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Texas to the SEC? But what about a Pac 16?

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by Buffnik, Apr 28, 2010.

  1. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    I never thought this was that strong of a possibility because UT is so focused on its academic reputation. They didn't see the SEC as a good fit last time around and, afaik, the SEC has not increased admission standards to UT levels.

    However, ESPN rumors had this to say this morning:

    Paul Finebaum of the Mobile Press-Register recounts how Texas nearly joined the SEC back in 1990, when the league wanted to expand so it could hold a championship game.

    "The one that made the most sense was Texas," former SEC commissioner Harvey Schiller told Finebaum. "I spent some time with DeLoss Dodds (the Texas athletic director) and he really wanted to join the conference."

    But the Texas legislature found out about the plans and told the SEC that it couldn't take Texas without also taking Texas A&M, which is why the two are now always paired in realignment scenarios.

    Well, Dodds is still the Longhorns athletic director, and while the school has a pretty good arrangement with the Big 12 (getting the largest share of revenue), it's not a huge leap to suggest that if the Big 12 appears to be on its way toward extinction (which would happen if the Pac-10 took Colorado and the Big Ten took Missouri and Nebraska), then Dodds would have no problem guiding his school to the SEC again.

    ******************

    Here's what I'm wondering:

    What if the Pac 10 would agree to go to 16 instead of 12?

    Imagine if they took CU and Utah as has been discussed, but then further expanded by taking Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma and Kansas. Then, put all the new teams plus Arizona and Arizona State into one side with the Pacific Coast schools on the other side. That would give the conference the Houston, Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, Denver, Salt Lake City, Kansas City and Oklahoma City markets without compromising academic integrity.

    The key to that happening, imo, is the Big 10 raiding the midwest for both Missouri and Nebraska while expanding to 16 teams.

    What would you guys think of a Pac-West conference that laid out like this:

    Pacific Division
    USC
    UCLA
    Cal
    Stanford
    Oregon
    Oregon State
    Washington
    Washington State

    Western Division
    Texas
    Texas A&M
    Oklahoma
    Kansas
    Colorado
    Utah
    Arizona
    Arizona State

    I actually think that would be awesome and I'd put our conference up against anyone.
     
  2. tante

    tante Club Member Club Member

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    the way the PAC 10 is dragging ass, they might be the PAC:6 before they know it.
     
  3. GoBuffs08

    GoBuffs08 Well-Known Member

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    If there were going to raid that many teams from the Big 12, they would take the corn over Utah.
     
  4. OKCBuff

    OKCBuff Well-Known Member

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    OU and OSU can't be separated, much like UT and A&M. OSU alums dominate the state legislature and won't allow OSU to be left behind.
     
  5. 77buff

    77buff Well-Known Member

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    That's a laugh, it's a hell of alot easier to get into Texas than Vanderbilt. Since when does Kansas State have high admission standards?
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2010
  6. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    I'd rather stay in a gutted Big 12 than go with UT to the Pac.
     
  7. 92Buff

    92Buff Well-Known Member

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    I woould also add that I have every confidence in the fact that UT would happily lower athletic entry requirements to be similar to those of any conference they would play in. Something I wish our school would do.
     
  8. Clean Undies

    Clean Undies Flagship of the 12-Pac Club Member

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    No Colorado fan really cares about the fate of OSU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Kstate or ISU.
    In the opening scenario, the fate of those schools go unanswered. Let's assume Mizzou and NU go to Big 10 Ten and set those aside.

    We've learned from the establishment of the B12 that state legislatures get involved in packaged deals. Will the State of Texas force a package with Baylor & TT when approving the fate of UT-A&M? Will Oklahoma lawmakers let OU go without securing OSU's future? Same type discussion for Kansas...

    The reason I bring this up has to do with an assessment of clout. Is it possible that the states of Oklahoma and Kansas have more leverage than the Colorado politicos?

    On one side, the Denver market is more attractive than OKC and KC based on size. But on the other side, the Colorado state legislature has a horrible track record when it comes to going to bat for CU and especially CU athletics.

    Maybe Boone Pickins and a very motivated OK governer might be able to push for OSU at the expense of CU. Maybe the TX legislature could successfully lobby the Pac10 leadership to bump Utah and CU for Baylor and Tech.

    Other than the political realities that exist in the establishment of a new conference, the conference that's layed out above would definately be a powerhouse, and would be better for CU than what we have now.
     
