AllBuffs | Unofficial fan site for the University of Colorado at Boulder Athletics programs
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Prime Time. Prime Time. Its a new era for Colorado football. Consider signing up for a club membership! For $20/year, you can get access to all the special features at Allbuffs, including club member only forums, dark mode, avatars and best of all no ads ! But seriously, please sign up so that we can pay the bills. No one earns money here, and we can use your $20 to keep this hellhole running. You can sign up for a club membership by navigating to your account in the upper right and clicking on "Account Upgrades". Make it happen!
Tad Boyle is the Greatest Coach in CU Men’s Basketball History
- Thread starter Goose
- Start date
Ummm...The only significant basketball facility upgrade in our lifetimes happened while Bohn was AD
I would never straight up tell an athlete they suck, not what I was framing with the interview I mentioned. My point is that based on every point made here and out loud by Tad and RG is that we are "Happy" to be an average basketball team and program, just do things right, do not make noise, let's have fun, is participation medal mentality. Everyone here says that is who we are, and if that is it, so be it. That is what almost killed our football program, and it took a unicorn to revive it.
I just listened to the comments Drew was making and transcribed them as follows:
Drew Goodman brought up a conversation that he had with Tad before the game and shared it at the 7:30 remaining point in the second half last night
“I had a talk with Tad Boyle and had an interesting conversation about how at the beginning of the season you talk about March, about bracketology and after just two games a team might be a top 4 seed, and Tad made a point that so much emphasis is placed on the tournament, he loves his basketball team that he has, and they are beat up, he thinks they are really good, he loves their cohesiveness and we have accomplished a lot of great things, but if you do not go to the tournament, or you do not win a game in the tournament, the season was terrible."
Drew makes his own comment that there is a lot of truth to that, so maybe he is not specifically saying that Tad is all about downplaying the tournament, but the conversation is about everything other than the tournament.
“Bracketology Sells” said Eldridge
“There is a lot of team goals, conference wins, finishing in the top 3 or 4 and other goals, and I do not want to downplay going to the tournament, but there is more to it than that”
His co-host Eldrdge Recassner, former Washington player and P12 Hall of Honor then said this: “That is the ultimate thing that judges a team, though, making the tournament, anything else is a FAILURE.” That is what a former player said
GRM
Well-Known Member
Agreed. He has to evaluate his players each year and decide what approach will work. This year, with the short bench he is pretty limited on what he can do. If anything, he has to be positive as he has a bunch of players playing 30+ minutes each.
Hasn’t there been a new weight room built, lockerroom renovation, new floors, and new Jumbotron installed the past decade?
Not wanting to get into the Tad talk, but I would say Tad "pressing" KJ his first two seasons HAS worked out quite well.
That's fair. Perhaps I should have said most significant. To me, those pale in comparison to building an entirely new practice and operations facility.
I don't understand why he doesn't engage the students. It doesn't cost that much to give out free pizza or a bunch of shirts or whatever.
I think you lack reading comprehension. Tad wasn't talking to you when he spoke to those guys, he was talking to his team. At the time, he knew that they have to win their next four (now three) to lock up a tourney invite. He thinks that telling his players that will negatively affect their performance . . . so instead he changed the frame.
Honestly, anyone who thinks Tad isn't competitive and is just happy to get 20 wins hasn't been paying attention. It's a lazy take.
It's entirely possible to value winning and think that it is not the sole measure of success.
Giannis gave an interview after last season saying that the Bucks season was not a complete failure because of the first round exit. That attitude hasn't stopped him from being wildly successful by any metric, including bringing a championship to freaking Milwaukee.
There's an old Kobe interview where he's asked if he is the type of player that loves winning or hates losing, to which he's said "neither, and that's absolutely the wrong way to think about it." He goes on to explain that win or lose you're playing to learn and improve, your success is about what you learn and the wins will just be a by product.
The people that take a hard line stance that Vince Lombardi's philosophy on winning are sometimes very successful, and sometimes they fail miserably and burn out.
Do you want more tourney success than we have had under Tad? Yes.
Would that have been an absolutely insane standard pre Tad? Yes.
This notion that Tad not vociferously decrying his team's middling tourney results is the reason they haven't gone on a tourney run is just magical thinking that something in the neighborhood of Bobby Knight is the only possible successful temperament.
Tad talking to Drew Goodman was somehow talking to his team?
