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Playoff Thoughts

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by Ralphandler1, Mar 8, 2009.

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How should college football crown its national champion?

  1. Keep the BCS

    4 vote(s)
    6.2%
  2. BCS system that utilizes a +1 system

    10 vote(s)
    15.4%
  3. 8 team playoff

    36 vote(s)
    55.4%
  4. More than 8 team playoff

    15 vote(s)
    23.1%
  1. Ralphandler1

    Ralphandler1 Member

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    Well I thought I would get a thread going that is sure to get some people going. Last week the MWC sent the BCS a proposal for a eight team playoff. I for one am VERY against a 8(or more) team playoff for two reasons. First of all, I believe what makes college football so great is the fact that every game matters. Unlike EVERY SINGLE OTHER SPORT with a playoff, if you lose a game in college football, you may have lost a shot at the national championship. It is this pressure to perform week in and week out that makes this game the most passionate sport in America. Allowing 8 teams to have shots at the title will greatly diminish the importance of the regular season. If teams know they only need to be in the top 8 at the end of the year then what is their incentive to play big games in the pre-season? Games like Ohio State vs. USC or CU vs FSU would not occur as often because the schools would know they don't need a statement game to get a shot at the title. How about a quick example from this past year. Anyone remember watching the Texas Tech vs Oklahoma game? Tech was undefeated ranked #2, Oklahoma was ranked #5. If you remember back to that weekend it was a HUGE DEAL! The winner was going to go on to get a shot at the national title. (Oklahoma did in fact get that shot) The kind of intensity and pagentry this type of situation creates cannot be matched my any sport. However, if we had a playoff system that game was meaningless. Both teams would have been included in the 8 team playoff regardess of winning or losing. Niether team would have had any incentive to pull out all the stops and make it a great game. It would have been a more conservative and less exciting game. And on a side note I think we all agree after the butt kicking Tech took they had not business vying for a national title anyway. So the system worked.

    The second point (then I'll stop with this really long post), is that when you look back has there ever been a year in the BCS when you can look at the top 8 and LEGITIMATLY think the #4,5,6,7 or 8 team had a claim that they were the best in the country? I am not talking about a #8 team that MAY have been able to pull an upset. I mean a #8 team that would give a top 2 team a run no matter when or where they played. As much as people complain the BCS has crowned the most deserving team MOST of the time.

    I agree that our current system is not perfect, but a playoff would be terrible for college football. The only system I could get behind is a +1 system. Then the top 4 could have a shot (even though as I said before there has yet to be a situation where the #4 team really deserved it). If you go back and look at any year it becomes clear that usually only the top 2 deserves a shot at the title, but occasionally a third does ( for example Auburn or CU in 2001). A plus one would account for those situations when a third team has a legitimate chance without taking away much from the regular season. Of course if you allow 4 teams to play, inevitably the 5 team will complain they deserve a shot too. I think the issue is the last team that gets shut out, be it in the current system, a +1 or playoff bracket, will be upset they got left out. Sorry about the novel I wrote but hope you all enjoyed my rambling. Let me know your thoughts on a playoff, +1 system or keeping the BCS as is.
     
  2. Ralphandler1

    Ralphandler1 Member

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    There is also a poll I put on the forum so you can vote. Just curious to see what Buff nation would like to see.
     
  3. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    I enjoyed it.:smile2:

    I just want CU to return to glory - whatever it takes.
     
  4. 2HellNback

    2HellNback Well-Known Member

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    8, the 6 conference champions + 2 wild cards. It will also persuade all 6 major conferences to have a Conference Title game, and if the result of that game led to qualifying for the 8 team playoff, the ratings and passion in those games would go through the roof, I mean be honest, who watched the ACC Title game? But if the winner were to be playing for a spot, I know I would.
     
  5. SBG

    SBG Formerly known as EFNMB Club Member Junta Member

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    I want conference champs, not rankings, to decide who gets to go to the playoffs. That would definitely help keep a lot of games interesting late into the year.
     
