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The Tad Boyle Era: Perception vs Reality

Discussion in 'Colorado Basketball Message Board' started by J-R-K, Jan 22, 2015.

  1. J-R-K

    J-R-K Well-Known Member

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    I realize that under Tad this program has had an unprecedented level of success. That being said in five years despite having some pretty good talent ultimately we've missed the NCAA tournament twice (counting this season), only won a single NCAA tournament game in three trips there, never entered the tournament as any kind of a notable seed, and have only made a few brief cameos in the top-25. if you're grading on curve based on CU basketball history this has been a great 5-year stretch, however going by just general standards it's solid but nothing special. Yet Tad has been anointed this deity-like status amongst CU fans, and that's not hyperbole. I'm extremely grateful for the success the guy has had I'm certainly not saying that I'm not happy with him as our coach or that he should be fired, I just think the amount of love he gets both from CU fans as well as on a national level is completely disproportionate to what he's actually done. And no I'm not just capitalizing on a poor season or tonight's loss to make this point, I've thought and written about this before.

    I also think to some degree he has ridden a wave of fortunate circumstances. He inherited a very good team from Bzdelik and in turn not surpassingly had some success. He then utilized this success as well as the newly completed facilities to land some good players. There's also some fortune in having some of his early recruits turn out as good as they did as this is outside of the norm when you're not recruiting amongst elite players. The general medicroity of the last eight players we've signed is indicative of this-law of averages, and certainly doesn't bode well for the immediate future of the program.

    The fact that many of the same problems seem to rear their head every season and haven't been fixed is troubling. These include an often clueless looking offensive system, lack of assists, poor execution coming out of timeouts and tat he end of halves and turn a poor record in close games.

    Long story short: Tad's tenure here has been good but not that good, we've arguably underachieved based on the talent we've had and it would be optimistic to assume that he will be able to bring in that same level of talent in the future, and his in-game coaching and general system leave a lot to be desired. And yet everyone seems firmly planted on the guy's d*ck when really a simple peck on the cheek is all that's warranted.

    #RollTadToTheNIT #IfWereLucky #InTadYouShouldKindOfTrust #IfYouThinkHesGoingToKansas #YoureAnIdiot #IsItSeptermberYet #OkMaybeThatsTakingThingsToFar #AtLeastHesNotMacintyre
     
  2. CVilleBuff

    CVilleBuff Club Member Club Member

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    No disagreement for once. Love what Tad's done, but questioning certain decisions shouldn't be some sort of crime. This year is a gigantic failure. Much is due to bad luck with injuries, but there are obvious problems aside from just that. Next season now looms very large (I know someone will try to twist this into me implying Tad's on the hot seat so I'll be clear: No.). We've got to have a big season and regain the momentum or else it'll affect recruiting and we'll risk being a middling team for the foreseeable future. We have to have a big season with Josh in a Buff uniform.

    The Pac also isn't going to remain this weak forever. Utah has already passed us for now despite being a million miles behind just 2 years ago. Oregon State is gaining momentum quickly. UCLA will obviously be back sooner rather than later and the Oregon/Cal/Washington tier of the conference will rarely be as weak as they are right now.

    And it should be said that whether unfair or not, when you play this brand of basketball that is not aesthetically pleasing (to be gentle about it) it will bring forth more criticism when the losses come. That's just the reality of it.

    The injury situation sucks, but to be sitting January without a winning record alongside the dregs of college basketball is humiliating for all involved. @ ASU/UW was the "last stand" key swing to get this season back on track to some semblance of respectability and we blew both. Now it's just about averting complete and utter disaster.
     
  3. HRBuff

    HRBuff Club Member Club Member

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    Hard not to agree. Love Tad but the offense and set plays have been a big disappointment. We need an Xs and Os assistant real bad.
     
  4. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Get on your knees and be thankful for Tad.

    I have my criticisms, but they start from that foundation.
     
