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Officially off the Macintyre bandwagon

mattrob said:
This is getting bizarre now. You've created this entire logic stream to support your argument, while ignoring the single point every one else in this thread is making. If you believe that a recruiter, or any other salesman, falls into a binary "competent" or "incompetent" category based solely on how hard they work, I don't know what to tell you. Setting aside the fact that there are coaches on the staff who clearly fall into the "incompetent" category, there are absolutely salesmen (recruiters) who are more persuasive than others and (gasp!) may even have the ability to convince someone to make a decision or purchase they were originally opposed to. It's kind of the nature of the profession.
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There are coaches I’ve heard of that have slept on recruits floors over night. Saban sent some recruit 105 letters in the same DAY, all with DIFFERENT messages. Recruiting is not cut and dry, those who try harder have success but those who are good salesman have more success.
 
TSchekler said:
He has done a fantastic job with the AD in just about every way imaginable. Mac deserved an extension and pay raise, and the salary increase simply put him on par with other Pac 12 coaches. RG is not remotely in danger of being fired, regardless of what MM does going forward. Whether he fires Mac in a year or two, or Mac leaves for another job, RG will be hiring the next HC, short of him leaving on his own.
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I agree, that was my point, maybe poorly worded.
 
My thoughts, FWIW...

Before the season started I was hopeful that we could be 7-5 and go bowling with the team as it was assembled and the PAC-12 as I thought it would shake out. The fact is if you had told me that AZ would have a Heisman level QB, AZ State would not be anywhere near as bad as we thought, and even Cal would show some life- I might revise my prediction. Further, if you told me before the season started that we would lose Javier Edwards, Oliver, Tim Lynott, Nick Fisher, and Udoffia for extended periods of the season I might revise that prediction down to 5-6 wins.

Point being, context is important when looking at the results. This in no way excuses our awful run defense or inability to close out some close games, but it provides a bit more critical thinking than simply saying that last year was luck and we should be happy if MM moves on. The guy was the consensus national COY last year and I think we will be fine going forward, as long as recruiting in the trenches picks up. Also, I don't think that CU is in the place yet where our trajectory is clearly up enough to snag a top coach if Mac did leave.
 
ASU has not really been that much better than expected while UCLA and Utah have been worse than expected. It evens out. 5 wins with this schedule would be a bad season.
 
Duff Man said:
ASU has not really been that much better than expected while UCLA and Utah have been worse than expected. It evens out. 5 wins with this schedule would be a bad season.
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I agree on Utah but maybe we had different expectation for ASU and UCLA.
 
Gary Indiana said:
I think we will be fine going forward, as long as recruiting in the trenches picks up. .
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There is near unanimous agreement on this point. Where the consensus breaks down is in what can and should be done about it.

First, there's a contingent that believes MM will not or cannot make the changes necessary to improve recruiting in the trenches. Slider is definitely in this group.

Second, there's a contingent that believes he can and will. I'd guess DBT and a few others are here.

Third, there's a contingent that believes he can, but questions if he will. Duff probably falls into this camp.

And fourth, there is small idot minority that believes that right now at CU it is impossible for anyone to recruit any better in the trenches than what the current staff is doing. 8jah lands here.

I think a lot of folks are torn between two of the first three groups. I'm somewhere between 1 and 3. I think nik and mtn are somewhere between 2 and 3. Etc.
 
Duff Man said:
My point is you seem to be talking yourself into walking back the goalposts. A 3-6 record in the conference is not a high bar.
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I agree that is not a high mark, but I can simultaneously take a look at how the season has played out and realize that things have not followed the map we constructed in the off-season. Taking a retrospective look at how the season has gone is different than moving the goal the posts.

The conclusion I reached in my post is not to excuse the team or try to make anyone satisfied with the results. More to counter the idea that Mac is a bum and some other coach out there would have led us to another 10 win season this year.
 
skibum said:
There is near unanimous agreement on this point. Where the consensus breaks down is in what can and should be done about it.

First, there's a contingent that believes MM will not or cannot make the changes necessary to improve recruiting in the trenches. Slider is definitely in this group.

Second, there's a contingent that believes he can and will. I'd guess DBT and a few others are here.

Third, there's a contingent that believes he can, but questions if he will. Duff probably falls into this camp.

And fourth, there is small idot minority that believes that right now at CU it is impossible for anyone to recruit any better in the trenches than what the current staff is doing. 8jah lands here.

I think a lot of folks are torn between two of the first three groups. I'm somewhere between 1 and 3. I think nik and mtn are somewhere between 2 and 3. Etc.
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Great post. I would certainly put myself between 1 and 2. My opposing views are coming from the fact that I think he realizes that he needs to have better recruiters on staff, but I don't know if his personality will allow him to let those folks into the program.
 
