Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by CarolinaBuff, Aug 28, 2010.
EDIT: Meant the title to read "Season ticket sales"
isu had a coaching change in the last couple years, the results are skewed..
we are all very disappointed in you.
that being said...
you have a 20,000+ difference between #3 and #4 and then another 20,000+ between them and CU. :wow: even with even distrubition of TV money, there is just no way to make up that difference.
well, other than winning and building your program.
We need to double that number.
(I don't have the data in front of me, but I think MBB needs about a 4x increase.)
And 2010 sales are down 13%. Yikes.
Are they still? I thought we had gotten a recent bump and closed the gap from the 12% I had heard we were at when camp started.
It doesn't appear to me that these figures include student ticket sales - in the case of A&M, their student section is huge (30,000+ if I remember right), so you tack on that figure to the 32,000 public season tickets, add in a few thousand for visitors, a few thousand for walkups, and about a thousand or so for player guests and recruits, and you get a figure north of 70,000 people per game, which matches about what the Ags draw at Kyle Field these days...
Not to downplay this, but being the analytical guy that I am, shouldn't you look at attendance based on percentage of capacity? I mean, UT holds around 100K. Folsom is half that. I think game day attendance last year seemed to be pretty good.
Why would you look at it that way?
The reality seems well represented by the numbers shown, DBT. Despite being in one of the largest population centers in the Big 12, we have nearly the smallest season ticket bases. If you want to bring in that we also have one of the smallest stadiums in the conference (smaller than a number of non-BCS programs), I guess that also makes the point. But the percentage doesn't mean much, imo. It's not like we're talking about a CU program that has ever sold out its home games for an entire season.
(As an aside, this is the main reason I like the job Mike Bohn is doing. He may be the first AD that CU has ever had that is actively trying to boost ticket sales, fan base, and booster support. Frankly, it's pathetic what goes on at CU compared to the rest of the country with the low number of boosters and the tiny season ticket base. If I've got one complaint about CU fans it's that we are only willing to pay for dog food but we expect to be served filet mignon.)
how about season ticket sales = guaranteed revenue to the AD. a 20-40k split among programs matters. if one wants to keep up in the arms race, you better be putting asses in the seats. only one sure way to do that.
Serious question here: are most native Coloradans not big football fans? How is the attendance for children playing high school football vs. other sports. And what is the support like for fans of high school and middle school football games (for example, is the high school rivalry football game the biggest event of the year at the high school, or is the band concert more well attended).
I know the Broncos are huge in Denver, but the ticket sales might be from a lack of people caring about the game. Or maybe just all the sh1tty coaching and losses recently.
It has a lot to do with variety and the ****ty performance lately. Plus I don't think the AD has ever really gotten serious about advertising to the Denver market. I always hear CSU commercials on sports radio. But only a few CU spots. My family also went to a lot of AFA games because they had a deal going on with Dr. Pepper for cheap seats. The AFA schedule was also on every can of Dr. Pepper sold in the Metro area.
i also think that the buffs really need to get on local tv more but the new media contracts don't seem to favor the local media broadcasting the non televised games.
Greg - the simple answer is that there aren't a lot of native Coloradans. The vast majority of people who live in the state moved here from somewhere else. We really don't have what I call "roots" - several generations in a family where they all went to CU. As an example, at my office, I have one boss who went to Nebraska, one who went to Texas Tech, and one who went to Utah. The NU family has two children - one who went to NU and one to Ft Lewis in Durango. The Tech family has 5 kids - 3 went to CU, 1 to Tech, one to UT. The Utah family has two kids - one went to Oregon, the other to a performing arts school in Philly. All but 3 moved back to Colorado after college - but many of those have loyalties outside the state (and all of the kids were born and raised in Colorado). We just have a whole different set of circumstances here that lead to the small fanbase. And as far as high school goes, those game - for the most part - have pitiful attendance. The largest high school stadium in the state that I am aware of is Dutch Clark Stadium in Pueblo, which seats about 13,000, but they don't draw anywhere near that for most games. For whatever reason, HS football in Colorado is just not a big deal all the way around.
As others have already said, if CU starts winning again with some regularity, they will do just fine in season ticket sales and attendance.