  5. jcatcher

    jcatcher Club Member Club Member

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    x100

    Short memories... Yes, Tad took over Bzdelic's team, but he immediately had them playing 10x better than Bz ever did, and he's been a disaster at Wake Forest. Look what he did at UNC. 4-24 and a couple years later, someone took over his team and his players and they won the Big Sky and went to the Dance. Last year he was 14-2 and about to be 15-2 and on the verge of the Top 10.

    This year he's had a huge amount of injuries (not much he can do about that) and some disciplinary issues (Why? No idea, but it isn't normal for his teams) so there's barely been a game when his starting five actually started. I mentioned this in another thread, but Wisconsin's PG hurt his foot a couple of games ago, and the last game was the first one in five years (!) where a regular starter missed a start. Think of that. We've had six in the last three games, and they were two of the team's three best players.

    And let's look at the records of the teams CU has lost to this year:

    Wyoming 16-3
    Georgia 12-5
    CSU 17-2
    GW 15-4
    Even Hawaii is 14-6, including a one point OT loss to Wichita State
    @ Utah
    @AZ
    ASU is 10-9, but it's hard to find a truly bad loss on their schedule.
    UDub 14-4

    We're having a down, but very unlucky year. This happens to good teams.

    Re: Boring style. Are they saying that in Charlottesville? Because UVA is horrible to watch.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2015
  6. fatbuff

    fatbuff Well-Known Member

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    As long as he loses by less points next year, I'm good.
     
  7. buffedup

    buffedup Cooler than a Popsicle Stand. Club Member

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    Tad's tenure is starting to feel a little like the CU MO when it comes to collegiate sports. We can't have nice things, and when we do, they don't last long.

    1. McCartney - He transformed Colorado into a legitimate national power that was consistently competing for and even winning national championships. Before he could truly transform Colorado into a legitimate blue blood program, and at the peak of the program's apex, he quit...to preach. Probably a first in the history of college football.

    2. Boyle - Had a legitimate top 10 team last year that would have likely run into the 2nd weekend of the tournament last year and competed with Arizona for the Pac 12 championship. This would have likely allowed Boyle to leverage the success onto the recruiting trail by pointing out the upward trend of his tenure at Colorado. Instead our star player goes down with a season ending injury and Colorado has been the definition of mediocre since.

    *sigh*
     
  8. Highlander

    Highlander Club Member Club Member

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    I'm not going to judge this team's performance while 2 of the top 3 players are out. I will be super interested in seeing how they do when JS is back to full strength and we get clear of the suspension/injury.
     
  9. tante

    tante Club Member Club Member

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    People are complaining about the team standing around on offense, how does XJ and Scott help that.
     
  10. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    By adding about 25 ppg

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
     
  11. Goose

    Goose Hoops Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    Can someone please decide and let me know? Are we the worst team in history or the greatest team ever? I just need to know for my own notes.

    Thanks.
     
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  12. Scotch

    Scotch Registered User Club Member Junta Member

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    Tad is still the man, but there is plenty question for sure.

    Just one of those years. I'm guessing Scott won't play much the rest of the season, back injuries don't seem to heal very quickly. Hope I'm wrong. Get XJ healthy and head screwed on straight, and this team can still finish strong and make a run in the Pac-12 tourney.
     
  13. GoBuffs88

    GoBuffs88 Active Member

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    Roll MotherF***ing Tad.
     
  14. rosstr

    rosstr Well-Known Member

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    Sorry man. Tad has his faults. His offenses and set pieces are mostly lousy and this year is a massive underachievement. However he is an excellent recruiter and has achieved unprecedented success at a dead program.

    All you have to do is look at that utter loser in the football offices of Dal Ward to get a picture of life after Tad.
     
  15. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    This season is kind of stuck in a pergatory of injured stars and inexperienced youth.
     
  16. aghcsm

    aghcsm Well-Known Member

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    It's hard (for many) to be objective when fans have emotional ties to the team. After UCLA & USC the team was incredible and finally on track. I recall comments that Tad must have given them an amazing motivational speech after the Hawaiian adventure. Now 4 straight losses and the team is crap. Realistically, it's a decent team (upper half of PAC12) when healthy and XJ is behaving, but not much different from the team that lost to Pitt last year.. Health, JF and a fresh start next year will give the Buffs a chance for a top-4 conference finish. And while the Sophomore class may not be outstanding, several are decent players now getting some playing time that should improve their contribution next year.
     