Of course Tad does not talk to me, he and every other college coach does the rounds and throws out the coach speak to just fill the broadcast and make each game its own event.
I am sure Tad is competitive as hell, and wants to win a National Championship deep deep down like all coaches, but I am simply stating that based on results against the best teams (Arizona) and based on missing tournaments or not advancing farther, or losing at home in NIT games shows your success rates.
CU is a sleeping giant and always will be in my humble opinion, but I understand they deal with a different environment, different institutional challenges, and maybe Tad can reinvigorate his last act, but this years team had everything it needed to at least be a big player, and I am rooting hard for a good weekend next week, and P12 tourney, and maybe some heroic run.
Joe Harrington?
That guy hangs around my Dad's old man softball league back in Maryland. He is thought of fairly highly in the University of Maryland circles, but doesn't speak super highly of his time at Colorado.
Of course he was. You think he was looking to teach Drew Goodman or college basketball fans something? Tad's old and smart enough to know that you only talk to the press to advance your goals.
Last edited:
That's at least two of us.
All your statements are very valid and fit in my own personal coaching career, and I will say that the position that College Basketball and Football coaches are in nowadays is tenuous and challenging, not knowing if your entire team or important parts are gonna just walk out and take the $100k from Duke, so I am never saying that it is not about building up the young man or woman internally and physically, and about creating a cohesive team environment, or about honing the individual skills of each player, and then ultimately pulling the correct levers to put wins on the board. Absolutely not saying it is just about the wins, but at the end of the day, it is about getting the wins. I have huge respect for Tad, and I hope that he has a few weeks of magic up his sleeves.
Just wow. Still talking about institutional investment? RG has at least tried to get the students involved this year (with some success!). For the first time since he came here and dismantled what Bohn built.
So RG is to blame because he hasn’t bought enough pizza, given out enough free t-shirts or doesn’t fly a few hundred students to the conference tournament? Got it.
A bunch of this stuff has been run through over the years, Rick has done about the bare minimum and it has been less than what Mike did for the program. Now with that said Rick had to deal with Mike adding girls Lax when we didn't have enough money to properly equip the team. He's had to deal with a primary concern which is football, which we all know has been terrible.
If you are curious, you can go back and look at where those of us close to the basketball program have seen things we don't love from Rick, it has been discussed a lot over the years and I don't feel like investing the effort to do it for the 5th or 10th or whatever time to re-do it now. There is no denying Rick has done a few game day upgrades (board/beer/floor) that made good sense and have improved my enjoyment of the games. Contrast that though with what he has gotten done elsewhere, IPF, Champions Center, rooftop, TD club, weight room, franklin, etc. etc.
If you want an oversimplified version of how most of us feel about how it seems that Rick looks at Hoops, is that he is like a VP of sales who looks at a non-core BU and says, "Hey, we need the same or better than last year, but you can't have FTE's or marketing dollars."
Last edited:
That has been his biggest failing - wrecked a good thing, probably cost a few home court W's over the decade or so.
In your post your snark is hurting your already minimal credibility in this area. I don't know why you are so confident in your opinions regarding CU's place in the basketball world. When you compared Kansas's institutional investment into basketball with CU's and then didn't find it all that different, you exposed a vast breadth of ignorance. I'm far less knowledgeable than many here, but I've been a season ticket holder for bball since 2008 and have witnessed some things.
Bohn built a strong student culture machine that was paying great dividends. From nothing. I was there, I saw it. RG dismantled it immediately. And yes, doing that involves buying pizzas, reaching out and empowering students, and sometimes giving them real awesome goodies to build an enduring culture of support. Denigrating that effort by Bohn shows just how little you know about what you are talking about.
People who follow basketball intimately and know it far better than I have described CU's place in the P12 pecking order, support wise, as somewhere around 10-11, maybe 12th, out of 12. Tad has done some things to help that, but there is no deep well of support for CU bball. That includes institutional support as well as off the books support. There's a reason Dalton Knecht didn't come here and went to Tennessee despite us being considered a shoe in at first and every single decent guard prospect that we looked at in the transfer portal didn't come here. We have severe limits but are trying to play with the big boys.
RG has done some small things to help the program, but has mostly ignored it for his entire tenure. Tad's been on his own. You think a place with strong institutional support would lose a player to academic issues that then immediately enrolled at ****ing Wake Forest?