  6. neil29fp

    neil29fp Club Member Club Member

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    A 16-team playoff is the only fair transition to a playoff format. The +1 format is a feeble attempt to find a true champion. If you took the top four for a +1 this year Utah would still be left out and everyone would still be bitching. The +1 argument is weak and only considers the contenders after the fact, and even then there is no guarantee that those rankings would have held through a playoff. Stop worshiping Lindy and his ****ty magazine.
     
  7. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    See, I'm totally the opposite. I hate the fact that some lame ass Big East team gets into the BCS every year. Last year, the Big 12 should have had three teams in BCS games, but couldn't because of these ridiculous rules. Missouri got screwed by the same rules the year before. I'd keep the BCS rankings and simply seed the teams 1-16 for the playoff, regardless of conference championship.
     
  8. 96 Buff

    96 Buff Resident Commie Bastard Club Member Junta Member

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    Either go with a full-on playoff system or go back to the old bowl system. The BCS ****ing sucks ****.
     
  9. SBG

    SBG Formerly known as EFNMB Club Member Junta Member

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    I understand where you are coming from, but besides OSU and UT who did TT beat to show that they were really worthy of a top 8 ranking? I either want to see teams heavily penalized for very weak OOC scheduling or I want conf champs to go in. Anything less compromises the system as I bet we'll see fewer BCS vs BCS matchups in the early season.
     
  10. Daaah

    Daaah Club Member Club Member

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    Yeah, every game counts in the current system unless you are Utah and then none of them do.
     
  11. 77buff

    77buff Well-Known Member

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    The playoffs plus one is the most reasonable method. The BCS is controlled by money, and the big corporations that manage the BCS don't give a rat's a$$ about what fans want. The bowl elite would not like the playoffs plus one, but the game would go a long way to silence those who
    think there is another team that deserves the title - or at least a shot at it. Until you can guarantee the BCS equal money from a playoff system, it will never happen.
     
  12. Unleash Hell

    Unleash Hell Well-Known Member

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    AGREE!

    AGREE!

    You mean like the lame ass West Virginia team that just made Oklahoma look like a joke?

    AGREE!
     
  13. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    No, more like the lame ass Rutgers team or the lame ass Boston College teams that have made it in the last few years. (Rutgers made it to the BCS a couple years ago, didn't they? I can't remember).

    In reality, if they went to a 16-team playoff (which is what I would prefer) then all of the major conference winners would get in anyway. I'd use the BCS rankings to seed the tournament.
     
  14. Swish

    Swish Half a bubble off Club Member

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    I'd go with either an 8 or 16 team format. I have to go with Sacky though no automatic bids for all conferences. Sorry but the Orange Bowl was a joke this year and it was based on what else - automatic BCS bids.
    Let the top 8 or 16 go for it if they played a decent schedule, decent meaning an acknowledgement that the charity case programs need the dough they get playing the bigs so I don't have a problem with one lame duck on the OOC schedule.
     
  15. Coloradosker

    Coloradosker Active Member

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    But in that scenario that would've left UT out of the picture. I agree that we need a playoff of some sort. Every game in the regular season still matters when it comes to playoff seeding and just getting there period. I would be all for getting rid of an ooc game or two, forcing all major conferences to have a CCG, and allowing the MWC and WAC champs in as the 7 and 8 seeds. No one else would have any room to bitch if they don't win the conference. Keep the rest of the bowls as they are, play the "tournament" throughout November/December and have the bowls and championship game around New Years Day.
     
  16. OUBuff

    OUBuff American Club Member

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    Concur. If we go to a playoff, I am a 10 team fan.

    - It takes 4 weeks to complete.
    - Take the champions of B12,BE, B10,P10,SEC,ACC,MWC & WAC, plus 2 At Large.
    - I can give or take the WAC or MAC... maybe another at large. But one of the beauties of March Madness is the lower seeds (MWC/WAC) having a chance to shock the favorite. Hey if the favorites can't beat them, they don't deserve the championship anyway.

