Pac 12 players threaten opt-out of 2020 CFB season unless health and safety and other demands are met

[buffs233]

Not surprisingly, you resort to a character attack when you someone disagrees with you.

You can't simply make a counter argument, it's better to demean those that disagree with your wholly predictable views.

 

[manhattanbuff]

Not surprisingly, you resort to a character attack when you someone disagrees with you.

You can't simply make a counter argument, it's better to demean those that disagree with your wholly predictable views.

There’s enough money to change the system. It’s simply a question of not if but when it’ll happen.

 

[jizzrag85]

There’s enough money to change the system. It’s simply a question of not if but when it’ll happen.

What’s funny? Please show me the math where 50% of the proceeds go to athletes and they get paid to live for free too? You’re so much smarter than everyone here, so lay that all out for us since you’ve got the answers. I’d like to see how the state run colleges afford that.

Or we just pay them, give them scholarships and our cable bills and ticket prices reflect that gigantic difference in lost revenue.

 

[buffs233]

You good with the other requests?

To give the players 100% of what they want health wise, I would completely eliminate college sports until the virus was gone, or we had a vaccine.

For CU in particular, this is a great opportunity to either eliminate its athletic programs entirely or drop down a level to the Mountain West.

It's time for CU to put an end to years of losing and lack of commitment. CU clearly cannot or will not do what is necessary to compete at a high level. No reason to continue down a path which is failing miserably. The fundamental realignment of college sports is coming at a perfect time for CU.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

There’s enough money to change the system. It’s simply a question of not if but when it’ll happen.

There is not enough money to provide free housing, tuition, books, food, facilities, tutors, equipment, insurance, etc AND split revenue 50/50..... UNLESS they break away from the NCAA and stop forcing the players to attend school. A minor league approach, unaffiliated with the schools, is really the only way it works, and then it just becomes another XFL/CFL/AFL/etc

 

[Duff Man]

Good thread.

 

[buffs233]

There’s enough money to change the system. It’s simply a question of not if but when it’ll happen.

I agree with you - the system will change completely.

However, in the case of CU, I don't think there's an institutional commitment to be a real player under any system.

 

[hawg1]

100% agree, although none of the democrats here will agree with you. They want 50%? Strip everything they get for free and give them 50% and you’re on your own. No free housing, food, tickets or other perks. But just like the employee you want to become, you can be fired at any time.

This would be awesome actually, no more useless players on scholarships anymore! Colleges can’t afford to pay their players gobs of money and coddle them. The idea that scholarships are valuable for playing football is always contentious around here and always shot down.

Well, if scholarships and what they get are useless, they don’t need them right?

How much would you give them per year?

 

[manhattanbuff]

What’s funny? Please show me the math where 50% of the proceeds go to athletes and they get paid to live for free too? You’re so much smarter than everyone here, so lay that all out for us since you’ve got the answers. I’d like to see how the state run colleges afford that.

Or we just pay them, give them scholarships and our cable bills and ticket prices reflect that gigantic difference in lost revenue.

There will be changes and it won’t result in less revenue. The revenues from TV keep going up with every negotiation.

Basic outline: each P12 school receives $30 million per year just for football in TV revenue. Players get $15 million in salary and perks. Salary of $100K and perks (like housing or food subsidies) of $50K for 100 players. Players won’t be falsely listed as “student” athletes. They will be professionals. If they want to attend class, that’s on them to secure enrollment and pay for tuition. It’s no longer a part of the deal.

 

[Uncle Ken]

You care until they graduate.

What the players can't seem to wrap their heads around is that all the value is in the university brands, not the individual players. Reality is the players should be paying the schools for the level exposure they get in front of a national audience and NFL scouts and team executives.

I found this to be an interesting point. Maybe it goes a bit too far. And while the school's financially benefit disproportionately on the backs of players, the arrangement is not without benefit for the players as well.

I acknowledge there are other systems that would permit for that as well.

However, I can't get past the feeling that this all ends for college football like the movie Casino.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

There will be changes and it won’t result in less revenue. The revenues from TV keep going up with every negotiation.

Basic outline: each P12 school receives $30 million per year just for football in TV revenue. Players get $15 million in salary and perks. Salary of $100K and perks (like housing or food subsidies) of $50K for 100 players. Players won’t be falsely listed as “student” athletes. They will be professionals. If they want to attend class, that’s on them to secure enrollment and pay for tuition. It’s no longer a part of the deal.

Eliminating the education aspect of it is the only way the finances work

 

[SINKRATZ]

This isn't necessarily specific to the ADs, but the players need to be careful what they wish for as there are going to be some serious unintended consequences. I hope the players don't believe that 50% revenue sharing simply means they keep getting everything they have right now, plus an extra $100k/year or something. Guaranteed scholarships WILL go away, players will be on their own for food, housing, tuition (another can of worms with in-state/out of state tuition/public/private), books, medical, etc.

By that math, all non revenue generating sports are toast. Are these FB players ok letting all other sports die off? If not and they want equal treatment for all collegiate athletes then the math gets even uglier.

Total PAC 12 revenue last year was $530M and there were approximately 7,000 athletes in the conference. 50% revenue share with those athletes would provide them each about $37,850 before taxes. Ain’t happening.

 

[manhattanbuff]

I agree with you - the system will change completely.

