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i seriously don't even know what to say about "overkicking" in practice

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by Liver, Jan 27, 2011.

  1. Liver

    Liver modded mod Club Member Junta Member

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    a. i hate the ****ing riddler. if incompetence at coaching special teams was an olympic sport, he'd be the dope smoking swimmer with 4 jillion medals.

    b. i hate most kickers. overkicking? seriously? really? what's next? a torn acl from a celebratory leap?

    c. mason crosby is a Buff. the thought of him helping us out is great.

    everytime i think i am over it, i read some article like this one.
     
  2. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    Yes you do liver it can be summed up very easily
    :rolling_eyes:
     
  3. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    Overkicking is like "dead arm" in pitching. If you overdo it, there's a point at which nothing gets better without a lot of rest. Kicks start going short, wild, inconsistent.

    Some of the pro kickers are now taking a very minimalist approach: they kick 12-15 times with perfect form at a practice, and that's it. They're done.
    The body (muscle memory) remembers how to kick perfectly the next time it's called to do so.

    You build strength in the gym, not repetitive motion of kicking.
     
  4. cutaekwondo

    cutaekwondo Member

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    :iagree:
     
  5. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    I wasn't aware of the over kicking, but I thought the QBs threw way too much in practice. They ran some drills where the QBs were just hucking as far downfield as they could over and over again. The only possible outcome I could imagine was Dan felt Cody would be the last guy standing...
     
  6. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    Some of the extreme practice overkicking I heard about happened when Goodman was out of commission in anticipation of, and recovery from, hip surgery. That meant the last two guys in the spring. Kirkwood and Grossnickle, were doing all the kicking and punting, both their own required practice, and then kick return and punt return practice for the guys who were competing for those spots. Some of this was what the coaches wanted, and some was because other players would ask Grossnickle to stay after practice and kick or punt to them for extra reps. (Castor and Freiberg weren't on campus yet in the spring.) Grossnickle was the only guy punting - most of the time - but he was also kicking off, and kicking field goals every day for several hours.

    After one of the scrimmages in Folsom, when Kirkwood and Grossnickle didn't make all their kicks, I watched firsthand as a furious Riddle called them back to the field after practice/scrimmage and had them continue kicking. So I stood near Dal Ward and watched them as the sun went down, with the kicks getting more erratic and shorter as minutes passed.

    Simply made no sense if you understood their scrimmage performance sucked due to tired legs, then how would they improve by kicking more right then? Instead, it cements bad habits by practicing when your body doesn't have anything left to give. Guys will start twisting their upper bodies, or tilting their hips, shifting weight, compensating one body motion for another, anything to try to improve and get the kick up ... but those motions do not help them --- they are bad habits to practice, and hard habits to shake. (Back injuries are a common side effect of over-kicking in practice - makes sense when you think about it.)

    Grossnickle started out in the first spring scrimmage a year ago going 4 for 4 on Field Goals, --- (March 2010 ONE FOOT, TWO JOBS?... Grossnickle made all four of his field goal attempts (32, 24, 38, 32) ...) --- then as the spring progressed, he slowly got worse. Eventually, they pulled him off kicking and made him the punter 100% of the time. Goodman didn't participate in the overkicking practices as he was injured/out for surgery most of the spring and summer. Since he was limited in the amount of practice upon his return from hip surgery, it could have made him look stronger in practice than the guys who were kicking their ... legs ... off. Maybe.
     
  7. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    This would also explain why Goodman's kickoffs got shorter as the season progressed. As he added strength from his hip surgery recovery, this should have been going in the other direction.
     
  8. BinaryBuff

    BinaryBuff mmmm...beer Club Member

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    What kind of clinic would the Riddler run then? A "How to trash your kicker" clinic?
     
  9. Burrito Palazzo

    Burrito Palazzo huff my smug Club Member

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    Don't even get me started on "overjacking". Although I have used the "dead-arm" before.
     
  10. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

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    You guys really misunderstand the Riddler clinic commnet. Hawk didn't mean the Riddler could put on a clinic, he meant the Riddler would put his kickers ina clinic.
     
  11. Darian3Hagan

    Darian3Hagan '89 Player of the Year Club Member

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    I cant believe they let those band of idots coach here for 5years. I blame DBT.
     
  12. CUFan

    CUFan Welcome back Club Member

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    Don't you remember that the most important thing is to have success in practice? Wouldn't we have been National Champs if we played every game on Tuesday?
     
  13. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    We remain undefeated on Tuesdays, pretty sure of that stat.
     
  14. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

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    I know I'll be disappointed if I don't see a story about how the team is stronger than ever come March, and how they knocked their GPA's out of the park...those are the things that make me want to buy tickets.
     
  15. buffalo30

    buffalo30 Active Member

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    Alferd has it right. Overkicking develops a tired and sore leg. The worse it gets the worse the attempts get to compensate for the weakness by changing technique. Changing technique combined with weakness... well you get the picture.

