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"Mac gets the culture at CU and Boulder"

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by Mick Ronson, Nov 17, 2010.

  1. Mick Ronson

    Mick Ronson Well-Known Member

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    i don't expect this to be popular, but it's been nagging at me....so: Mac gets the culture at CU and Boulder.

    this is a refrain i keep seeing. i've lived in Boulder for almost 16 years straight and more than half of my life. I've been on campus 3-4 times a week as a grad student or employed since 1997. i was around the campus, Boulder, or in Colorado (the Springs) when Mac was here. Mac was a controversial figure. He had players getting in trouble (it's just true), his famous comment about homosexuality being "against God", the situation with Sal and his daughter among others which it's not for me to judge but it makes pretty flashy, inflammatory press....to say that "Mac got CU and Boulder" then....seems a little stretched or a selective interpretation to me.

    It's one thing to agree with Mac, to think he knows what it takes to win at CU with an uneven playing field vs. the Texas and USC's of the world because he's done it before, but to say that he's a "good fit" or ever was in a sense at CU is questionable to me.

    I'd also say the "culture" at CU and Boulder has changed a lot since 1990. It's still CU and it's still Boulder (and vastly more expensive to live here)...but to suggest that it's a constant that Mac can pick up right away....seems like bad, possibly lazy historical thinking.

    what's my point? I just see this statement a lot at AB and I think it's a little glossed over by nostalgia. If Dan Hawkins had the contestable public figure presence today that Mac had at CU in the late 80's and early 90's....I don't think people would call that "getting it".

    People can talk about Gordon Gee all they want, but I remember....there was open hostility between a lot of the student body and the team and student fans. CU football was pretty polarizing. You don't see anything like that today. Most kids/students are at worst ambivalent.

    You can blame it on the liberals or PC or Boulder fem-nazis or whatever...and I love Mac as much as anyone; but, to say Mac "got" CU is a contestable statement to me. not an a priori premise to accepted on faith or happy memories of the I-bone.

    Hire Mac and the homosexuality comment and even the scandal is going to come back full bore in our awesome local sports media who sets the tone for the national nimrods.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2010
  2. Darian3Hagan

    Darian3Hagan '89 Player of the Year Club Member

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    I think more importantly is CU gets Mac. Maybe he brought CU big time football and they werent ready for it at the time. After getting a seat at the big boy table and a little taste under Barnett I think CU is hungry for that again and will overlook everything else. Mac brought in serious talent (insert crazy 1994 40 times from TV broadcast here) and that always comes with some warts. I dont hear anyone talking about Lagarett Blount in Oregon.
     
  3. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    I love Mac and do not doubt that he would be successful. But I'm just not feelin' it for him. There are a lot of coaches our there who can figure out Boulder.
     
  4. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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    Not only has Boulder & CU changed since 1990 but the game of football has changed as well.
     
  5. Liver

    Liver modded mod Club Member Junta Member

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    Mac didn't have to worry about the culture in boulder, nor did he have to worry about being PC, at least not once he got things rolling.

    winning trumps everything. the various camps that were opposed to him had little to no power or voice as long as he had the team kicking ass on the field. this is a universal truth in big-time college sports.

    i direct your attention to gary barnett. barnett managed to survive (just barely) what was perhaps the worst ****storm in the history of college football. in his last year, he had the team at 7-2 and ranked in the top 20 and the school was talking extension with him. when the team then imploded, capped with the 70-3 beat-down, then gb could no longer hold off the wolves at the door. given the ****storm, his margin for error had eroded to next to nothing. but, had he won out that year (or even just done a bit better), then he would have received an extension.

    win enough and big enough and NOTHING else matters, as long as you can put a little makeup on the non-football related issues.
     
  6. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    Gordon Gee is gone, the culture is nothing like it was, his departure can not be over stated.
     
  7. CUFan

    CUFan Welcome back Club Member

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    The basic struggle between academics and athletics has not changed. If whoever is hired has the type of success Mac did, then the players and the program will walk on water again (for lack of a better phrase as it relates to Mac) creating a lot of the same issues now as we had then.

    However, if Mac is hired I do think he will be a more polarizing figure than some other coaching choices.
     
  8. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    I think the point of the "Mac gets the culture" comment is that the minute McCartney walks on campus, he knows exactly what he is in for OFF THE FOOTBALL FIELD.

