1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Talk of a Division IV? No matter what, current structure must change

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by cmgoods, May 30, 2014.

  1. cmgoods

    cmgoods Olympic Sports Mod Club Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2011
    Messages:
    12,236
    Likes Received:
    470

    Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/co...-structure-sec-spring-meetings/#ixzz33EtDxman
     
  2. buffedup

    buffedup Cooler than a Popsicle Stand. Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2006
    Messages:
    7,523
    Likes Received:
    808
    I'll be very very interested when this is voted on in August. The future of college football will be drastically changed either way, but especially if the Power 5 are forced to basically break from the small conferences.
     
  3. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,486
    Likes Received:
    16,061
    Change absolutely has to happen.

    Alabama and Troy are not peer football programs.

    But in the current setup, the NCAA pretends that they are.

    And since there are more Troys than Alabamas, the NCAA votes and rulings have historically favored the little guy.

    This has resulted in more and more schools joining FBS in football and/or basketball because the money is there. Not that they earn it. But they get subsidies and bigger payouts from playing at the big schools by being in the FBS.

    Finally, the P5 schools have said "Enough!". And since they control the money, we'll see the real Golden Rule in effect with the P5 schools getting their way.
     
  4. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    48,393
    Likes Received:
    4,414
    Makes me feel dirty. I don't like this, but I would like it a lot less if I was a CSU fan, on the outside looking in.
     
    Highlander likes this.
  5. SuperiorBuff

    SuperiorBuff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,732
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    I agree. I don't like it at all.
     
  6. InTheBuff

    InTheBuff Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    11,228
    Likes Received:
    487
    I don't like it BUT am glad CU's a PAC 12 member.
     
  7. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Messages:
    26,377
    Likes Received:
    2,310
    The lower division schools don't have much of a choice if the power schools decide to push it. As stated the alternative is to form a separate governing body and cut the others off entirely.

    This would be very difficult for the schools that rely on basketball for their athletic identity and revenues. If the football powers separate they are likely to make it in all sports. At this point the question is would they allow the basketball schools to become a part or would those schools be left out.

    The balance of fan interest lies in the major conferences so those left out would be relegated to secondary status, and money.
     
  8. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    48,393
    Likes Received:
    4,414
    It's a lot easier to schedule a 12 game football season without non BCS schools in it than it would be to schedule a 30 game basketball season without those same schools. As has been pointed out here repeatedly, we and Utah are the only BCS schools in this time zone. If we can't schedule non BCS schools for basketball games, we are in a serious quandry.
     
  9. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,486
    Likes Received:
    16,061
    I'm not sure why people "don't like it".

    Is this a gut reaction based on a natural inclination to root for the little guy?

    Or are there honest reasons why you think it is important that North Texas and Texas should be in the same NCAA football division with the same set of rules fitting both programs equally well?

    We do have different governing rules for FCS and FBS. Different governing rules for D1 and D2 and D3.
     
  10. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    48,393
    Likes Received:
    4,414
    I don't like it because it's another step away from amateur athletics, and one step closer to NFL - lite. I accept that college athletics is a business, but I don't have to like it.
     
  11. SuperiorBuff

    SuperiorBuff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,732
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    Absolutely
     
  12. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,486
    Likes Received:
    16,061
    Big boy college football being NFL Lite isn't something I've had to accept, because that is what it has always been. At least since the NFL came into existence. (Before that, colleges filled out their rosters with ringers by renting professional athletes to be some of the "amateur" players on their teams.)

    It's a great system. The top 10% will go on to make fat paychecks for a few years in the NFL. Most of the rest at least got to be able to keep playing football beyond high school while getting a college degree in the bargain. Beats the hell out of a professional minor league where 90% of guys would have a 3-5 year career making less than half of what a fast food worker makes and then have no education to fall back on when it was over (see Minor League Baseball).

    What I see these rules changes doing is that it will allow the programs with the resources to do more for the athletes that play for them. I don't know how that is a bad thing.
     
  13. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,553
    Likes Received:
    207
    Who is Colorado going to beat, without minor conference teams on the schedule?
     
  14. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    48,393
    Likes Received:
    4,414
    What happens when each college is given the green light to pay it's athletes whatever it deems necessary? That's the direction we're headed, I'm afraid. Just because we're included in this little group now, doesn't mean at some point in the future we won't see a group that consists of Alabama, Florida, Texas, Michigan, Ohio State and Southern Cal decide that they need to play by different rules than the rest of US. After all, they bring in the most money, right? You're saying that Troy and Alabama shouldn't be on the same level. Fine, I can see that logic. But in another 30 years, will the difference between CU and USC be the same as the difference between Troy and Alabama? Might be. What's being proposed is a progression of a bad trend, IMO.
     