Bufffan68 said:
You thought we were outcoached? I looked at those games as poor execution and running out of gas. What are you seeing?
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I saw that dumbass play call of trying to pitch the ball to Stefanou instead of kicking a field goal at end of first half when we had all the momentum as what ultimately cost us the game. That was the point where I suddenly thought things were going to fall apart and we would lose. Before that play I thought if we just kept doing what we were doing, we’d win
 
DrunkPanda said:
I saw that dumbass play call of trying to pitch the ball to Stefanou instead of kicking a field goal at end of first half when we had all the momentum as what ultimately cost us the game. That was the point where I suddenly thought things were going to fall apart and we would lose. Before that play I thought if we just kept doing what we were doing, we’d win
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That game wasn't lost on a fake field goal in the first half that would have given us 3 points, it was lost in the second half when we drove down the field consistently and couldn't get touchdowns despite numerous chances.
 
Gary Indiana said:
I agree that is not a high mark, but I can simultaneously take a look at how the season has played out and realize that things have not followed the map we constructed in the off-season. Taking a retrospective look at how the season has gone is different than moving the goal the posts.

The conclusion I reached in my post is not to excuse the team or try to make anyone satisfied with the results. More to counter the idea that Mac is a bum and some other coach out there would have led us to another 10 win season this year.
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Then we mostly agree. His job security is not and should not be an issue, but there have been enough issues this season to warrant staff changes.
 
BuffaloB said:
RG maybe reluctant to fire HCMM sooner rather then later because then he is down to 1 more hire before he is fired. He is probably lucky he is not at a football crazy school where he would on get 1 hire total, then fired.
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RG didn’t hire MM.

RG has at least two football hires left.
 
skibum said:
There is near unanimous agreement on this point. Where the consensus breaks down is in what can and should be done about it.

First, there's a contingent that believes MM will not or cannot make the changes necessary to improve recruiting in the trenches. Slider is definitely in this group.

Second, there's a contingent that believes he can and will. I'd guess DBT and a few others are here.

Third, there's a contingent that believes he can, but questions if he will. Duff probably falls into this camp.

And fourth, there is small idot minority that believes that right now at CU it is impossible for anyone to recruit any better in the trenches than what the current staff is doing. 8jah lands here.

I think a lot of folks are torn between two of the first three groups. I'm somewhere between 1 and 3. I think nik and mtn are somewhere between 2 and 3. Etc.
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I would probably lean towards being a 3 hoping that RG pushes him moving us to a 2.

I have all along been a fan of MM but am getting to the point where if he doesn't change some things we will have to move on from him if we want to consistently be better than mediocre.

Maybe my patience got burned out waiting for Hawkins to actually do what he needed for us to win but I am at a point where I want to see better than what we are getting.
 
Gary Indiana said:
My thoughts, FWIW...

Before the season started I was hopeful that we could be 7-5 and go bowling with the team as it was assembled and the PAC-12 as I thought it would shake out. The fact is if you had told me that AZ would have a Heisman level QB, AZ State would not be anywhere near as bad as we thought, and even Cal would show some life- I might revise my prediction. Further, if you told me before the season started that we would lose Javier Edwards, Oliver, Tim Lynott, Nick Fisher, and Udoffia for extended periods of the season I might revise that prediction down to 5-6 wins.

Point being, context is important when looking at the results. This in no way excuses our awful run defense or inability to close out some close games, but it provides a bit more critical thinking than simply saying that last year was luck and we should be happy if MM moves on. The guy was the consensus national COY last year and I think we will be fine going forward, as long as recruiting in the trenches picks up. Also, I don't think that CU is in the place yet where our trajectory is clearly up enough to snag a top coach if Mac did leave.
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I had CU at 8-4 before the season.

The OOC was cupcake, 3w's was the only acceptable outcome, fortunately, CU did that.

In conference, I saw SC and UW as no hopers, check.

So in 7 conference games left, OSU and Cal were near gimmes. Again check, although CU nearly shat the bed against an awful OSU team that was a missed FG from sending it to OT.

WSU and fUCLA were the two of the remaining that I thought CU would likely struggle. I was right, with CU embarrassingly losing in Pullman.

I felt that ASU, AZ and Utah were not very good teams and CU should beat them. So far, Laguda unleashes perhaps the most dynamic player in CFB by knocking the very pedestrian Dawkins out of the game. Ok, nobody saw that one coming and Tate was unleashed on a completely hapless CU run D. CU refuses to accept ASU's offer to lose, and the D lays down allowing ASU to average a city block per rush in the 4th, turning a 10 point lead into an 11 point embarrassment a la HaLk.