    Everybody knows the problems CU faces ON THE FOOTBALL FIELD. But none of these outsiders has the first clue about what to expect OFF THE FIELD. There is a lot of politics that goes on behind the scenes at Colorado. You don't see it during the broadcasts on Saturdays, but it is there. Bill McCartney, as a former coach at Colorado, knows about those politics.
     
  9. CUBUFF80

    CUBUFF80 No Stinkin' Title Club Member

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    To echo some of the sentiments of this thread, Mac might get the culture in Boulder, but his personal "culture" has never meshed. More accurately, he gets the politics of CU and where the Athletic Department fits in the grand scheme.
     
  10. Del

    Del Member

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    I wish we could find and GET somebody that the majority of both the fanbase and the community/admin could get behind. It just doesn't seem like with our financial situation and the candidates out there that there is a clear guy who fits this bill.
     
  11. 96 Buff

    96 Buff Resident Commie Bastard Club Member Junta Member

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    Not really, but you keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.
     
  12. buffalo30

    buffalo30 Active Member

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    Do you mean there is no more blocking and tackling?
     
  13. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    No matter who the coach is there will always be a loud element in Boulder that resents the athletic program and especially the football program. In their fantasy world they believe that the money and attention that goes to football would magically go to them and others like them if football didn't exist. This is certainly far from reality but that doesn't stop them from trying everything they can to harm the program.

    Gordon Gee understood the value of the football program to the university and the community as a whole and actively resisted those who opposed it. We have lacked leadership with that same attitude since. I question how successful Mac would be without that administrative support present.

    I have nothing but the utmost respect for Mac and his willingness to stand up for his beliefs. Unfortunately I don't know that he would find another term as HC as welcoming. I don't oppose him as a bridge to a new administration such as E.B. or one of the other younger candidates but I don't see him as a long-term answer, especially in the climate he would face in Boulder.
     
  14. Mick Ronson

    Mick Ronson Well-Known Member

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    i guess ultimately, in a very roundabout way, what i would conclude is that Mac (or even EB) would be a polarizing figure in the grand-scheme more than a great uniting figure. as such, i don't think Bohn will put his job and career on the line for a "polarizing figure". it's too unpredictable....and, maybe that's why Calhoun is getting some play. he seems like a guy who can have fundamentally sound teams, put a new face and identity on CU football fro the Pac move and win 6-8 every year (hopefully). buys some time for Mike, solidifies his job security or desirability to make a move himself, and distances him from the Hawk disaster if only through time passing.
     
  15. WearRedBLoud

    WearRedBLoud New Member

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    I think, and this may sound a bit inflammatory as well; that to be successful, you are going to have instill your own culture in the football program, and the surrounding outlier of Boulder. I'm not trying to make this a political debate, as I belong to neither the Democratic or Republican side, but Boulder for as nice of a city as it is, sure could use a shot in the arm in some regards. Mac would be a good fit, even if it's just to groom Bienemy or Hagan as the HC like some have said.

    On a side not, I would not want to hear nor see some of Troy Calhoun's comments if he were to get hired in Boulder.
     
  16. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    CU does not have much of a donor pool, as it is --- but it is my opinion that donor pool would decrease dramatically if Troy Calhoun was named head coach. Former players, alums, etc. are not going to be excited / impressed with Calhoun. Just my opinion, I could be totally off base.
     
  17. UrbanaBuff

    UrbanaBuff Member

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    Funny how winning masks lots of other side issues, huh? Truth is Mac fits in more with Dopson and the Springs conservative crowd.
     
  18. ThndringHerd

    ThndringHerd Well-Known Member

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    Mac's not a Boulder guy. Never was. I suspect these other factors played into his decision to step down as much as anything else.

    The obstacles to winning at CU are more or less precisely what they were back then. Can't think of anyone who understands them better or has more experience overcoming them.

    My thinking is that Mac at least knows which trees the monkeys will be flinging poo from. He certainly 'gets' this part of the situation. I'm more worried about some thin-skinned wuss coming in from out of town and being caught unaware when the low blows start coming. Anyone who wins football games in Boulder better be wearing a flak jacket and a cup.
     
  19. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    You gusy are massivelty discounting how much things have changed in the 15 years Mac's been gone. Gordon Gee is one of the best leaders an athletics program can hope to have at a school. Now we have Benson.
     
