Larry Scott & the Pac-12 need to do something

[Gary Indiana]

I realize I am in the minority here, and that's fine, but I like the PAC's approach. The conference does a great job of staying competitive on the national landscape; while not compromising the academic side, marginalizing non-revenue sports, and keeping conference rivalries and traditions alive. That's all very important to me in an institution, I don't want CU and our conference mates to be reduced to a farm system for the NBA and NFL. I'm probably naive on the subject, but that's my two cents.

 

[Not Sure]

I realize I am in the minority here, and that's fine, but I like the PAC's approach. The conference does a great job of staying competitive on the national landscape; while not compromising the academic side, marginalizing non-revenue sports, and keeping conference rivalries and traditions alive. That's all very important to me in an institution, I don't want CU and our conference mates to be reduced to a farm system for the NBA and NFL. I'm probably naive on the subject, but that's my two cents.

I can totally respect this. I have a hard time disagreeing.

 

[Buffs35]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nca...-immediately/ar-BBKiQWg?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=ientp

His biggest contribution is adding a fledgling Big 12 school that wanted out, and a Wac school. Think about that.

Dude has no vision, and is completely incompetent. Should have been fired years ago. But don't worry, if you live west of Denver, and if you don't like watching sports in bars, you can enjoy replays of women's softball this weekend.

 

[Alfred91]

Is Chuck Neinas available?

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Will be interesting to see how the conference rebounds in basketball. Lost 6 first round draft picks and 7 in the top 35 last year but there is no excuse for downturns at UCLA and Arizona, those schools recruit well enough every year to maintain. The conference needs Arizona and UCLA to get back to being top 15 every year but where is was really hurt this year is in the middle. Washington, Stanford, Oregon and Cal just have to be better, plain and simple. Those schools were hurt by coaching changes, draft picks, etc. but it was a bad year. No school located in the bay area should ever finish last in the conference like Cal did.

I saw a Tweet last night that said Arizona is going to lose its entire starting 5 and they have no recruits currently committed. I don’t keep up w hoops as much but if true, I wonder if Arizona is going to stay at the level they’re accustomed to

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I realize I am in the minority here, and that's fine, but I like the PAC's approach. The conference does a great job of staying competitive on the national landscape; while not compromising the academic side, marginalizing non-revenue sports, and keeping conference rivalries and traditions alive. That's all very important to me in an institution, I don't want CU and our conference mates to be reduced to a farm system for the NBA and NFL. I'm probably naive on the subject, but that's my two cents.

Is the Pac really competitive on the national landscape, though? I feel like this thread was born out of the contrary w hoops being awful, to go along with a horrible bowl season in football. Also, liking the “academic integrity” of the conference is fine, but has nothing to do with being able to have high level athletics. I also disagree w the non-revenue sports side. I don’t have anything original on the topic to say, but their existence is a complete by product of football/basketball revenue, so it’s a little counter productive to not want to marginalize those sports in the name of boosting the revenue generating sports that support them.

 

[Buffnik]

I realize I am in the minority here, and that's fine, but I like the PAC's approach. The conference does a great job of staying competitive on the national landscape; while not compromising the academic side, marginalizing non-revenue sports, and keeping conference rivalries and traditions alive. That's all very important to me in an institution, I don't want CU and our conference mates to be reduced to a farm system for the NBA and NFL. I'm probably naive on the subject, but that's my two cents.

Except that a television network and licensing agreements are business deals, not academic pursuits. If you're going to be a commercial enterprise, you have to prioritize what has the largest audience and makes the money. The focus must be on the consumer, not some idealistic utopian dream where swimming & diving is just as important as football.

 

[Gary Indiana]

Is the Pac really competitive on the national landscape, though? I feel like this thread was born out of the contrary w hoops being awful, to go along with a horrible bowl season in football. Also, liking the “academic integrity” of the conference is fine, but has nothing to do with being able to have high level athletics. I also disagree w the non-revenue sports side. I don’t have anything original on the topic to say, but their existence is a complete by product of football/basketball revenue, so it’s a little counter productive to not want to marginalize those sports in the name of boosting the revenue generating sports that support them.