  9. ScottyBuff

    ScottyBuff Well-Known Member

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    I could just as easily see the elite Pac-10 members wanting to leave their "deadweight" school(s) such as Washington State and maybe even Oregon State behind in Pac-10/Big 12 "Superconference". If it is formed similar to the way the Big 12 was, it would leave the old traditions behind and only take the 16 most powerful/popular/competitive/academic programs.

    Washington
    Oregon
    California
    Stanford
    UCLA
    USC
    Arizona
    Arizona State

    Utah
    Colorado
    Texas
    Texas A&M
    Oklahoma
    Kansas
    Missouri
    With the last member being one of: Texas Tech, Baylor, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Iowa State, TCU, New Mexico, Hawaii, and BYU. Most likely 16th member being Oklahoma State. (assuming Nebraska goes to Big Ten).

    There have been enough "rumors" and at least one substantied comment, made by Washington AD Scott Woodward's comments that there could even be a merger of the Pac-10 and Big 12.

    The political situation should only directly affect the invitation of one state school versus another (Kansas and Kansas State). With more than enough potential members however the leverage of those state legistlators would be diminished. If Kansas State got enough clout to force Kansas' President from accepting the invitation, then BOTH of them get left out. What governor/representative would be that foolish?

    The remaining schools, in addition to the MWC members and a few elite WAC members, would still form a very good conference with solid market appeal, but a lower academic profile and lower national sports appeal.

    Washington State
    Boise State
    Oregon State
    BYU
    Fresno State
    San Diego State
    Hawaii
    UNLV

    New Mexico
    Texas Tech
    Air Force
    Colorado State
    Wyoming
    Kansas State
    Iowa State
    With the 16th member coming from either; UTEP, TCU, Baylor, Houston, SMU, Tulsa. With TCU being the most likely candidate for this conference to recapture some of the DFW market.

    Obviously all pie-in-the-sky type conjecture, but could be really interesting to consider such a "superconference"
     
  10. SINKRATZ

    SINKRATZ Club Member Club Member

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    Mizzou and Kansas aren't nearly enough of an upgrade over Wash St and Oregon St to justify the political backlash from dropping schools IMO. Plus the Pac 10 loves their natural rivalries and travel partner system, so I don't see that happening.
     
  11. CUwhit21

    CUwhit21 Club Member Club Member

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    Since when does the academic reputation of one school speak for the whole conference?

    And as far as business schools go, Texas is one of the best.
     
  12. ScottyBuff

    ScottyBuff Well-Known Member

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    If you wiped the slate clean out west and had to pick 16 schools to form a "super-conference" with that needed to address: Academics, Athletics (football/basketball especially), and TV markets; then which would you take?

    It really isn't the Pac-10 "dropping" them but a new conference emerging from the previous ones.

    Not very likely of course, but there seems to be be motivation from many of the schools, just not sure if there is the cojones.
     
  13. SteelCity Buff

    SteelCity Buff Member

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    I heard Bruce Feldman, whom I think is pretty good for a national guy, say on the Van Pelt show yesterday that some constituents in the Pac want to stay as is- travel partners, round-robin format, etc. Lots grist in the mill, though, as the article in SI this week suggests something different, and Henderson weighed in the Post today, suggesting CU is almost a lock. Of course his sources were the Oregon coaches (good work, Henderson, you ducky shill!).
     
  14. superdeluxe

    superdeluxe New Member

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    Maybe Scott is just playing it close to the vest, just because he is not talking about in the media, does not mean nothing is going on.
     
  15. superdeluxe

    superdeluxe New Member

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    If there were no political backlash with WSU and Oregon State, The Pac-10 would drop them quick if they could get their hands on Missouri/Nebraska
     
  16. SINKRATZ

    SINKRATZ Club Member Club Member

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    Maybe, but if my grandmother had wheels she would be a bicycle.
     
  17. Ruckus

    Ruckus Peep my words. Club Member

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    In a way, I hear she already is.
     
    66BUFF likes this.
  18. UrbanaBuff

    UrbanaBuff Member

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    Indeed, the SEC and Big XII are the worst academic BCS conferences... by far. Hard to argue who's better, but I'd probably go SEC largely because of Vanderbilt. Texas is our best school, yet they'd be middle-of-the-road in most other conferences. That is sad.

    That's why I can't wait for CU to leave this craptastic conference.
     
  19. SINKRATZ

    SINKRATZ Club Member Club Member

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    You shut your mouth when you're talking to me.
     