2 out of three winnable games are L's. The only thing standing between CU finishing the season with any dignity is a "down" Utah team on the road. The loss to AZ moved CU's upside to 7-5. The lay down to ASU moved the needle down to 6-6. A loss to Utah would end a craptacular season. A win prevents embarrassment, that's about it. If CU can get bowl eligible and win the Aqua Velva Bowl, then I suppose there is a fig leaf to hide behind.

Whatever goodwill was left in the tank after last season was splattered all over the field behind Demario Richards cleats in Tempe.

That is how I see it.
 
I think the inability to stop the run this year, makes these losses even more infuriating. You feel almost helpless. Fatalistic that the other team is going to go through ours like a hot knife through butter. Your only hope is that they forget to keep running the ball, or they make a mistake via a turnover.

Last year, during just about every game, when our defense took the field, I was confident that we were going to get a stop. That effectiveness would suffocate bad teams and it would keep us in games against most good teams, regardless of how our offense played that day.

Coaches aren't lying when they say that the way to win games is to run the ball on offense and stop the run on defense.
 
SpacemanSpiff said:
I think the inability to stop the run this year, makes these losses even more infuriating. You feel almost helpless. Fatalistic that the other team is going to go through ours like a hot knife through butter. Your only hope is that they forget to keep running the ball, or they make a mistake via a turnover.

Last year, during just about every game, when our defense took the field, I was confident that we were going to get a stop. That effectiveness would suffocate bad teams and it would keep us in games against most good teams, regardless of how our offense played that day.

Coaches aren't lying when they say that the way to win games is to run the ball on offense and stop the run on defense.
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And it's all made worse when you realize that next year's DL may have less overall talent. I can accept a down year if the future looks promising, but it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel in the front 7 right now.
 
sackman said:
RG didn’t hire MM.

RG has at least two football hires left.
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So far as I'm aware, the only HC hires that RG "owns" at this point are Volleyball (which has been a solid, if unspectacular, hire), and JR Payne for WBB- who appears to be a very good hire.

RG gives me a lot of confidence through the things that he does, but the limited data suggests he hires the right people. I have utmost confidence that RG will hire the right guy if MM leaves or is fired.
 
@&$;ing Mike said:
MM hasn’t lost to Montana State but, where is the upset win like Hawk had against WV and Georgia???
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You're also forgetting Oklahoma in 2008 (I think?), which was the biggest upset. I have thought about that, as well. Through 5 years, and this team should have stumbled into a big upset by now. Oregon and Stanford were definitely upsets in terms of the spreads, but neither were ranked.
 
sackman said:
RG didn’t hire MM.

RG has at least two football hires left.
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Correct, as I posted after.

Yes RG came 6 months after HCMM, IMHO he gave MM the extension and at a school like CU he most definitely has another head coach hire if so desired. At most SEC schools by giving him the extension, that better work or he would be out without getting another hire.
 
TSchekler said:
You're also forgetting Oklahoma in 2008 (I think?), which was the biggest upset. I have thought about that, as well. Through 5 years, and this team should have stumbled into a big upset by now. Oregon and Stanford were definitely upsets in terms of the spreads, but neither were ranked.
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Oregon had 4 wins last year and one was against Davis. It was a nice win but nothing to hang your hat on.

If I remember correctly CU played Stanford during their mid-season slump and McCaffrey was just back from injury.

I'm still waiting for that signature win. Can we finally beat USC? Even ****ty programs manage a huge upset once in a while.
 
chipwich said:
Oregon had 4 wins last year and one was against Davis. I agree it was a nice win but nothing to hang your hat on.

If I remember correctly CU played Stanford during their mid-season slump and McCaffrey was just back from injury.

I'm still waiting for that signature win. Can we finally beat USC? Even ****ty programs manage a huge upset once in a while.
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Stanford was definitely out of their mid season slump last year, they were missing their two starting corners against UDub and McCaffery was out for a couple of games but they were healthy when we played them in Palo Alto.
 
onealcd said:
Stanford was definitely out of their mid season slump last year, they were missing their two starting corners against UDub and McCaffery was out for a couple of games but they were healthy when we played them in Palo Alto.
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Thanks. I just looked at their schedule. They beat ND at South Bend the week before CU played them.

They won every game after they played CU. Colorado's D really did a number on them in that game.
 
chipwich said:
Thanks. I just looked at their schedule. They beat ND at South Bend the week before CU played them.

They won every game after they played CU. Colorado's D really did a number on them in that game.
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Yeah, Stanford was a really good win. As was Washington State and Utah, although those two obviously weren't upsets.
 
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