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Sorry we got off on the wrong foot.

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by Corn_Fan, Jun 13, 2010.

  1. Corn_Fan

    Corn_Fan Member

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    My last thread got deleted I know I came off trollish I really did not mean to.

    I will ask a simple question because I am curious. Do any CU fans have any link or information that shows why the Pac 10 would generate more money for the P-10 conference with the inclusion of CU and Utah? I mean on a per school basis the inclusion of a championship game does not do that unless it generates more per school on average than the schools in the Pac 10 already get.

    I honestly just don't get why the Pac 10 would expand with just those two teams. And yes I understand tv markets but are Denver and Salt Lake that big of a deal compared to Phoenix, LA, San Fran and Seattle?

    For the record I am happy for CU you got out before the Big XII house burned down and I will miss playing the Buffs every year.
     
  2. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    Denver is a top 20 TV market, just like the four markets you mentioned. Denver is also growing and will continue to grow at a good clip over the next two decades. Salt Lake City is currently just outside the top 30, but figures to move into the top 30 with an increasing population. The markets do make a difference when you start talking about a new contract.

    You also ignored the point in the other thread that the Pac-10 TV contract is very old, so it was going to see a nice bump regardless of any expansion.
     
  3. Del

    Del Member

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    Boulder Buff pretty much summed it up for you corn fan - nobody here is trying to pretend that the expansion without Texas would generate more money but it would be foolish to believe that the addition of the Denver and Salt Lake market plus the Mountain time zone, a championship game and updating an old deal would not bring in more money than the Pac 10 currently gets no matter how much you would like to believe so. Just look at the ACC deal which didn't add anything new for starters.
     
  4. Corn_Fan

    Corn_Fan Member

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    But isn't the Big XII tv deal old as well? So CU would have gained by staying in the Big XII as well, no? The big XII shared more per school than the Pac and both the Big XII and the Pac 10 were due for a better TV deal (the Big XII probably a better deal since their teams competed for NCs all the time) so I don't get why the Pac is saying they can give CU more $$$ than the Big XII? You gotta factor in the U$S stuff too, don't you? I mean they won't be in a bowl game for two years.
     
  5. Corn_Fan

    Corn_Fan Member

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    I 100% agree that bringing in CU and Utah brings in more overall revenue (why wouldn't I?) than the current Pac 10 does. I just don't believe that it brings in more PER SCHOOL than what the current pac 10 teams get.
     
  6. Darian3Hagan

    Darian3Hagan '89 Player of the Year Club Member

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  7. Corn_Fan

    Corn_Fan Member

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    Why do you not care? Do you now trust Bohn and your leadership now all of a sudden?

    You guys have not one bit of info on this, do you?
     
  8. DesertDawg526

    DesertDawg526 Resident Dawg Club Member

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    Going to 12 teams, with an updated contract, with the possibility of a championship game, should at least double what each Pac-10 team is currently getting under the old contract, regardless of who is invited. Throw in certain teams and it could nearly triple. The Pac currently is severely undervalued in its current contract, and that won't be the case in the next go around.
     
  9. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    You seriously do not believe that 12 teams would be getting more than the current $5 million a piece from football broadcasts? Really? For you to be correct, you would be saying that adding the two new teams will only raise the football portion of the contracts from roughly $53 million a year to a little over $60 million a year?
     
  10. Del

    Del Member

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    The ACC-ESPN agreement is worth approximately $155 million annually for 12 years, according to the Sports Business Journal. Since the conference wisely divides television monies equally, that figures to $13 million a year for each of the 12 members.

    The current contract, which expires in 2011, provides each ACC school about $5.05 million. Just your basic 157-percent increase, courtesy of a bidding war between ESPN and Fox Sports.
     
  11. Corn_Fan

    Corn_Fan Member

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    Your money is off. The Pac now splits 9 mil a year per team. 90 Million dollars for the Pac 10. Adding Utah and Colorado and keeping the same figures means the Pac needs to make $118 Million just to keep par.