    As an aside, I once saw a high school fastpitch coach have his catcher repetitively throw down to second over and over in a ridiculous attempt to get her to throw more accurately. Eventually her throws got past the pitching circle and rolled to 2nd base. She developed a sore arm that she never recovered from and the coach had to replace her for the rest of the season with a less accomplished player. It was a disgrace. My daughter was the team's pitcher and she was thoroughly aggravated because the girl who got the sore arm knew how to call a game and was a better receiver. The whole thing made it harder for her and the entire team. This is what can happen when fools are let loose on athletes. Overworking someone is not going to make them better. When you are tired, stop and rest. (An interesting thing about fastpitch underhanded throwing is that the technique allows pitchers to throw game after game. This is unlike overhand throwing. My daughter once threw 5 games over 2 days in a tournament and did not develop a sore arm.)
     
    AlferdJasper likes this.
  16. Buffarino

    Buffarino Math - how does it work? Club Member

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    That's called the Stranger.
     
  17. Burrito Palazzo

    Burrito Palazzo huff my smug Club Member

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    No, I know that arm intimately.
     
  18. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

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    I asst. coached a little league team this summer and fall. I learned a lot from the head coaches who knew a ton more than I did. It gave me a new perspective on things. But as I hear stories like what AJ said about the Riddler having the guys overkick, I just shake my head and wonder how in the world the Riddler has gotten where he is...
     
  19. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    The sad thing is, it was not just the kickers that were bad during Riddle's time here. We were really bad in all phases of special teams at one time or another. I'm still amazed that Jason Espinoza was seemingly the only player on the entire freaking team that could return punts in 2009.

    But it starts at the top. I never believed Hawkins valued field position, a natural extension of good special teams play. I never understood the risks he took with field position, considering we were never stellar on either offense or defense during his time here.
     
  20. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    :yeahthat:

    Agree 100%. Hawk had no appreciation whatsoever for the value of special teams. None.
     
  21. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

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    Excellent observation
     
  22. BlackNGold

    BlackNGold Club Member Club Member

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    It is amazing how unbelievably bad the coaching has been the last 5 years. People forget that Matt DiLallo was a unanimous freshman all-american punter at one time. His stats got worse each year. It is really sad. Just like burning the frosh kickers redshirt this year (Justin Castor) for one attempt. As time goes by we see that Hawkins leadership of the program was abysmal.
     
  23. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    Not only did they burn the true frosh's shirt for a single kick, there were two other kickers (one a junior) besides Goodman who could have kicked instead. It was ludicrous.
     
  24. BuffNut99

    BuffNut99 Club Member Club Member

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    Can we assume that Espinioza was "over-returned" in 2009?
     
  25. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    Wasn't that one attempt a PAT? Or am I thinking of something else?

    Truly amazing how completely incompetent Hawk and company were. But hey, he was doing it the right way. He was getting his horns out and doing the little things. If you don't take risks in life, you don't have any idea what you're talking about.
     
  26. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

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    fify.
     
  27. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    You are probably thinking if the second kicking travesty, IMO. After benching Goodman for about 3 seconds, and throwing an unprepared freshman out there for a single field goal attempt the previous week, Riddle was asked who would be starting kicker the next week against Baylor. He responded that there would be (as usual) a week-long competition for starting kicker.

    Less than an hour later, in a press conference, Hawkins stated that Marcus Kirkwood would be the starter, which took both Riddle and Kirkwood by surprise. The following week, Kirkwood was made available for media interviews, was videotaped for a profile on cubuffs.com, and acknowledged as the starting kicker after sitting on the bench for a year and a half behind Goodman.

    Finally, the game arrives, and it's Marcus Kirkwood shown as starting placekicker on the jumbotron before the game for the first time. We score a touchdown, and Kirkwood trots out to make the extra point. But what's this? He's standing there bewildered as Cody throws an attempted two-point conversion, which failed. Kirkwood has no idea that this is coming, and is on the field looking around trying to decipher what happened.

    Okay. Trick play on the xp and they forgot to tell the kicker. Oops. What happened next? Goodman went back in for the rest of the game. The entire week-long build up was BS. Kirkwood never saw the field again in 2010 - and you can hardly blame it on his game-time performance, he didn't get a chance to show us whether or not he could make the kick.

    After the game, Kensler posted this:
     
  28. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    AJ -I hate you. That post just sent my blood pressure up about 50 points. I try to forget stuff like this. To put it out of my conscious memory. And then you do this. Bad man. BAD.
     
  29. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    Sorry man. I simply followed this with great detail because it was so surreal. There wasn't a specialist on the team that was treated correctly.

    I'm surprised that Kirkwood didn't just pack his backpack and leave after that, I'm NOT surprised that Castor is going to be a little skittish the next time he sees the field (once you burn his shirt, IMO, you commit to playing him as least some the rest of the year.) I don't know what to think about the punter and snapper. It's a total mess and I don't envy Embree and Brookhart trying to figure out what actually they have on the roster and what they need -- with absolutely no sense last year in the way kids were played.
     
  30. BlackNGold

    BlackNGold Club Member Club Member

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    I cannot believe people defended Hawkins in the past couple of years. He was beyond incompetent....
     

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