  17. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    Just to play the other side of the coin:


    All of this is accurate - as is the the following: Tad is tied for the most NCAA appearances in school history (including when it was the inferior tourney), Tad has half the NCAA appearances in the past 50 years, Half the 20 win seasons in CU history, the fastest time to 100 wins in CU history, the winningest % in CU history, 1 of our 2 conference titles in the last 50 years, and 1 of our 2 NCAA wins.

    Yes if you compare us to historical top-25 programs it is nothing special, but ignoring where we came from and who we are seems rather pointless. It is roughly akin to saying well you know Harbaugh was 29-12 and only won 1 bowl game at Stanford. Or what Erickson did at OSU wasnt impressive, or Barney at northwestern.

    That will happen when Boyle's teams can draw 2x more for a half baked open practice than we could for opening night a few years ago. It will happen when you hadn't seen the NCAA tourney in nearing 10 years or won a game in it in 15, it will happen when your last conf title was in 1969.

    Simply getting out of your own way, using the cards you are dealt and winning is a skill. Ask Michigan Era RichRod or Dan Hawkins.

    You hit on some you miss on some, I have less concern with the last 8 players taken that I do with some of the end of season fliers we have taken on players. Certainly there have been enough head scratchers in this space, but there have also been wins of those 8 I'd say the jury is out still on 6.

    We certainly we have seen issues that are very similar in each season, the offensive organization being a common thread, end of half execution at times, and my favorite to harp on - the hockey substitutions. However Boyle's record in close games is not what you would assert, it has been bad only this year. He is 31-15 in games decided by 2 possessions or less and 4-4 in OT games; this year has been bad with Boyle collecting 1/3 of the close losses of his Colorado tenure and winning only 1 close game. prior to this year he was 29-10 in 2 possession games.

    This seems like a contradiction to me either the recruiting has been mediocre the last 2 years and we are achieving exactly that or it has been ok and we are underachieving. Dan Hanner has an article on this that i cant find right now but it has Boyle as just a hair above average in player development which if we accept as that case would point to him recruiting pretty well.

    Either way when you move up the the coach dating ladder from a 2's & 3's to a 7 it shouldn't be unexpected that people fall all-over themselves about it, especially not when the flagship program at the university is in the midst of potentially its worst run ever.
     
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  18. tante

    tante Club Member Club Member

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    If this is your first year following Colorado basketball, then I can see how you would be down on Boyle. This is a tough year for him and it seems like everything that can possibly go wrong has happened. You see a team that has the ball with under a minute at home, the game is tied at 50 and they call a timeout and the play drawn up results in a turnover and they lose the game. You see a team that struggles to inbound the ball. You see a team that is stagnant on offense, making them easy to defend.

    But if you take a step back and look back over the past 20 years, or 40 years and realized that we sucked so bad in basketball. We had games with less than 1000 fans in attendance. We could maybe sniff a ncaa tournament appearance ONCE in a decade. Tad is the victim of his own success and he absolutely gets a free pass this season, next season and at least one more after that. It remains to be seen if we turn into a slightly worse version of Washington under Romar, which is the track we are headed on now.
     
  19. Buffaloup

    Buffaloup New Member

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    Boyle's offense is vanilla but still better than what Buzz ran where Nate would bring the ball up and then run to the corner and stand there for the rest of the possession.
     
  20. Buffs35

    Buffs35 Well-Known Member

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    I like Tad, but if he is such a great recruiter, why isn't there a Pac-12 caliber PG on the floor? If the Buffs were truly a good team, Skia would be a 6th man, not the go-to guy. Maybe he is a great recruiter, but I feel like we have a bunch of tweeners.
     
  21. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    Can we stop with the Ski being the 6th man? We don't have a Pac 12 PG right now because we missed on the 2012 class, were leveraging a tournament run last year and that went FUBAR once Spencer went down, and our future PG has spent most of this season injured.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
     
  22. blynch32

    blynch32 Member

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    Let me start by saying that I think Tad is the guy we want in Colorado.