    I doubt CU can bring in 9 Mil per year. (Utah less) since you could not come close to that in the Big XII. That is all. I would like to know why Colorado can bring in to the Pac 10 significantly more than they could bring into the Big XII. It is a simple question and I am sure you all have some denverpost.com links or something.
     
  12. Darian3Hagan

    Darian3Hagan '89 Player of the Year Club Member

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    **** off troll.
     
  13. Idot Buff

    Idot Buff Club Member Club Member

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    Hey, dumb ass. Did you not see the ACC analogy? The current PAC-10 television value is way under market. Even without adding CU, the $90M/yr will go way up. Did you get a business degree in Lincoln?
     
  14. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    My money figures were for football only. Either way, look at AustinBuff's post about the ACC's new contract to understand why we will be getting more money if it only ends up being us and Utah.
     
  15. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    I love how this troll is taking Chip Brown's word as gospel. Especially since it wasn't sourced and was a one off line fed directly to him from the Texas AD :lol:
     
  16. wsp4820

    wsp4820 Sally Club Member Junta Member

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    Two points:

    1. Why Pac would expand to Denver/SLC: Pac is looking at starting its own network, and that is where adding an entirely new market will really pay off, IMO. Not only will the network deal be worth more because of the big markets, but the ability to charge for an entirely new channel in fairly populated locations it wouldn't otherwise will be the big change over the previous 10. We can argue over whether these markets are "college markets" all day and night, but in theory, it's the new channel that is driving the biggest increase in revenue.

    2. Why Pac will be better for us than B12: Because, and I really hope this was a part of our deal, revenue in the new Pac deal will be divided evenly among all teams and not grossly disproportionally as it is in the B12 contract. That's the entire reason UT wants to save the B12, to save it's huge advantage in revenues. Thus, moving to a conference where we'll be on equal footing, at least as far as conference revenues are concerned, is better for us overall. Sure, we may still be behind our conferencemates in overall revenues, but at least the gap won't be as wide and maybe eventually we can catchup on the non-conference based revenues with most of the teams.

    EDIT: also, your thread wasn't deleted, it was moved to the realignment subform...here it is in all its glory
     
  17. bigdaddybuffs

    bigdaddybuffs Club Member Club Member

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    Here ya go,

    Big Ten TV markets as currently composed (12 Teams) top 50 tv markets
    3 - Chicago 3.5mil
    11 - Detroit 1.9mil
    15 - Minn/St. Paul 1.7
    18 - Cleveland 1.5mil
    25 - Indy 1.1 mil
    33 - Cinci .9mil
    34 - Columbus .9 mil
    35 - Milwaukee .9mil
    39 - Harrisburg .7 mil
    Rough Total - 13.1 mil (also have markets 54, 65, 68, 70,73, 76, 84,85,88,91,99)

    PAC 10 with CU and UU
    2- LA 5.6mil
    6 - SF 2.5mil
    12 - Phoenix 1.9mil
    13 - Seattle 1.8mil
    16 - Denver 1.5mil
    20 - Sacramento 1.4mil
    22 - Portland 1.2mil
    28 - San Diego 1mil
    31 - Salt Lake .9mil
    Roughly 17.8million (also markets 55, 66, 75, 92)

    Adding Texas and Oklahoma would add Markets (2,10, 37, 42, 45, 48, 61, 87, 89, and 98 the top 50 markets would add 7.4million alone)

    The addition of a Championship game is said to bring 13 to 18 million, both conferences would be adding this, so thats as wash.
    The PAC 10 with CU and UU would have an additional 4.7 million viewers right from inception of a TV network. Published reports from the Big 10 network have shown they get roughly 10 cents per subscriber in states that don't have a Big 10 team and 60 per view in states that do. This is per month, that is an additional 2.8 million dollars over the big ten by population alone. Adding Texas and OU would bump that number by another 4.4 million per month. All of the states in the Pac 10 forecast for population expansion almost none of the Big 10 states do.
     
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  18. ScottyBuff

    ScottyBuff Well-Known Member

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    Because the Pac-10 is forming their own TV network and the # of TV households matters SIGNIFICANTLY more to a conference-owned network than to a traditional over-the-air broadcaster.