Variety is certainly a huge part of it - people have only so much discretionary dolalrs to spend and an area like Boulder/Denver/Front Range offers so much variety for people to spend that CU is just one of many choices...I think also the fact that, for a state school, a considerable portion of our alumni base is out-of-state - when I was in school I believe CU was around 33-35% out-of-state students, which has got to be the one of the highest (if not the highest) percentage of out-of-state students at a public university in the country...that diversity in the student body translates, post-graduation, to an alumni base that is spread pretty far and wide and thus not in the area and able to support the Buffs...I'm one of those out-of-state alums (from Pennsylvania originally, now live in Florida), and I know that if I were living in Colorado now, I'd absolutely be a season ticket holder...
See, I think that is the perception here. But attendance to CU games has always been an issue.
I also don't think it is totally fair to just look at season tickets sold. You need to look at tickets sold. Also, you probably need to look not at just numbers of butts in the seats but how much those butts paid per ticket. I mean, if I were going to analyze I'd look at dollars earned compared to maximum dollars possible. For instance, CU will always offer cut rate deals against the poorer drawing teams. You know, the family pack stuff. So, they might sell 4 tickets for $60 or something when the face value for the four might be $200.
But, for sure, CU has never been a school to sell out game in and game out like, say, the fuskers. Thats why the fuskers can schedule Southwest College of Accounting and get a sell out while CU has to schedule the Georgias of the world. This year, the home schedule sucks, we were bad last year, the economy is in the tank, etc. Therefore, our attendance will be a challenge. So, what does CU do? They schedule an away game at Ohio St. in order to earn $1.2 million.
Another factor is luxary boxes and club seats. That is a huge factor as far as dollars earned.
Oh, by the way, aTm, years ago, offered these life time deals. People could lock in season tickets for a real low rate. Now, those people are paying way less than what the seats could be sold for. aTm is trying to get those folks to give up those seats. That isn't going to happen. I'm not 100% sure how that all went down, but I know a guy who's brother has season tickets that he pays hardly anything for. The school has been trying to get rid of those grandfathered in deals.
Here's the percentage figures. CU moves up one spot to 10th when you consider it that way and the Nubs go to #1. Take it for what you will...
Well, that is the percentage of season tickets sold. What I'm talking about is total tickets: Season tickets plus the other tickets sold. I think CU is right in the middle of the pack in the Big XII and will compare favorably with the PAC.
Here's my less than scientific observations and suggestions.
Excluding CU alum, the inhabitants of the front range generally dislike Boulder, or perhaps see no point in going there. From the moment US36 backs up at the Colorado Ave traffic signal, Boulder is a hastle. Parking down town is tough. Real Estate is out of reach. The town is elitist and doesn't appeal to Joe six-pack. Why go to Boulder if the welcome wagon is snooty? You can get better shopping in Cherry Creek, Downtown Denver, and at any number of fancy malls and shopping complexes. The Boulder infrastructure doesn't handle big crowds well. Whether it's the Bolder Boulder or a football game, you are guaranteed to be backed up in traffic somewhere in town and you will be not happy with the parking situation.
Fix: Make the Boulder turnpike 3 lanes in each direction and have it flow through town with no traffic signals. Build overpasses or dig a canyon for traffic to flow all the way through town. Create ample off ramps and long frontage roads along the side of 36 and big two lane exits for Baseline, Colorado, down town (Arapaho, Canyon, Pearl) Valmont, Iris, and Jay. Double the parking downtown with more multi-level garages. Boulder could use a few really nice large resort hotels, too. The hotels in Boulder are either over priced, and many aren't exactly keeping up with the times. (Pools, fitness rooms, conference facilities)
Issue 2: Diploma dilution. The Denver area has a large higher edutainment infrastructure, with gobs of institutions offering diplomas. Metro, Red Rocks CC, CSU-Denver, CU-Denver, DU, Regis, Mines, Arapaho CC, DeVry, U of Phoenix, Johnson & Wales and others have crowded out the marketplace. Alumni from these schools, plus from outside of Denver (Ft. Lewis, Western State, Mesa, AFA, Colo College, Northern Colorado, CSU-Pueblo, Adams State, Colo Mtn College), or graduates from any number of out of state schools makes it difficult for CU to connect with vast numbers of college educated Coloradoans. Lots of these schools don't have football programs, or if they do, there is not enough intersquad interactions with CU to create interest or rivalries.