Yes, the Pac is competitive on the national level, don't let the letdown of 2018 paint the picture. Last year UCLA, Oregon, and Arizona were all in the Sweet 16. Washington was one of the final four teams in the CFP recently. Take a look at the where the QBs drafted to the NFL this year will come from.

My academic integrity remark was based around the Pac doing a better job to make sure that SAs for all sports are getting a well rounded experience.

To your last point about revenue sports, I absolutely get that FB and Bball drive the bus, but they are making money hand over fist and if a university is fiscally responsible, the Olympic sports can still thrive without constant expansion and damage to the member institutions of a conference.

 

[MtnBuff]

Yes, the Pac is competitive on the national lever, don't let the letdown of 2018 paint the picture. Last year UCLA, Oregon, and Arizona were all in the Sweet 16. Washington was one of the final four teams in the CFP recently. Take a look at the where the QBs drafted to the NFL this year will come from.

My academic integrity remark was based around the Pac doing a better job to make sure that SAs for all sports are getting a well rounded experience.

To your last point about revenue sports, I absolutely get that FB and Bball drive the bus, but they are making money hand over fist and if a university is fiscally responsible, the Olympic sports can still thrive without constant expansion and damage to the member institutions of a conference.

Wasn't to many years back when everyone was talking about the utter failure of the Big Ten in football and basketball. These things go in cycles.

The PAC does have some disadvantages, principle among them being that unlike the SEC, the Big 12, and the Big 10 the PAC does not have the same level of fanaticism backing it members. In those other conferences there are a number of schools that are "the" athletic focus of their state or area. The level of fan commitment and support in the PAC is much lower.

The PAC schools will never have the kind of cultural significance as you see in places like Nebraska, Alabama, Oklahoma, Texas, Ohio for their college programs but some of the suggestions earlier in the thread in terms of scheduling and media access would help.

Right here in Colorado we have a football program that acts like it doesn't want the fans to care during Spring Practices.

 

[Buffs35]

Yes, the Pac is competitive on the national level (unless you look at things like revenue and national exposure), don't let the letdown of 2018 paint the picture.
.

FIFY

 

[CarolinaBuff]

Except that a television network and licensing agreements are business deals, not academic pursuits. If you're going to be a commercial enterprise, you have to prioritize what has the largest audience and makes the money. The focus must be on the consumer, not some idealistic utopian dream where swimming & diving is just as important as football.

The Pac's success in all those non-revenue sports is cute and all but the reality is nobody gives a **** and those sports do absolutely nothing for the visibility and notoriety of the conference.

 

[PAC MAN]

Is Dan Beebe available?

Fixed for ya.

 

[Buffs35]

Except that a television network and licensing agreements are business deals, not academic pursuits. If you're going to be a commercial enterprise, you have to prioritize what has the largest audience and makes the money. The focus must be on the consumer, not some idealistic utopian dream where swimming & diving is just as important as football.

Nothing to add. Just needed to be said, and read again. perfect.

 

[Bufffan68]

Thread title change: The PAC 12 needs to do something about Larry Scott

 

[torero]

Pac-12 should probably add UMBC.

 

[skibum]

I realize I am in the minority here, and that's fine, but I like the PAC's approach. The conference does a great job of staying competitive on the national landscape; while not compromising the academic side, marginalizing non-revenue sports, and keeping conference rivalries and traditions alive. That's all very important to me in an institution, I don't want CU and our conference mates to be reduced to a farm system for the NBA and NFL. I'm probably naive on the subject, but that's my two cents.

These things are not mutually exclusive. It is actually possible to walk and chew bubble gum at the same time, despite what the the SEC says.

 

[Duff Man]

Restructuring PACN to start. Revenue issue is almost entirely due to PACN, not the ESPN/FoxSports deal. Streamline, develop apps, have most Olympic sport coverage student-produced like B1G, etc.

I’d also spread games out with strategic scheduling for football and MBB. Football to get games staggered so every game is either national or PACN - even if that means weekly PACN games on Thu & Fri nights. But plan byes so it is fair.