    The Pac has been "undervalued" significantly in the past, of that there is no debate. Larry Scott, Kevin Weiberg, and CAA Media Sports Ventures are 100% committed to forming a conference owned network similar to the Big Ten. The Big Ten "only" gets $5.5 MM per year/per school from their "contract" with the Big Ten Network, and $9MM from their ABC/ESPN deal. The rest of the $20-24MM they get is from bowl distributions, basketball tournament distributions, and an ever increasing chunk as a profit distribution from the 51% share in the TV Network.

    The revenue is generated from a combination of TV Ratings (advertising money) and cable carrier fees ($/monthly subscriber).

    Adding Colorado and the Denver market, which has a great many "transplants" from the West Coast and 1 to 2 million TV households means that they will more than pull their weight in bringing revenue to the conference.

    Reports were that the Pac-10 (as a 10 team package) would be looking to get anywhere from $12-15 MM per school with their total rights being up for contract in 2011-12. The former Big 12 Commish (Kevin Weiberg) who also helped establish the BTN, obviously KNEW that CU would bring in a bigger per school share than that, otherwise they would not have invited us.

    You want facts and evidence, but that invite alone, is all the facts that are needed. The leadership of the Pac-10 are far more sophisticated than you seem to give them credit for. That is your problem. The bottom line is that none of this will be solidified for another year, as the Pac-10 is getting their teams lined up first, then will negotiate all the finer points of their deals by April of 2011 in advance of the 2012 season.

    You are making too many apples to oranges comparisons.

    The Big 12 revenues were a fixed figure that were originally contracted based on projections of TV ratings and market sizes. Colorado was a major factor in the value of the Big 12 contract being what it was. The amount that was divided up to each team was based on 1 year's # of national/regional televised games in football and basketball. CU did get a fair amount of football games on national TV, but not many in basketball. To say that CU didn't pull its weight or was an underperformer for the current season's distribution is accurate, but not relevant in the bigger picture. Each season does not have the conference renegotiate their TV deals, bowl deals, etc. The dividing up of the revenues is simply an allocation based on appearances on TV, not size of markets or ratings.

    Again, this is significantly different under a conference-owned network scenario, where market size matters much more significantly.

    Adding the Colorado media markets to a Pac-10 Network will generate $0.70 to $1.00 per month for each TV household that receives distribution. There are 1.5 million households in the Denver metro market and another 400k in Colorado Springs/Pueblo market. That equates to a market cap of $16 to $23MM per year. Factor in the added value of a national over-the-air contract like the Big Ten's ABC/ESPN contract; additional bowl games, a conference championship game, and increased attendance at many Pac-10 home venues and there is more than enough evidence to support the Pac-10's decision to invite Colorado.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2010
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  19. bigdaddybuffs

    bigdaddybuffs Club Member Club Member

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    Using the big 10 model of 60cents per tv set in the state and Colorado's 2009 population of just over 5million, this could generate over 3 million per month if they get the Pac 10 network on basic packages.
     
  20. MCskid

    MCskid New Member

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    corn fan, let's turn this question around, how do you figure that the bugeaters will bring in $25 mm a year to the big 10? according to the 2000 census your state had around 650,000 folks in it. neb. is growing at less than 1% a year, so maybe you added around 50,000 more people in the last 10 years, but 85,000 of them are at the stadium(your 3rd largest city!), not infront of the tv. i realize you have a national following, top 5 all time wins, but come on, it ain't an nd type of following.
     
  21. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    The math on how Nebraska makes the Big 10 $20 million more valuable is much more elusive.
     
  22. bombay

    bombay Club Member Club Member

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    ESPN radio reported last night that at least initially, Nebraska will get only a half share of Big Ten Network revenue.
     
