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To this point, Boyle is an awful coach on the road

Discussion in 'Colorado Basketball Message Board' started by rialto, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. rialto

    rialto Member

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    That was the worst loss of the Boyle era, IMO. He just lost to a team where CU had the MUCH better players, and Utah was missing its best player! This loss may well have ruined the 2012-2013 season. No great coach allows this team to lose to a HORRIBLE Utah team. Boyle is the tale of two coaches - great at home and on neutral sites and horrible on the road.

    His team lacks intensity and any semblance of a credible offense on the road. His players play soft and without much emotion and even with more talent than the opposition, his teams blow on the road. Unless this changes, we can't consistently move to a level above being mediocre in college basketball with Boyle as head coach.
     
  2. FLounder

    FLounder The Buffs will rise again! Club Member

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    Calm down bitch.
     
    14er likes this.
  3. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

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    Predictable as an atomic clock
     
  4. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    Mike Bohn has been waiting to see an improvement on the road before giving him a pay raise. Good work, Mike.
     
  5. rialto

    rialto Member

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    care to refute my point - which is that Boyle is a bad coach on the road? Didn't think so.
     
  6. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    I think you will agree that Bohn firing Dan Hawkins and Jon Embree for poor road records has put Boyle on notice. It is nice to see a commitment to road excellence from Mike.
     
  7. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

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    Clearly Tad Boyle is the one thing standing between CU and hoops greatness...
     
  8. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    I blame this loss on Mike Bohn.
     
  9. BuffHerd

    BuffHerd Club Member Club Member

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    Winning on the road is more difficult than winning at home... What exactly is your point? Comments like that are the result of passion combined with knee-jerk reaction, but lacks logic. Fire Altman while you are at it, oregon lost to cal on the road today too.
     
  10. CVilleBuff

    CVilleBuff Club Member Club Member

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    Said it before, I'll say it again:

    To get where we want to be, you have to be able to beat the cellar dwellers on the road nearly always and beat the mid-table teams on the road with relative consistency. To this point, Boyle had taken care of cellar dwellers, for the most part. Today we failed miserably in that department. However, we are NOWHERE close to beating mid-table teams on the road with any consistency, in fact, we don't ever beat them at all. We won't be going anywhere until the road play changes. You can be perfect at home, but if you can't win on the road, you're never going to be anything other than a bubble team at best.
     
  11. jgisland

    jgisland Club Member Club Member

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    I am on my phone right now but I will refute everyone of your points line by line later. I will actually have data to back-up my points rather than BS broad strokes of arm chair analysis.
     
  12. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Boyle's CU teams have not performed well on the road.

    Fantastic at home.

    Post-season has been great.

    Turned the corner this season with the early season neutral site games.

    But there's a major road monkey on this program's back. It's not just wins & losses. There is a huge deviation between home stats and road stats.
     
  13. jgisland

    jgisland Club Member Club Member

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    That could be said of all of college basketball not just Tad. Winning on the road is really hard in college basketball, ask Dana Altman.
     
  14. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

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    It's a fair point. In fact, it's true of a lot of CU's programs. But men's hoops are good enough at this point that it should be changing.

    It's just all a discussion that needs to happen separate from the ridiculous idea that somehow Tad is holding CU basketball back from being a national power...
     
  15. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    Agreed, college basketball and football are not that same animal, we have a ton of football fans who've been converted on this board which is great but you have to realize the two sports dont play-out the same way. A top-25 team on the road in conference is not a lock to win at an unranked opponent the way they are in football.
     
  16. L Buff

    L Buff Commissar of the Albuffs Collective Left Club Member

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    Please ... don't feed the troll.
     
  17. Mick Ronson

    Mick Ronson Well-Known Member

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    this is a bad loss...but some of these migration football people...welcome...but think it through...not Super Bowl Week at Whole Foods or King Sooper's.

    not the place to dump your bronco ironic Super Bowl anger.

    no one should care about the commercials, btw.
     
  18. CVilleBuff

    CVilleBuff Club Member Club Member

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    :lol:

    well said.
     
  19. jgisland

    jgisland Club Member Club Member

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    Per the research in the book "Scorecasting" College basketball is 2nd to only Soccer as the sport with the biggest home court advantage. Couple that with Colorado having the 21st biggest home court advantage in College Basketball having a 7.2 point advantage against an equal opponent at home and CU is obviously going to win more games at home than they are on the road. Tad Bolye has done exactly that, Win at home.

    We all would like to see more road wins but how does Tad stack up on the road against NCAA coaches? He is perfectly average. So while we can complain about bad losses to UW and Utah this year, the fact is that road losses happen and they happen nearly 7 out of 10 times and CU and Tad are no different.

    Facts:

    Per the Wall Street Journal road teams win 34% of the time. Tad Boyle? 32.35%

    201326
    201227
    201129
    201093
    2009312
    2008315
    2007116
    Totals2268
    32.35%Road Winning %


    Per KenPom road teams win conference games about 38% of the time. Tad Boyle? 39.74%.

    YearWinsLosses
    201314
    201216
    201126
    201063
    200927
    200839
    200717
    Totals1538
    39.474%Road Conference Winning %
     
  20. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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  21. CVilleBuff

    CVilleBuff Club Member Club Member

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    Send some rep jg's way for me

    And if you want to win on the road, you need seasoned upperclassmen vets and vocal leadership. It's a little disappointing considering all the heavy PT Dre, Dinwiddie and Ski have gotten makes us not quite as "young" as we appear on paper. The lack of vocal leadership is an issue, IMO. Concerning that we'd do this in such a vital game, but everything about winning on the road in college basketball is immensely difficult. Let's see how this team rebounds in Oregon. I hope to see us bring it and compete against the Ducks and not just go through the motions, and Oregon State simply needs to be a win for the sake of the program (whether you personally cling to postseason ambitions or not). Hopefully this game lights a fire.
     