    I think it makes conference championships matter, but if you are a team that is truly deserving of being in the mix, you have a chance... keeps the, 'every game matters' feature of college football. The two at large and lowest conference seeds play the first week and "play-in."


    - Oh and we play the games on weekends, not this primetime, finish after midnight Eastern garbage. I want my kids to be able to watch the games like I did as a kid! :thumbsup:

    I know, I know, move back to God's country and save a couple of hours.:huh:
     
  17. OUBuff

    OUBuff American Club Member

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    Perhaps, but with a playoff system, the Big 12 probably wouldn't have based it's tiebreakers on BCS rankings. The tiebreaker would have probably been something that aimed at getting the team most likely to win games, not the one positioned to be more highly ranked.
     
  18. Ralphandler1

    Ralphandler1 Member

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    I agree the current system is not perfect, but I can't see a playoff doing anything except starting more arguments. Look at last year for example. If you have a 16 team system you get teams like BYU, TCU, Oklahoma state, Georgia Tech and Cincinnati in the tourney. Is anyone really saying these teams are among the best in the country? You are introducing a situation where a team like Oklahoma State, who didn't even finish in the top 5 of their own conference, but can then complete for a national title. And again this situation would KILL the regular season. Lets just say for a minute a team like Georgia Tech (#14 in the final BCS) played Florida and won. Georgia Tech lost 3 games, didn't win their conference, yet now they can eliminate a team that actually won their conference and won all their normal games. If you thought teams complained when they got left out, listen to the complaining when they gte knocked out by some fluke by a team who has no business being there. All the importance will be taken off the regular season and put on a 5 week strech at the end. There is no reward for playing well all season.

    I know a few people are advocating the old bowl system, but at least a +1 or current BCS system prevents teams from winning a national title without at least playing a very good team. (for example Washington beating 10 ranked Iowa for a title in 1991) At very least the BCS provides a game where the future national champion at least has to play a top 4 team. Its not great but I just cant see a 8 or 16 team playoff working
     
  19. SBG

    SBG Formerly known as EFNMB Club Member Junta Member

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    And your point is? UT agreed to join the Big 12 and adhere to its tiebreakers. They can petition the rules or they can ask for a realignment or, hell, they can leave the Big 12, but TS for now. I don't have any sympathy for teams like UT and Mack Brown that whine and bitch about the current system, yet don't ask for a real playoff system.

    I still like the idea of 2 at large bids to mollify a lot of these whiners.
     
  20. DukeCityBuff

    DukeCityBuff New Member

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    :yeahthat::dito::iagree:
     
  21. neil29fp

    neil29fp Club Member Club Member

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    That Ole Miss game sure was abnormal. :smile2:
     
  22. neil29fp

    neil29fp Club Member Club Member

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    That's because you lack the vision for such forethought. To your defense, though, the world used to be flat.
     
  23. calibuff81

    calibuff81 New Member

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    Playoff or not, 16 team format, 10 team format, 8 team format or 4 team format, which ever teams that get left out are still going to complain about being better than the at large teams that were selected.

    16 team format - how do you determine which teams get the at large births??? Say you take all the conference champs You have 11 division 1 coferences 12 including the indies who you must include because of Norte Dame which would probably be automatically included if they were ranked in the top 12 with a 9-3, 10-2 record, some years it would leave you with 4 at large spots or 5 at large spots. How do you determine which teams would get the at large spots?

    I'm sure we all agree that change is necessary but it's still complicated.

    12 team format only conference champs can make the playoffs all teams not making the playoffs are subject to play in bowls if they are eligible.

    They could follow the current big 12 basketball tourney format where teams ranked 1-4 would get a bye and the rest would play it out in the first round.
     