    His offense doesn't fit the personnel anymore. His offense was great when we went 7 deep, and one or two of those 7 guys were Tunks and Chen. It was to our advantage to slow the game down, play our main players as many minutes as possible, and minimize the lack of depth. The team is deeper, with more talent and versatility, and needs an over haul to fit a team that goes 9-10 deep when healthy. His plays out of timeouts suck, no other way to put it, and nobody here can put their finger on if it's players not executing, or if it's bad coaching. He can recruit, he has passion, I don't think we want to play the game of "who else could we get to coach here".

    This team is lacking desire/heart, and the sad truth in hoops is if you lack that, you can have all the talent in the world and still not be successful. Like I stated in another post, I believe this years team is suffering some serious chemistry woes, and lack of junior/senior leadership on and off the floor. Who the culprit is for the on floor leadership could real easily be Ski, or XJ (the easy scape goats)....or you could go another route and say that when your best player is Josh and he doesn't lead, it hurts the team. I think the team has grown so reliant on Booker shooting, XJ shooting, and Scott getting the left over touches, that players having to shoot has obviously been a shock to them. No matter who you think is to blame, everyone on this team should shoulder some of the load, including Tad.

    My theory, right or wrong is that I think Tad has always relied heavily on guys that can create shots for themselves and teammates in this offense, and when you don't have that "guy", the offense doesn't work. (Higgins, Burks, C. Brown, Spencer) I think Hopkins will turn into that guy next year, and we've seen signs of that transformation beginning. But I still say that old offense for when CU was going 7 deep, (and not a real good 7 deep) should be done. Like several posters on here have stated, use altitude and our depth to our advantage, push the tempo. With the way this team has performed this year, I have no idea why future recruits who are on the fence about coming to CU over bigger programs would choose CU, based on style of play.
     
  23. buffs

    buffs Club Member Club Member

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    I think our basketball team has the right coach for our program. The key to long term, consistent success at both the pro and collegiate level is coaching stability.

    And from someone who was literally the only fan in the stands at the end of some games when I was at CU, I give Tad a lot of leeway. Years worth.
     
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  24. Crash Davis

    Crash Davis MA....THE MEATLOAF!!! Club Member

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    I'm confused......you say the recent recruits have been mediocre players, but we are underachieving based on how much talent we have?? Can't have it both ways.

    I like Tad. Do I recognize that there are some legitimate criticisms/concers? Absolutely, and I share some of them.

    Is he Pitino or Krzyzewski? Pretty obvious that he's not at this point. At the same time, let's remember that those guys have been head coaches for 30+ years. Tad's in his 9th year, and just his 5th year at a major school. He still has some growing to do as a coach. Let's be patient and give him some time to see if he can work through some of these issues.

    Also FWIW, I respect him even more after last night for trying to instill some discipline and suspending XJ for a game where we obviously could've used him.
     
  25. TimmyDUBs

    TimmyDUBs Dirty haole Club Member

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    Back spasms aren't a serious back injury. They just mess you up for a short amount of time. He shouldn't be feeling anymore effects from that anymore.
     
  26. jgisland

    jgisland Club Member Club Member

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    Is this real life? so rub some dirt on it and get back in there, no excuses, you're fine.
     
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  27. RumblinBuff

    RumblinBuff That one blogging guy Club Member

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    I've had a few bouts with back spasms in my life. The first time, I couldn't swing a bat for a month. I couldn't imagine having to play basketball. I do appreciate everyone playing doctor, however.
     
  28. CVilleBuff

    CVilleBuff Club Member Club Member

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    No, they aren't saying that in Charlottesville because UVA actually runs an offense whether it's pretty or not. And they're 18-0, not 9-9.
     
  29. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    No way man. Obviously it depends on the severity but they can stick around and really screw you up

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
     
  30. RumblinBuff

    RumblinBuff That one blogging guy Club Member

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    Coach Boyle is the best thing to happen to this program since 1969. This conversation is dumb.
     
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