Fix: Colo's higher ed market is ripe for consolidation. Do more to get highschool and college kids in Denver indoctrinated into college football culture. It might help if DU had a football program, or if CSU played more games in Denver to help stimulate interest in CFB. If CU had the option to play more teams located in the Denver area, it would certainly raise the profile of CU in-state.
As it stands, the Broncos and the high priced NFL tickets are a more than adequate substitute for the college game in elitist Boulder.
Boulder USA is more accurate than Boulder, CO. With 45% of students coming in from out of state, and with the football roster lopsided by out of state players, there are few home town heros on the field, connecting with the area's high schools. This dynamic further distances the emotional bond between Denver's vast metro area and CU.
Fix: Convence OOS alum to buy season tickets and have a program where those tickets get in the hands of as many Colorado youth league players, highschool students and teachers as possible.
Some good points I guess Skiddy, but I don't buy into all of that.
Really, the main problem is that there are too many sports options in the area. Most college towns don't have anything else to rally around. Here, the Broncos rule, and if you aren't a Broncos fan then you might be more interested in the Avs, Nugz, or Rockies. Or maybe DU hockey and basketball. Or the Colorado Eagles hockey up north.
Once you divide the rest of that up, then you've got to split the remainder between a huge chunk of out-of-staters, CSU alum, and AFA fans.
The only solution is to become the BEST game in town. You win enough games over a long enough stretch of time, then the people will choose to come to watch games at CU over going to the other sporting attractions around.
Winning cures all problems. Texas wouldn't be selling all those season tickets and be expanding DRM stadium to over 100k seats without their >93% home winning record. It must be nice to have virtually every home game be an automatic win.
Austin's roads, hotels and parking are better than what you find in Boukder, too.
Not having an NFL, MLB, NHL or NBA team in a metro area almost the population of Denver doesn't hurt either.
Colorado HAS to get to the PAC next year. If the NFL locks out, it could be a great opportunity for the Buffs with the excitement of the conference change and no Broncos to compete with.
To expand on this, places like UT, Ohio State, Tennessee, Penn State, etc. wouldn't have 100K+ seat stadiums if the demand wasn't there. We only have a 53K seat stadium because that is almost always more than adequate for what the demand warrants.
First of all, winning does not cure all. When CU was at its height of success from the late 80s through the mid 90s, it still didn't sell out games at Folsom and the season ticket base was around what it is now. Somehow, the population along the front range in Colorado doubled from 1990 to 2010 without attendance going up. This is primarily a marketing problem.
Something that Skid talked about in his previous post is the perceived elitism of Boulder. I think a bigger problem is the perceived elitism of CU. It would make such a huge difference if it emulated some of the programs that other state flagship universities have. For instance, Texas-Austin automatically accepts and student who graduated in the top 10% of his class from a Texas high school. Why couldn't CU do that? Georgia, I believe, does something similar with state lottery money awarding high GPA students from state high schools to get scholarship money to in-state schools. In some ways, CU has a state government problem that holds it back. But CU also doesn't do itself any favors with its lack of outreach into Colorado communities. We need more marketing, we need online degree programs, we need more university hospitals, etc., etc. We also need more state support and more marketing by the athletic department. Winning does not cure this alone.
We actually do have this: http://admissions.colorado.edu/undergraduate/admissions/freshman/guarantee
The reason season tickets matters so much though, is that they are more expensive and require a donation. They are the tickets that make the most money for the program.
The implication is that season ticket holders aren't buying on price.
While getting 3 packs and discounted single game tickets is a more affordable option, the season ticket holder doesn't have a problem with paying more, knowing that the premium price is really a donation.
Something is funny with these numbers. Do you mean to tell me that Nebraska only has 5,000 student tickets, no game day tickets, and no visiting team allotment?
Something doesn't add up here. I suspect that there's some massaging of numbers going on.
ATM's % seems off, to me.
I did not know that (obviously).
Is it publicized at all? Probably not enough. I didn't graduate high school in Colorado and my son is way too young for me to be worrying about college admissions, so there wouldn't have been anything targeted to me. But are in-state high school and junior high school students (and their parents) well-aware of this?
Another factor in revenue are the luxury and club level seats. Where does CU stand as far as units purchased and income for them compared to other Big XII schools? I mean, one luxary box is equivalent to a **** load of season tix.
I also am almost sure I've seen something to the effect that CU caps its number of season tickets at somewhere in the 20K to 25K range. Does anyone know the facts on that?
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