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Is it coaching or is it the players?

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by canbuff, Sep 14, 2009.

  1. canbuff

    canbuff New Member

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    Ever since Hawk has been coach here he has ALWAYS used the excuse...it's the little thing, missed assignments, he'll play the players that know the playbook the best, etc...

    So is it the coaches fault that these 'excuses' continue to be raised or is it the players?

    CU is supposed to be one of the tougher schools to get in academically, yet, it seems sooo many players take such a long time to 'get up to speed' (ie. Scott, Simmons, Perkins, Polk) and it seems that the players, especially o-line and defence, keep missing assignments. Is this the players fault or is it the coaches.

    Other schools, even supposed weaker ones like CSU, and Toledo seem to be able to coach their players up within the same time frame that CU has.

    What are our coaches doing?

    You cant tell me Simmons is sooo dense that he cant run 3/4 of the plays properly by now. Or that Scott cant pick up blitzes almost as well as Sumler by now. I am not sure what the coaches are doing or what they are looking for...but it makes no sense that it takes our players soo long to learn the playbook adequately.
     
  2. west coast

    west coast Guest

    good question, but he recruited the players. if you look at guys individually sure, they work hard, run good routes but their not big enough, not fast enough. combine that with a qb that's the same (and im a cody fan) there's just no way we can compete. Bob Davie's comments on the sideline said it all, sthing like-"i'm very suprised at the talent differential between toledo and cu, you would think a big 12 team would be better" and he's being as PC as he could be. what he really means is holy @##$# !
     
  3. Buff fanatic

    Buff fanatic Well-Known Member

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    I agree....think its got to be put on the coach's. If the "excuse" is that the players are young and green, its the highly paid staff's job to get them ready or get someone in there who can be ready. No dice so far. Its' ultimately all on the coach's, IMHO.
     
  4. canbuff

    canbuff New Member

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    I call bullShat on that. We have had better recruiting classes than both CSU and Toledo every year. It's not like the players all of a sudden got smaller, weaker and slower once they got here. I think the players arent playing fast or confident because they just dont know what they are supposed to do and they arent allowed to get into game flow because of the constant subbing. They are thinking the game instead of just playing it. The seem lost and that will kill your confidence which will make you play slow and passive.

    THIS IS ON THE COACHES!!!!! For some reason they cannot transfer what they want the players to do into coaching the players how to do it. I think alot of that has to do with the stupid 'groupings' and 'finding a role for everybody'.
     
  5. PhillyBuff

    PhillyBuff Club Member Club Member

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    Can Buff.... our football resembles the CFL now doesn't it eh?
     
  6. CUwhit21

    CUwhit21 Club Member Club Member

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    Everything that happens with this football team is ultimately the responsbility of the coaches.
     
  7. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

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    Honestly? I haven't a clue. It does make me wonder that first year and second year coaches can install a system and have players execute it with some regularity, without "groupings". Hawk and staff are still having a bushel basketful of blown assignments in year four with "groupings"...draw your own conclusions.
     
  8. dio

    dio Admin Club Member Junta Member

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    coaching coaching coaching
     
  9. Coloradosker

    Coloradosker Active Member

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    It's all about the coaching. Numbers don't lie and your players didn't all of a sudden get slower or less athletic. They look like it against better coached teams. NU did the same during their debacle. Get the right coaches that put them in the right positions and they will be able to compete.
     
    Wyo Buff likes this.
  10. canbuff

    canbuff New Member

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    C'mon Y'ALL dont dis the CFL now! The CFL is a good game that is fast and has lots of former college stars. It's not like they became bad football players when they came to the CFL. I do like the NFL better but the CFL is still good football.:thumbsup:
     
  11. CUBuff98

    CUBuff98 Club Member Club Member

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    +1 for the coaching staff being responsible for our pathetic performances thus far.

    Its not the kids... Its the coaches that are not TEACHING them the skills needed to win. One example would be our weak attempts at tackling. Plus, IMHO, the coaches are not playing their best players - particularly at QB, but several other positions as well.
     
  12. Buffsfan09

    Buffsfan09 Member

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    Both...coaching and players...I say 70-30...it's not all on the coaches. True, they are the ones who recruit the players...but we don't have the talent and the talent we do have is overestimated. It's going to be like this for a while until we can get some real buzz and attract top talent or relax standards. Look at the top 3 teams in the country right now...Florida, Texas, Southern Cal....now name the top 3 states for college football recruiting...there is a parallel....not even Notre Dame can compete like they used to...they get some good classes with a new coach and eventually they will have a good year or two...but I'm not sure it's sustainable....I hope it is...would give us something to look forward to.
     
  13. BlackNGold

    BlackNGold Club Member Club Member

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    It is coaching...CU looked slow because very few were hustling. I do not believe that CSU has better team speed than CU but they were swarming to the ball. I saw little of that type of effort from CU.

    I think a strange culture has been built on the CU football team.
     
  14. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    Coaching. No motivation, no confidence, no belief, no hope.
     
  15. CUwhit21

    CUwhit21 Club Member Club Member

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    System is too complex. The players are over thinking everything.

    Simplify, simplify, simplify..

    I'd rather see us lose with our best athletes in a simple system then in a complex system with our 3rd or 4th best athletes.
     