  22. Uncle Ken

    Uncle Ken Orr no morr Club Member

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    When Ruggedvision breaks down in Trinidad, Allbuffs wins big.

    Good stuff as always. Thanks.
     
  23. mattrob

    mattrob Club Member Club Member

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    Thank you for being the voice of reason jg. As much as we've been spoiled so far in Boyle's time here, this team still has a lot further to go from a talent standpoint than a lot of people realize. Being an average road team who takes advantage of a significant home-court advantage is exactly what we should expect right now.

    YMSSR
     
  24. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    There are a number of things that go into it, some of which you can blame on Tad, some you can't.

    As others have pointed out home court in college basketball is a huge factor, bigger than in virtually every other sport. Add to this that we are a very young team, granted young with a certain amount of early experience but still very young. We lack the maturity and developed leadership to overcome what we will sometimes face on the road.

    One issue that I do somewhat blame Tad for is our inability to deal with physical play on the road. We all know that a big part of the home court is that the refs very often call a game for the home team, happens in Boulder as well so we shouldn't complain to much about it. At home we can deal with other teams big guys by running them in the altitude and wearing them out and at the same time slashing a lot on them and forcing foul trouble. On the road we are not able to tire them as much and refs don't make the same calls on them so they don't get into foul trouble and play tenatively. The result as we saw today is big stiffs (as Dough Moe would call them) spending all day pushing our smaller interior players around, leaning on them, and beating them up.

    Scott has the height to be an inside player but in his current form is completely outmatched when play underneath turns into a muscle game. SHT is stronger but still isn't able to compete with many of the guys we face on the road and his limitations make him a liability. I am hoping that as many have discussed Scott can add 15-25lbs fairly soon which would help a lot. I also think that people are going to like what they see from Gordon in this regard when we finally get to see him.

    That said it would still make a lot of sense for Tad to do as some others on this board have suggested (wish it were my idea but it isn't) and go find a mature transfer player who can give us one or two years and can deal with the paint on the road.

    The other issue that I do see Tad working on and that has a lot to do with the youth is that this team plays very well when they are doing what Tad is teaching them to do. They get into huge trouble when the get away from that and it seems like we have these extended stretches where we forget who we are and begin playing schoolyard ball, launching terrible shots, making stupid passes, and otherwise becoming ridiculously bad on offense. Hopefully as the young guys mature we will start developing some guys who can bring us back to who we are sooner when it happens. I though a key point in the game today in terms of starting to come back was when XJ stopped wandering around aimlessly with the rest of the team and started making hard back cuts on the baseline and doing what Tad coaches him to do. The result was a couple of solid baskets for the team and getting us out of our funk.
     
  25. rolandftw

    rolandftw Club Member Club Member

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    I don't like how we come out in the 2nd half on the road lot of times. Can's say whether it's fair to pin all of that on Boyle or not, but certainly he has some role in it all.

    Despite all of the love for Tad, he's still more inexperienced as a coach then many other coaches in this conference. He's still adjusting, and likely improving in his craft
     
  26. Ruckus

    Ruckus Peep my words. Club Member

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    jg is just awesome.
     
  27. rosstr

    rosstr Well-Known Member

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    We've been undersized for three years. You're not going to win road games if you don't have the hogs to grind a game out on the block. Because the shots won't fall and the pac12 refs will favor the home team and all that is left is a man versus man battle in the paint.
     
  28. Mick Ronson

    Mick Ronson Well-Known Member

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    for 3 years? how about 10 or more. you need fouls to give in this NCAA game these days. and you have to make FT's. julius ashby is the last big we had i can think of who gave us a presence on o and d in the paint...that you had to respect. harrison i guess...but ricardo was really bad about getting DH the ball inside at the end of close games.
     
  29. jgisland

    jgisland Club Member Club Member

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    This is only partially correct, CU is an average NCAA team in terms of effective height the last 3 years (and above average last year). However they have been relatively undersized compared to conference foes, but certainly not dramatically undersized. Effective Height is minutes-weighted average height using every player that plays at least 10 percent of his team's minutes.

    YearEffective HeightNCAA RankP12 Rank
    2013-0.01181st12th
    20121.193rd10th
    2011-0.2188th10th*
    * 10th in Big-12


    But if you look at the P12 this year there isn't a correlation between winning and height. ASU, UCLA and USC are the top 3 teams. The Pac-12 is the tallest conference by effective height in 2012/2013.

    TeamEffective HeightNCAA RankP12 Rank
    ASU4.54th1
    UCLA4.27th2
    USC4.18th3
    Arizona3.811th4
    UW3.515th5
    Stanford320th6
    CAL2.532nd7
    OSU2.436th8
    Oregon1.970th9
    WSU1.684th10
    Utah1.394th11
    CU-0.1181st12
     
  30. 14er

    14er “Imitation is suicide.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Just curious does weight factor in on this or do they even track that? Complete CUMBB novice here but when I watch other teams around the country they look much bigger physique wise. I know we are young and building but Kentucky is young also :wink: We need some beef.
     

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