  24. neil29fp

    neil29fp Club Member Club Member

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    Why would you give an auto-bid to every conference? Do you honestly think the sunbelt conference should get an automatic bid every year--no, that's stupid; however, if a sunbelt team goes undefeated then I would throw them in the tourney--give an automatic bid to every current BCS conference--that makes 6. Give ND an automatic bid if they're in the top 10 (this is purely a formality becasue they would be an at-large selection in practice--this merely puts that guarantee in writing.) You could guarantee a slot for a mid-major if they are undefeated; otherwise the top 2 ranked mid-majors get automatic bids. The remaining slots would be filled by the top remaining teams ranked by the BCS. I really don't understand why this format would be so difficult--to me it solves every issue. And don't give me the "teams will complain about being left out" -- teams will lobby till the end of time for the betterment of their program; however, there is a discernable difference between complaining while ranked #3 and complaining while being ranked #17.
     
  25. Daaah

    Daaah Club Member Club Member

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    It's worse for us west coasters who work day jobs. I can't catch the beginning of the games because they start at 5pm. At least you can stay up to watch them if you want.
     
  26. 14ers4me

    14ers4me Member

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    Those who say a playoff would diminish the regular season are off base IMO. Every game would still matter-especially w/ an 8 team playoff because that one loss might knock you out. Most seasons don't have more than one undefeated team anyway so you're going to have a bunch of one loss teams fighting it out. As for the TT/OU game each had one loss, but TT was out based on when they lossed. Same thing for UT. They beat OU, but got hosed. Not to mention Utah. Lousy conference, yes, but they went undefeated. A playoff gives them a chance. Granted, if you had a #1 vs #2 game toward the end of the season it might not be as big a deal, but so what? Give the best 8 a shot at the end of the season and it doesn't have to be conference champs who make it. Take the top 8 or 16 regardless. Currently no one gives a rats ass about any bowl game except the MNC or the game your favorite team is in. If you use the existing bowls for the playoff games everyone will be watching the Gator Bowl or the Holiday Bowl.
     
  27. CarolinaBuff

    CarolinaBuff Weekend Poster Club Member

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    I think a 4-team playoff would be ideal. That way it's not watered down at all, but it's an expansion of what is basically a 2-team "playoff" that we have now. Phil Steele presents this format in his preview every year and I think he's spot on.

    Yea, regardless of how many teams, it needs to be the 4 best, 8 best, etc.. regardless of conference affiliation. If you had an 8-team playoff and took the 6 BCS conference champs plus 2 at-large teams, then you wouldn't be looking at the 8 best teams. It wouldn't even be close. Look no further than the NCAA basketball tournament. There's no way that tournament has the best 65 teams in it. It's more like the best 40-45 teams, plus a bunch of teams who either won some rinky-dink conference or got hot over a 3 or 4-day period.
     
  28. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    The difference between the NCAA basketball tournament and a football tournament is that the NCAA basketball tournament is big enough to ensure that the best teams do get in. Somebody might be the 45th best team in the country, but they don't have a realistic shot at winning the whole thing, so leaving them out isn't that big of a deal.

    In much the same vein, if there were to be a 16-team football playoff, seeded by the rankings, then there could be little argument about whether the best teams made it into the tournament. the 17th best football team in the country doesn't really have much of an argument. The 9th best team would, though. Just my opinion.
     
  29. calibuff81

    calibuff81 New Member

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    It's not that I would, but the argument is who's to say that one conference is better than the other. How do you dictate which teams from the other conferences go if they've got teams that have identical records. What makes one team more deserving than the other. If you were awarding playoff positions to teams that were deserving than non of the mid major conferences would get a bid unless the WAC or Mountain West had a team like Utah and Boise State run the tables again. It would be the same thing all over again with the BCS why would you even create a playoff format.

    That reliable computer you're talking about once ranked Florida State over Miami, which Miami beat Florida State head to head in the same season and they had identical records. I also recall USC being ranked #1 in the Nation and being bumped by the computer because it thought OU and LSU were the top 2 teams in the Nation.
     
  30. CarolinaBuff

    CarolinaBuff Weekend Poster Club Member

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    Right, and there's very little doubt that the top 3 or 4 teams wouldn't get into an 8-team playoff, for example, but if you're going to have a tournament/playoff of any size, it should be the top X teams, X being the total size of the field.

    If there's an 8-team playoff, it should be the consensus top 8 teams, not something like #'s 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 12, 15, and 18.
     

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