With MBB, be willing to play on Mon & Tue. No reason not to for the 2 rivalry games each team has in conference play when there’s only 1 game that week.

Create “events”. Signing Days, feature games for Olympic sports, etc. Add eSports with campus competitions.

Scheduling alliances with other conferences.

Consider adding BYU for every sport other than football right now. See if UNLV, Boise State, SDSU and New Mexico would be interested in that. Look hard at Houston as a 13th member with BYU having a Notre Dame situation with a FB scheduling alliance (or just go full BYU membership).

See what it would take to get PACN on Mexican and Canadian cable networks. (B1G is in Canada.)

Improve bowl tie ins.

Move corporate HQ to Vegas or Phoenix for cost savings.

Direct officiating to allow a more physical style of play in FB and MBB.

Your second to last idea needs to happen ASAP. More money could flow to schools with that move alone.

 

[BlackNGold]

Why is the PAC 12 not doing well on the court or on the field? Is the PAC not recruiting as well? What are the opinions?

 

[Buffnik]

Why is the PAC 12 not doing well on the court or on the field? Is the PAC not recruiting as well? What are the opinions?

Doesn't seem to be a talent issue if we look at NFL and NBA drafts. I think there may be a coaching deficit tied to budget differences. For example, B1G looked like it was a mess in football not too long ago. But then they were able to hire some of the top HCs in the game and surround them with staffs that are at the top of the pay scale. SEC was kind of a joke in MBB, but then they were able to parlay their revenues into making a bunch of splash hires for hoops. All of a sudden they're right there among the best basketball conferences. How many elite basketball coaches are in the Pac-12? How many elite football coaches are in the Pac-12? How many Pac-12 coordinators are considered elite?

 

[BuffNut]

Pac 12 Officiating breeds soft teams that can't bang with the others. I would bet teams get complacent with expecting to get to the line more, and when don't are too late to adjust...just seems like the shoot more FTs during season but could be wrong.

 

[Buffnik]

Pac 12 Officiating breeds soft teams that can't bang with the others. I would bet teams get complacent with expecting to get to the line more, and when don't are too late to adjust...just seems like the shoot more FTs during season but could be wrong.

It's not the number of FTs. Players adjust to how the game is being called. It's that so little contact is allowed that it becomes ingrained that basketball is not a contact sport when it actually is.

 

[ahoelsken]

Doesn't seem to be a talent issue if we look at NFL and NBA drafts. I think there may be a coaching deficit tied to budget differences. For example, B1G looked like it was a mess in football not too long ago. But then they were able to hire some of the top HCs in the game and surround them with staffs that are at the top of the pay scale. SEC was kind of a joke in MBB, but then they were able to parlay their revenues into making a bunch of splash hires for hoops. All of a sudden they're right there among the best basketball conferences. How many elite basketball coaches are in the Pac-12? How many elite football coaches are in the Pac-12? How many Pac-12 coordinators are considered elite?

How many elite coaches do we have? Define elite. There are only four active coaches in football with national championships. Would you say Peterson is elite? I think he'll win a title before he leaves Washington. Shaw? Probably not. Kelly?

 

[ahoelsken]

It's not the number of FTs. Players adjust to how the game is being called. It's that so little contact is allowed that it becomes ingrained that basketball is not a contact sport when it actually is.

Its not just the Pac 12-its this part of the country. We share officials with the Big Sky, WCC, and MWC. There's a reason why Gonzaga is the only program west of the Rockies who is still playing basketball right now (with all due respect to the five or whatever teams we still have left in the NIT.......which Larry will probably tout as some sort of accomplishment soon

 

[BlackNGold]

Doesn't seem to be a talent issue if we look at NFL and NBA drafts. I think there may be a coaching deficit tied to budget differences. For example, B1G looked like it was a mess in football not too long ago. But then they were able to hire some of the top HCs in the game and surround them with staffs that are at the top of the pay scale. SEC was kind of a joke in MBB, but then they were able to parlay their revenues into making a bunch of splash hires for hoops. All of a sudden they're right there among the best basketball conferences. How many elite basketball coaches are in the Pac-12? How many elite football coaches are in the Pac-12? How many Pac-12 coordinators are considered elite?