Something must have been going on with the c unit that we don't know about. I wonder if they were systematically getting beer to underage students or something. I see no reason you would kill what they had going there.
Cause RG did not value the program. No need to invent things.
None of that explains the terribly inconsistent program over the last few years despite some of the most elite and all around talent in the Tad era.
I’m just wondering what has to happen for most here to question whether it’s time to move on from Tad? Most people seem to be disappointed and upset at yet probably another season without a tournament bid, but perfectly fine with not blaming the coach.
I missed where you said this. What you said was:
I'm not sure I'm working off the same data as you, but what I found online roughly matches up and is from the 2019 season. If this is it, you are SERIOUSLY downplaying the differences in financial support between CU and others, and to say budgets and spending "compare favorably" is an outright lie.
This says that in 2019, KU spent roughly $590K on recruiting and CU spent $160K. This is closer to a $430K difference, but the larger point is that Kansas has more than 3X the recruiting budget than CU (~370% spend). Arkansas spent $424K, which I agree is ~$250K different, but it's over a 2X difference.
One of the big pillars behind the "lack of institutional support" criticism directed at RG is that he lags behind peers in funding BB recruiting, even behind schools with smaller budgets. That link shows that CU in 2019 was DEAD LAST in the Pac12, which was DEAD LAST among P6 conferences in recruiting spend, behind even future MWC schools OSU and WSU.
I did find a comparison of OVERALL budgets that didn't give the recruiting breakout. You can minimize the budgetary differences all you want, but everyone here wants CU to make the tournament annually when 83 different institutions spent more on basketball last year- as a reminder, only 68 make the tournament.
So, no, spending and spending doesn't "compare favorably" with other schools.
The numbers I pulled were from last years AD P&L statements found on both AD websites which breaks down recruiting, travel, etc expenses.
Pivot away from putting your foot in mouth noted.
This has been told to you in many ways, but you seem to be rejecting it because you want to fire Tad and don't like the answer you are getting.
Tad is not an elite coach. He is a good coach though. Much better than CU's norm. Recently, he's had some bad injury luck (last year almost as much as this year with Hadley going out and KJ getting that bad ankle injury than mono), been backstabbed on one notable NBA prospect playing at Wake Forest, made some bad choices and decisions in both recruiting and coaching, and also something has been off with him and this last group of players which has led to more losses than they should have had. Not rocket science.
People don't want to get rid of Tad because the odds are the guy we get to replace him will be much worse because CU basketball lacks support and no one who has watched his treatment of basketball trusts RG to care enough about basketball to get the hire right. Also, RG will not fire a guy who wins basketball games at CU just because some in the fan base want to throw a tantrum because they have no idea about how basketball works at CU.
Let's put it another way: If CU had basketball boosters willing to pay to fire Tad and hire a new coach, RG would do that. We don't. Fin.
I for one do absolutely like the CUEC, but see a few upgrades that would be cool to have.
1. How about a named sponsor
2. Each entrance would be nice if there were lobbies outside each entrance to provide more general circulation space and to move the security outside the main doors. Also, maybe even on the East side there is a food court of some kind jutting out towards those outdoor courts.
3. There is room for Suites or Party decks all around the inside upper ring area.
Otherwise it is a nice arena with good sight lines and it is great for circulation and is not a detractor towards being a great program.
1. How about a named sponsor
2. Each entrance would be nice if there were lobbies outside each entrance to provide more general circulation space and to move the security outside the main doors. Also, maybe even on the East side there is a food court of some kind jutting out towards those outdoor courts.
3. There is room for Suites or Party decks all around the inside upper ring area.
Otherwise it is a nice arena with good sight lines and it is great for circulation and is not a detractor towards being a great program.
Why exactly do you see CU as a sleeping giant? Nothing in their history shows they can be. Not in a talent rich area, no deep donor pool, no historical success, minimal institutional support, passive fan base.
If you actually read my initial posts in this thread I am far more measured than you’re making me out to be. I’ve never said they need to fire Tad. I have said multiple times that Tad is an above average HC that made CU a respectable program when everything throughout history suggests CU is anything but that. The job he’s done is commendable, but maybe it’s just run its course and it’s time to move on, assuming the goal is to get the program to the next level, which I don’t believe requires a massive amount of institutional investment.
It’d be like saying it requires Alabama type investment to get CU football to win 8 games consistently. It doesn’t, but it does require finding a coach who can do it.