Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by bigdaddybuffs, Oct 24, 2012.
Awesome thread title.
Again with the talent excuse? Look, nobody is claiming that we should be challenging for conference supremacy here. Losing to CSU, Sac State and Fresno is not due to talent. How difficult is it to accept that?
This line or something similar gets thrown out a lot, that everyone's expectations were too high. No, I don't think anyone was expecting us to be racking up the wins, just don't lose to CSU, Sac St., and get blown out by Fresno. I don't think that was too much to ask.
That article really took a stand.
It's funny how quickly the narrative shifts with respect to both our conference switch and the Embree hire. When CU moved to Pac-12, it was being sold hard as a turning point for the program; now, the story has essentially become that we shouldn't expect to be anywhere but the absolute basement. The basement, that is, of the entire nation, not merely the conference. When CU hired Embree, we were sold repeatedly on recruiting prowess and emotional, effective game-day coaching that would get maximum performance out of the players. None of that is happening. Instead, recruiting is mediocre and the team is actually underperforming with respect to its talent level (see CSU, Sac. State).
CU made a bargain hire and is getting bargain results and there are still no facility upgrades on the table. If CU goes out after Embree is let go and makes another bargain hire they will get more bargain results. There was a lot of cheerleading for Bohn's work and how outstanding he is with respect to PR and fundraising and the conference shift but I remain unconvinced that this school would spend the money even if they had more. Arizona and Washington State made high profile hires, why didn't we? There has been zero reinvestment in the program.
I frankly think the program may be in better shape if we had actually retained Hawkins. Not that the was the correct move to make -- he was absolutely terrible and needed to go -- but it appears that we have replaced him with comparable recruiters and even worse game day coaching. These guys are absolutely not qualified.
Once again the tired Mac comparisons, I know they qualify the remarks, but man...:rolling_eyes:
He said we had a top recruiting class in 2012. Thats contrary to what people around here say. And what are thesee '10 looses' he refers to in the article?
The author goes on to suggest Mac's '84 1-10 season compares somehow to Embos '12 1-10 campaign and that Mac broke out in '86 so therefore Embo could (be here 2 more years?) and break out as well?
Can one of our statistics/math gurus run the odds on that possibility?
Mac comparison isn't a good one, some of you may be too young to remember but in those days we could visibly see progress each season so by seasons end you could have realistic expectations for the following. W/L records were deceiving because CU always scheduled a difficult OOC. Mac's early teams played very competitive on the road and I don't recall any 40 point losses even to highly ranked teams. To this day I believe Mac used the OOC as a recruiting tool.
"It’s been ugly, but maybe brighter days are ahead for CU."
Of course brighter days are ahead...things couldn't possibly get worse than this year.
"Webb has been the least efficient quarterback in the conference."
Just the conference???
"Embree didn’t even have experience as a coordinator before being hired as the man in Colorado."
And neither did our OC or DC (co-coord doesn't count)
"...it seems as though fans think the Buffs should already be racking up the wins."
Calling bull**** on this one...beating CSU and Sac State is not 'racking up the wins'. Most of expected the Buffs to be 3-4 right now, not 6-1 or 1-6.
"You have to keep in mind that CU isn’t a program like the Texas Longhorns where anything less than a 10 win season is unacceptable. "
With this administration, I'm not even sure 10 losses is unacceptable.
We've been saying this for years, and every year we reach a new low.
I get your point. When we lose to Metro State after a food poisoning bug wipes out half their players, then I'll say it's worse :nod:
CU 1984 Schedule Results
vs Michigan State
21 - 24 L Sep 8, 1984
20 - 27 L Sep 15, 1984
at Notre Dame
14 - 55 L Sep 22, 1984
16 - 33 L Sep 29, 1984
7 - 52 L Oct 6, 1984
vs Iowa State
23 - 21 W Oct 13, 1984
7 - 24 L Oct 20, 1984
at Oklahoma State
14 - 20 L Oct 27, 1984
27 - 28 L Nov 3, 1984
17 - 42 L Nov 10, 1984
at Kansas State
6 - 38 L Nov 17, 1984
View all (11)
It would be nice to put to rest this argument: "one guy had a terrible start to the first half-decade of his coaching career 30 years ago and then won a national championship eventually so we must keep coaches for five years".
For every Bill McCartney success story there are orders-of-magnitude more stories of someone that started terribly... continuing to do terribly.
This argument has no teeth. None. If following a course of action leads to favorable outcomes 1 out of 20 times, happening to luck in to one of those rare successes in the past should not inform a decision to continue to roll the twenty-sided die and expect the same result.
Lets all not forget that Mac was a prodigy of the Bo Schembechler coaching tree and thereby has lineage to the Woody Hayes coaching tree. Like a lot of other coaches from those two. Other prominent trees in history are the Bill Parcels tree and the Jimmy Johnson tree. The point is this; all of those prodigy coaches came from and coached in the shadow of greatness, of winning, and of success. Wether Embree as a player can lay claim to this notion (by winning) he himself does not appear to have any other connections to a great coaching tree.
imho, our next hc needs to come from a tree like that. Stoops. Saban. Miles. Somebody like that.
Hey, come on' There isn't much difference between losing to Mich State, Oregon, Notre Dame, and UCLA (the 84' OOC games) and losing to CSU, Sac State, and Fresno.
Sure, feel free to quash the only rationalization/delusion I had left...
Man, I wish you'd post a HUGE FLAG screaming "WARNING!! SPITTER has been posted!!!" Gotta clean off the keyboard, screen... mousepad... back wall...
I think the fact that CU's recruiting is putting it in the lower tier of the conference should be the big red-flag. And as others mentioned, "The Pac 12 was sold HARD as a turning point" yet over on the UO Predictions thread, we see the sad-sack "70-3" references.
Turning point? What - like plunging the last 20,000 feet is so much better than the first 20,000-foot drop?!! Holy Baumgartner, Batman!
Separate names with a comma.