  20. OKCBuff

    OKCBuff Well-Known Member

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    "Will Oklahoma lawmakers let OU go without securing OSU's future?"

    As I said in another post, no. There are a lot of powerful OSU alums in the state legislature here. Moreso than OU alums, surprisingly. If the SEC wants OU, they'd have to take OSU, just like the Texas scenario.
     
  21. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Weird. I just went to the Rivals board and pennabuff posted the same exact Pac-16 thing that I did... and said that it's something he has seen being kicked around. (I sincerely hope that my mental masturbation isn't considered a "source". :lol:) Anyhow, maybe there's something to it?

    OKC - I agree that the politics are the toughest thing here. But OSU is a really tough sell for any conference. They've got a history of having illiterates like Dexter Manley eligible to play football for them (bring down the academic prestige of just about any conference they'd join), don't draw cable homes in addition to what OU delivers, and aren't much of a national brand. If the Big 12 breaks up, there won't be a lot of suitors for Okie State and it's more likely that if they are tied to OU it will do more to hold OU back than pull OSU along.
     
  22. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

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    No way in Tebow's green earth do I see the Pac-10 going for a scenario where Oregon and UW both drop their in-state rivals, just to add 2 more schools that would require much more travel, and to end up in a conference that could be 8 former Pac-10 teams and 7 former Big XII teams. Not. Going. To. Happen. Not to mention the fact that Oregon State, at least, is pretty competitive in every major sport (if not necessarily championship caliber). Might they look at a 6 team expansion that would bring in, say, Texas and aTm along with CU and Utah? Probably, if they could get the right fit for the other 2 teams. But it would have to be a DAMN good fit in order to justify bringing 6 more mouths to the table. Let's face it, if there was really mutual interest between the Pac-10 and the Texass schools, we wouldn't be talking about CU and Utah being realistic possibilities. They would jump on UT and aTm. By far their most lucrative option to get to 12 schools. The fact that CU/Utah is the most widely reported option tells me that people in Texass and the Pac-10 offices both realize that they aren't the best fit for each other.

    My guess? CU joins Utah in jumping into the Pac-12. UT and aTm, and maybe the Oklahoma schools, bolt for an expanded SEC. The Big Televen picks off at least one school from the Mizzou/UNL/Kansas group (probably just Mizzou, unless they decide to go to 16 or more...). And the rest of the Big XII raids the MWC and Conf. USA in order to put together enough schools to survive... :huh:
     
  23. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    If we end up with any other of the Big 8 or Big 12 schools going with us to a new conference, Kansas is my top choice. Nebraska would be next.

    In fact, my ideal Pac would be a Pac-14 where CU joined along with Utah, Kansas and Nebraska.
     
  24. superdeluxe

    superdeluxe New Member

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    Nick Daschel at Bustersports talked about a 16 team Pac-10 league.
     
  25. superdeluxe

    superdeluxe New Member

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    16 makes more sense, 2 8 team leagues.
     
  26. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Why does 8 make more sense than 7? 7 balances by giving you 3 home and 3 away within your division.

    I'm sure I'm missing something since the talk always seems to be 16 instead of 14. What am I not seeing?
     
  27. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    A 16-team Pac would be a difficult sell for me. Everybody is going to want to play at least one game a year in SoCal. That's not going to happen in a 16-team league. I think the schools that are there now would have a hard time agreeing on such an arrangement.
     
  28. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    This is America. Bigger = Better. 16 is bigger than 14.
     
  29. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Of course. WTF was I thinking? :lol:
     
  30. OKCBuff

    OKCBuff Well-Known Member

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    I don't disagree. But the only conference I see OU heading to if the Big 12 breaks apart is the SEC, and that's only if the Texas schools go too. OSU's academic heritage isn't any better or worse than some of the SEC diploma mills so I don't see that as a big issue. Plus, the profile and stature of Boone and the money he's poured into the program will make OSU more attractive (as a pair with OU) than you might think.

    I really think if the SEC expands it will be to destroy the only competition it has -- the Big 12 South. Take UT, A&M, OSU and OU (four best football programs at the moment) and you make the SEC even stronger and give Arkansas and LSU four new teams that are closer to them than many other SEC campuses.

    I agree OSU wouldn't go anywhere on its own, but when you realize that a handful of Tech legislators and Ann Richards got Tech and Baylor into what was supposed to be the new Big 10, it wouldn't be a big jump to add OSU into an SEC with a new western front.
     

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