  15. Uncle Ken

    Uncle Ken Orr no morr Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    17,361
    Likes Received:
    5,194
    Oklahoma. Just like we did all through the 90s.
     
  16. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,553
    Likes Received:
    207

    The Buffs did have a nice run against OU --- 15 years ago.
     
  17. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,486
    Likes Received:
    16,061
    Slippery slope arguments.

    I don't worry so much about the hyper-elites deciding they want their own set of rules. There are just too few of them. All but Texas and Notre Dame have realized they make more money with a socialistic conference system than they ever could with their own independent deals. (And they may both be caving on that philosophy after looking at the numbers.)
     
  18. Uncle Ken

    Uncle Ken Orr no morr Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    17,361
    Likes Received:
    5,194
    I hear you acknowledging that both schools are due for a change of fortune.
     
  19. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,553
    Likes Received:
    207

    Riiiiggghhhhtttt.
     
  20. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2010
    Messages:
    26,503
    Likes Received:
    761
    :rolling_eyes:


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  21. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    48,393
    Likes Received:
    4,414

    Just because it's a "slippery slope argument" doesn't invalidate it. It's a concern of mine. You asked why I don't like this, and that's my answer. And, seeing as we're already 2/3 of the way down that particular slope, I think it's valid. 60 years ago, there was no difference between Alabama and Army. Now there is. What's going to happen in another 60 years?
     
  22. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,486
    Likes Received:
    16,061
    If it's a true slippery slope argument (chain of events that would follow is inevitable), then that does invalidate it as a logical fallacy.

    But as a concern, I think expressing slippery slope cautions is useful. It helps make certain that reasonable people carry the day.

    I'd also say that life is about change. In 60 years, a different setup for college football may very well make sense. The world changes and life marches on. Army isn't a national power. Florida State isn't an all-girl college. I'm ok with that. Maybe in 60 years we'll see the University of Beijing as a college football powerhouse. If I'm still alive, I'll be too old to care.
     
  23. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    48,393
    Likes Received:
    4,414
    Do you not have any concerns about where CU might fit in to the college athletics landscape after all these changes are implemented? I don't see this as a positive thing for CU. At best, it's neutral, at worst, it's damaging. The best we can hope for is that we aren't impacted much at all.
     
  24. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,553
    Likes Received:
    207

    Too few of them??

    There are only 64 teams in the "Power 5" conferences (SEC, ACC, Big 10, Big 12, Pac-12). I'll add in Notre Dame to bring it to 65 teams.

    Of that group - I would consider the following to be "hyper-elite":

    Texas
    Ohio State
    Michigan
    Alabama
    Florida
    Texas A&M
    LSU
    Oklahoma
    Auburn
    Wisconsin
    Tennessee
    Florida State
    Arkansas
    Iowa
    Oregon
    Michigan State
    Georgia
    South Carolina
    Washington
    Nebraska

    That's 1/3 of the teams in the "Division IV" who are "hyper elite".

    On top of that, there are probably quite a few more who could easily be considered "elite".
     
  25. J.R. Ewing

    J.R. Ewing Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2011
    Messages:
    13,814
    Likes Received:
    3,567
    Iowa is hyper elite?
     
  26. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,486
    Likes Received:
    16,061
    I don't think it hurts CU. Buffs are not at the bottom of BCS in terms of revenue and revenue potential. We're also located in a major growth state, which makes the future bright from that aspect. CU's never had a problem competing with the best when it had its house in order. And I believe that this is something that could very well lead to CU commanding a much bigger audience within the state and within border states of Wyoming and New Mexico since we'll be the big boy team from the region with clear demarcation.
     
  27. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    12,553
    Likes Received:
    207

    $100 million in revenue = hyper elite.
     
  28. CsquaredCC

    CsquaredCC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    939
    Likes Received:
    74
    I am starting to wonder about this as well. It will be interesting to see where things go after these current television deals expire. Are the "hyper-elites" as they have been called going to want to further consolidate their earning potential? That certainly seems to be the trend. Does USC really need a conference that includes Washington State or Oregon State taking an equal cut of the money? I am beginning to think this is all leading to some form of contraction which eventually ends up at a place where you are left with semi-pro style conferences. Those programs that have the alumni and resources to pay to play will survive. Those that don't will fall out of the "club".
     
  29. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,486
    Likes Received:
    16,061
    Did you miss the thread where we posted the comps on Arkansas and CU?

    btw -- damn, dude. You have a ridiculous midlands & south bias in your opinion on this. No USC even? South Carolina in there but not UCLA? No Penn State?
     
  30. J.R. Ewing

    J.R. Ewing Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2011
    Messages:
    13,814
    Likes Received:
    3,567
    Against Big 10 teams, they only hold winning records against Indiana, Mich St, & NW.:huh: Their records against Michigan and Ohio St are simply brutal.
     

Share This Page