  20. ThndringHerd

    ThndringHerd Well-Known Member

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    @absinthe

    :lol: You're right. It's definitely worse. Although really that slide started before Mac left.

    The more I think about it, we should probably forget about Bellotti. I think he'd probably bail after 2-3 yrs.

    You can bet Mac & GB have kept in touch, and Mac knows what he's up against. Which is why I'm really, really surprised that he would want to come back and fight those battles over again.

    Ideally we need a hire with a high enough media profile to get Benson ****canned if he won't support athletics. Problem is, he's conveniently weeded every one of those guys out beforehand with the salary restrictions.
     
  21. max4buffs

    max4buffs Well-Known Member

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    I think he means that it is just the little things. Its about adversity and teaching these kids a way to work through it. Touchdowns? Who cares about touchdowns. As long as you can learn a lesson every game it doesn't really matter if you win or lose. Hell, we can lose every game for 50 years as long as the kids learn something from it.
     
  22. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

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    Doesn't it feel that way a lot of the time?
     
  23. Liver

    Liver modded mod Club Member Junta Member

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    we could do a helluva lot worse than hiring a CU icon. maybe he isn't as dialed-in as he used to be on the state of the game. maybe he isn't PC enough. but, show me another coach with his resume who would come to boulder at a price we could afford.

    i want them to do a full search. i like many of the names being thrown out there in the rumor mill. but, i don't think Mac should be immediately overlooked because of his age, absence from the game, and his "fit" in boulder.

    he's a hall of fame caliber coach. i don't see a whole bunch more like him knocking on the door and especially not at a price we could actually afford.
     
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  24. Darian3Hagan

    Darian3Hagan '89 Player of the Year Club Member

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    great post
     
  25. Wyo Buff

    Wyo Buff Club Member Club Member

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    This is complete and utter bull****. Football has not changed fundamentally in 40 years. It is blocking and tackling, pure and simple. Every formation, every defense is simply a variation of concepts that have been recycled time and time again. McCartney know football, he knows motivation and he knows how to develop a vision and plan to execute his vision through incredibly organized practices and dedication to fundamentals. He is also a great administrator who knows and attracts the best coaching talent as well as the best recruiters. Also, he does not go out of his way to recruit "thugs." I am not going to waste my time studying the stats but I would wager that the number of football players who had brushes with the law during Mac's tenure was probably no more and no less than that of Neuheisel or Barnett.
     
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  26. Clean Undies

    Clean Undies Flagship of the 12-Pac Club Member

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    In my view, McCartney has atoned for most, but not all of his 90's era controversy.

    He quit coaching to be there for his daughter and his grandson.
    Both are grown and are at a place to live their own lives.

    He's publically commented that he'd handle the whole 5th down thing differently. He's come short of forfeiting the Mizzou game or recommending that Georgia Tech claim sole possession of the 1990 mNC, which is fine by me.

    His players were in SI for all the wrong reasons. Since then, he dedicated his life to promise keepers, focused on Christian male values that include leading a moral, upstanding life and taking responsibility for family and fatherhood.

    The one remaining flashpoint is his assertion that homosexuality is an abomination against God. He was quoting scripture and has not softened his view so far as I'm aware. This view is polarizing and will absolutely be revisited on campus and across the nation should he return as coach.

    From a PR perspective, he'd be wise to soften his position and then pledge to keep his trap shut regarding gay rights when representing the university.
     
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  27. buffalo30

    buffalo30 Active Member

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    Good stuff, Wyo Buff. Football fundamentals are still the same and I'm sure Coach Mac hasn't forgotten a thing about fundamentals. When blocking and tackling are eliminated from the game then football will change. You have nicely summarized Coach Mac's talents. He has these talents and he knows how to get a team to impose their will on an opponent. I'm pretty sure he hasn't forgotten any of these things.
     
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  28. HotRack

    HotRack Rez BubbleHead Club Member

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    Thanks to both of you for these posts. So, so, so TRUE! And if you really want to go a step further, take a look at the offense Mac installed right before the 1991 Blockbuster Bowl vs. Alabama and then used with Kordell. One could say that offense was the birth of spread offenses in college football. The game has passed Mac by? PUH - LEEZE!
     
  29. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    Ceal Barry is the assistant AD.

    Mac has no chance. None. Sadly.
     
  30. Darian3Hagan

    Darian3Hagan '89 Player of the Year Club Member

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    Ok what am I missing?
     

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