  23. Hawkmustgo!

    Hawkmustgo! New Member

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    "Beebe has been told the loss earlier this week of Nebraska to the Big Ten and Colorado to the Pac-10 could diminish the value of the Big 12 by as little as 8 to 10 percent. "
    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5282178

    guess the 'Nubs were bring down the Big XII too huh? lol
     
  24. Hawkmustgo!

    Hawkmustgo! New Member

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    MILLIONS OF REASONS http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5277507

    One Big 12 football coach said the Pacific-10 keyed on Colorado because it has the Denver TV market, something important to a conference with one of the smaller annual TV contracts.
    BCS conferenceAmount of contractBig Ten$242 millionSEC$205 millionBig 12$78 millionACC$67 millionPacific-10$58 millionBig East$33 million


    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5270048

    "It would take a week to 10 days to finalize the details of a Pac-16. The blockbuster deal would add the nation's No. 5 (Dallas), No. 10 (Houston) and No. 16 (Denver) TV markets to the conference, which already includes No. 2 Los Angeles, No. 6 San Francisco, No. 12 Phoenix and No. 13 Seattle.

    With that large population base, the new conference would start its own network and, along with other broadcast partners, likely would distribute around $20 million per member, comparable broadcast revenue to the Big Ten ($22 million) and SEC ($17 million), the source said.
    The Big 12 distributed $7 million to $12 million a year. The Pac-10 distributed $8 million to $10 million."


    I know those numbers are based on the Pac-11 adding 5 more teams...but even if Texas A&m goes to the SEC...it would still be right in line with the SEC or ACC tv contract. Now if the Pac 11 just adds one more team.....CU will be getting alot more than what they were receiving in the Big XII just based on getting a new tv contact. Sorry 'Nub fan, we are alot better off finacially in the Pac-whatever than the Big XII ALL due to the new tv contract that the PAC will be getting!
     
  25. Hawkmustgo!

    Hawkmustgo! New Member

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    here's another good read for you 'Nub fan!

    http://azstarnet.com/sports/article_6f10c8b9-367d-539c-bb52-d7e82cc8b850.html


    "Now working under a television contract worth just $43 million annually, the Pac-10 could command up to $256 million a year with a 16-team alignment that includes the Longhorns and their passionate fans, according to USA Today. The Pac-10 would likely have its own television network as part of the plan, as the Big Ten does now.
    That would put the Pac-10 firmly among college sports' big dogs. The Big Ten currently generates a reported $165 million annually in television revenue, the ACC takes in $155 while the SEC recently struck a $205 million deal."

    "As we know television has a tremendous impact on what takes place with your contracts right now and that's an important revenue source for every league out there," Arizona AD Greg Byrne said. "You've seen what's taken place in the Big Ten and their network and Southeastern Conference and their television agreement and the same thing with the ACC."

    With bowl and NCAA basketball tournament revenues, a new Pac-10 could distribute a total of $20 million back to each member every year. Arizona had a total revenue stream of $51.8 million from all sources in 2008-09 while Texas had $138.5 million, according to U.S. Department of Education figures.
     
  26. PhillyBuff

    PhillyBuff Club Member Club Member

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    No links to the Denver Post.... that would only give you Nebraska information....

    the big TV money that is being discussed comes from the Pac-10 creating it's own network as a pay per channel on a sports tier. Many people like me in Philadelphia are going to buy that channel so I can watch every single Pac-10 game in my own home. This revenue does not exist at the moment and has been hugely successful for the Big 10.
     
  27. PhillyBuff

    PhillyBuff Club Member Club Member

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    You definitely did some good work here... but this fails to analyze the fact that Philadelphia homes buy the Big 10 network in large numbers because there are a lot of PSU alums in the area.... just an example...
     
  28. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    Mexicans. Think about it. The Pac will have all the televisions in Mexico! All we have to do is get the Mexicans to fall in love with futbol. Carlos Slim will pay a few hundred million for the Mexican rights to the Pac ? Network!
     
  29. bigdaddybuffs

    bigdaddybuffs Club Member Club Member

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    I did miss Philadelphia, the big issue is if the network becomes part of the basic cable/satellite package all the viewers in the state would be paying in, regardless if they watch games or not, the total population bases of Pac 10 states would dwarf all others, with or without Texas. California has a population of roughly 38mil. Even if half have cable/satellite the numbers could be huge.
     
  30. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    I can tell you that the number thrown around at CU via the PACX is in the neighborhood of $24-27M per year. Just sayin..
     

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