  16. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

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    I'm not saying the talent level is where I'd like it to be. But is our talent level that much less than CSU or Toledo? **** no. We've got two problems - the main one is that the most talented players aren't always seeing the field. The other is that guys are playing below their talent level when they do get on the field. Somebody said after the Toledo game that Scott looked slow. He isn't slow, that's proven, so why does he look that way? Why do the defensive backs look so flat footed? Something is off.

    And for those of us who remember how Barnett was lambasted on a weekly basis for "blaming the players", it's a little strange to hear Hawk talk about how the players need to "fix the little things" (in other words, execute better) and Bohn talk about how they need more time to turn things around (in other words, get more talent...) and nobody says anything...
     
  17. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    This is the most obvious thing. If you can't teach it in 4 years, you either a) have an overly complex system (*cough* callahan *cough*) or just suck at coaching it (*cough* callahan *cough*)....
     
  18. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

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    I would have figured you would have said Cody's lack of arm strength...:smile2:
     
  19. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    :lol:

    No, its obviously the wrong type of visor. They have a Nike visor. Now, if they switched to an Oakley tinted visor, I think you would see this team really get their horns out and run off 8 or 9 wins... :wink2:
     
  20. BuffLuKe

    BuffLuKe Club Member Club Member

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    I think about 95% of it is coaching. However, coaches cant make the tackle for you. Geez, have some balls and come up and tackle through somebody. Please stop the titty bumping and arm tackling. It is the coaches responsibility to correct this tho. I hope they are hitting alot at practice this week.
     
  21. Denver_sc

    Denver_sc Club Member Club Member

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    This.

    I recall something that my coaches once told me; in effect, a "trick play" was not working, and they told me that the "trick" won't work on a player who hasn't been properly coached. Instead of following the pulling guard, he was more likely to sit in the gap where the running back was going.

    It seems like Hawk's system has nuances that are beyond the college level. For instance, neither Toledo or CSU was shifting their D to respond to our O's shifts. All it did was give the D extra time to rest and eat up the playclock. Worse, this seems to be confusing the members of the offense, as it seems that every freaking play Cody has to tell a back or WR what to do. I'm sure that the actual plays are similar.

    Keep It Simple, Stupid!
     
  22. BuffNut99

    BuffNut99 Club Member Club Member

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    I agree 100%. Add to that major confidence issues and you give up 600 yards to Toledo. What I would like to see this year, sooner than later I hope, is Hawk (since we're going to have to live with him) abandoning this grouping crap and just get the best players on the field, subbing them when they need a blow. I'd like to see the talented youth that we have get solid reps. We can still get something out of this year (see years 1986, 1997, 2000).

    Oh, and I never want to see Smart or Sipili try and cover a receiver again.
     
  23. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    I do not believe that Hawk is all bad or that all is lost. That said unless Hawk makes some major changes this program is dead in the water with him.

    The first thing Hawk has to do is look in the mirror and apply what he has been telling his players to himself.

    He has to put the team first and his ego second, that means being willing to admit that what worked in the WAC doesn't neccessarily work when you are playing Big XII quality competition or playing teams that look at a game against a Big XII school as an opportunity for recognition. It means that when you have individual players who have superior talent compared to others you figure out how to get them on the field, not on the bench watching the effort guys lose. His job is to motivate the best players to perform, not bench them in favor of guys who lack the talent to win.

    He has to figure out that some of his schemes and ideas that worked against WAC competition don't work and make adjustments to compete at this level.

    He has to figure out that no matter how good a friend some of his assistants are if they are not doing the job they will be taken advantage of by the competition. If they aren't getting it done he needs to either motivate them to do so or replace them with someone who will.

    He needs to figure out that this is big boy football. He can either grow into it and the responsibility involved or he can go back to a level where he succeeded.

    I agree that we are young and inexperienced. That argument works against more talented experienced teams. There is no excuse however for losing to teams that clearly are not on our level and losing for reasons that coaching could fix.

    Time for Hawk to grow into the job or leave it to someone who will. He talks about responsibility, now it is on him. If we were losing for simple mistakes attributable to the youth and inexperience that would be one thing, when we are losing because players are not prepared and coach are making bad decisions then it is something else. When a player is beat because the guy is more experienced or more physically mature that is understandable, when a guy is beat because he is not motivated to put out the full effort or a better player is on the bench because some coach thinks he is smarter than everyone else that is not acceptable.
     
  24. Liver

    Liver modded mod Club Member Junta Member

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    it is coaching.

    ask yourself this question, honestly... if barnett and his staff had this group of players, would the w/l total be better or worse than hawk and company?

    hmmm?

    hawk has done some good things for CU. he's helped improve the perception of the program; he's improved recruiting (altho it doesn't seem to be showing); and he's been a good ambassador and all that.

    but, he and his staff are over their heads on the actual coaching front, imho.

    it is all very disappointing.
     
  25. NW Buff

    NW Buff Club Member Club Member

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    This would make sense to me if Hawkins came from the NFL like Callahan did but he came from Boise State. So you are telling me that players at Boise can somehow pick up the system being used and the players at Colorado cannot? Or are you saying that he's somehow completely changed his coaching philosophy and made everything much more complex?

    I have no clue what's going on at this point. Lack of player evaluation. Lack of coaching. Unwillingness to put the best players on the field (for whatever reason). I'm just tired of it.
     
  26. Wyo Buff

    Wyo Buff Club Member Club Member

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    ****e rolls downhill.
     

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