Do you think it is just money or poor leadership from most ADs in the conference? I look at ASU firing Todd Graham whose buyout was reported to be over $10 million and then replace him with a surprising hire like Herm Edwards - that is a lot of money to waste. There has been a lot of turn over in ADs in the PAC 12 and many of them do not appear to be that good.

 

[onealcd]

Doesn't seem to be a talent issue if we look at NFL and NBA drafts. I think there may be a coaching deficit tied to budget differences. For example, B1G looked like it was a mess in football not too long ago. But then they were able to hire some of the top HCs in the game and surround them with staffs that are at the top of the pay scale. SEC was kind of a joke in MBB, but then they were able to parlay their revenues into making a bunch of splash hires for hoops. All of a sudden they're right there among the best basketball conferences. How many elite basketball coaches are in the Pac-12? How many elite football coaches are in the Pac-12? How many Pac-12 coordinators are considered elite?

I don't necessarily agree on the head coach thing. Shaw, Peterson, Kelly and Wittingham is a pretty damn impressive first group when you consider the top program in the conference hired an interim guy. Basketball is a totally different story though, you just can't have two programs like UCLA and Cal hiring the guys they currently have, if those two were elite coaches as they should be 85% of the time that is going to drastically change things.

 

[cu3x]

BB officiating should be interesting next year. I think the refs have always favored the 'established' teams over CU. Next year, the league is going to need to finish better and get teams into the postseason. So maybe CU keeps getting hammered, at the expense of favorites like UCLA and az or maybe CU is one of the better teams and gets some breaks.

 

[BuffNut]

BB officiating should be interesting next year. I think the refs have always favored the 'established' teams over CU. Next year, the league is going to need to finish better and get teams into the postseason. So maybe CU keeps getting hammered, at the expense of favorites like UCLA and az or maybe CU is one of the better teams and gets some breaks.

Certainly always a possibility the refs play favorites, but I think they need to stop calling the ticky tack crap and let them all fight and ball more. Need to toughen them up for post season play. Sure players can adjust to how game is being officiated, but a full season of crap officiating sinks in and is harder to adjust from in a 1 game tourney when you don't make it out of the 1st round.

 

[CUFan]

I think it is as simple as football is just not as important to most PAC fan bases and even some schools as it is to Big 12, Big 10 and SEC. Not a whole lot you can do about that. I think everyone knew the PAC was inferior in that regard when we joined. We just felt like we were more closely aligned with that type of thinking and fan base. While I do think Larry Scott has made some mistakes with the PAC network, I don't think anyone can completely overcome the inherent disadvantages of the PAC conference.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I think it is as simple as football is just not as important to most PAC fan bases and even some schools as it is to Big 12, Big 10 and SEC. Not a whole lot you can do about that. I think everyone knew the PAC was inferior in that regard when we joined. We just felt like we were more closely aligned with that type of thinking and fan base. While I do think Larry Scott has made some mistakes with the PAC network, I don't think anyone can completely overcome the inherent disadvantages of the PAC conference.

I agree. The Pac states are filled with more transplants than Big 12, Big 10 and SEC country**, so by nature, the "give a ****" level for the Pac schools and having the P12 Network part of TV subscriptions is pretty low. Add to that the fact that the majority of the people raised in CA, CO, WA, OR, AZ and UT just aren't even close to the level of die hard fan as the SEC, Big 12, and Big 10 country. This is why adding Boise State, CSU, UNLV, New Mexico, etc doesn't move the needle. More places where the people simply don't give a ****. Add Houston, OU, OSU, etc and then we can talk.

 

[Buffs35]

So we should accept failure at the top because his job is harder than others?

BTW, German soccer has greater distribution in America than Pac-12 football.

Pac-12 schools earn tens of millions less than contemporaries.

But don't worry, gold starts for everyone. Somebody pass the juice box.