However, in the case of CU, I don't think there's an institutional commitment to be a real player under any system.

I agree that there are disagreements administratively about Colorado being a big time player. We’re already there with admission requirements. If we’re purely talking about money, there are certainly pathways to making a revenue sharing model happen.

 

[hawg1]

To give the players 100% of what they want health wise, I would completely eliminate college sports until the virus was gone, or we had a vaccine.

For CU in particular, this is a great opportunity to either eliminate its athletic programs entirely or drop down a level to the Mountain West.

It's time for CU to put an end to years of losing and lack of commitment. CU clearly cannot or will not do what is necessary to compete at a high level. No reason to continue down a path which is failing miserably. The fundamental realignment of college sports is coming at a perfect time for CU.

Andy Staples did the math on all athletes getting 6 years of a group insurance PPO plan. 5-8M depending on how many opt out due to employer coverage. I like this idea.

 

[leftybuff]

However, I can't get past the feeling that this all ends for college football like the movie Casino.

Who would be the Sharon Stone character in that analogy?

 

[BuffsNYC]

Not surprisingly, you resort to a character attack when you someone disagrees with you.

You can't simply make a counter argument, it's better to demean those that disagree with your wholly predictable views.

 

[SINKRATZ]

There is not enough money to provide free housing, tuition, books, food, facilities, tutors, equipment, insurance, etc AND split revenue 50/50..... UNLESS they break away from the NCAA and stop forcing the players to attend school. A minor league approach, unaffiliated with the schools, is really the only way it works, and then it just becomes another XFL/CFL/AFL/etc

Didn’t The Rock just buy the XFL for $15M? If he somehow turned that into a minor league football organization that replaced collegiate football, that will have been a steal.

 

[BuffsNYC]

tradeoff of revenue sharing as a replacement for scholarships.

Why do you think the revenue sharing demand (request, really) doesn't take into account present benefits received by student athletes?

 

[leftybuff]

There is not enough money to provide free housing, tuition, books, food, facilities, tutors, equipment, insurance, etc AND split revenue 50/50..... UNLESS they break away from the NCAA and stop forcing the players to attend school. A minor league approach, unaffiliated with the schools, is really the only way it works, and then it just becomes another XFL/CFL/AFL/etc

If that were to happen, would it still be affiliated some way with the educational institution? If not, why would I care? MLB has a ton of money and they pay their minor leaguers jack squat. I don't see a minor league football operation paying the players a ton of money. Moreover, every time a player was ready to move on, they would be pulled up tot he NFL. If you think CFB has a lack of continuity in players now....

 

[skibum]

I'm going to keep on repeating this until it penetrates some apparently very thick skulls:

"Distribute 50% of each sport’s total conference revenue evenly among athletes in their respective sports."

Does NOT equal

"Pay players 50% of revenue."

Yes, paying players 50% of revenue could satisfy that demand, but it's not the only thing that could satisfy that demand.

There are probably 87 million other things that could satisfy that demand other than directly paying the players.

Everything from providing health insurance that extends beyond paying time, guaranteed full, four year scholarships across all sports even if an athlete gets injured, guaranteed full scholarships for other sports, full nutrition programs for other sports, equal academic support across all sports, even adding more scholarship sports , all of that, plus a whole lot more could satisfy that demand.

Give the kids a little credit here - they're NOT "just asking for cash." They are asking that 50% of conference revenues get spent directly, and evenly, across all athletes in all sports.

That's not an unreasonable ask - it really isn't.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

If that were to happen, would it still be affiliated some way with the educational institution? If not, why would I care? MLB has a ton of money and they pay their minor leaguers jack squat. I don't see a minor league football operation paying the players a ton of money. Moreover, every time a player was ready to move on, they would be pulled up tot he NFL. If you think CFB has a lack of continuity in players now....

Without the University branding, there is no money because fans aren't going to care, so the only way this all works is to keep the teams associated with the University, but don't make it a requirement for players to go to class/pay tuition.

 

[jizzrag85]

There will be changes and it won’t result in less revenue. The revenues from TV keep going up with every negotiation.

Basic outline: each P12 school receives $30 million per year just for football in TV revenue. Players get $15 million in salary and perks. Salary of $100K and perks (like housing or food subsidies) of $50K for 100 players. Players won’t be falsely listed as “student” athletes. They will be professionals. If they want to attend class, that’s on them to secure enrollment and pay for tuition. It’s no longer a part of the deal.

Awesome. So the one thing everyone says is useless is the one thing you’ll take away and that tuition, which is really fake money anyways, will make up the difference in incomes.

TV money will go up? Love it. As will tickets, merchandise and everything else, I bet the fans will be begging to pay more.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I'm going to keep on repeating this until it penetrates some apparently very thick skulls:

"Distribute 50% of each sport’s total conference revenue evenly among athletes in their respective sports."

Does NOT equal

"Pay players 50% of revenue."

Yes, paying players 50% of revenue could satisfy that demand, but it's not the only thing that could satisfy that demand.

There are probably 87 million other things that could satisfy that demand other than directly paying the players.

Everything from providing health insurance that extends beyond paying time, guaranteed full, four year scholarships across all sports even if an athlete gets injured, guaranteed full scholarships for other sports, full nutrition programs for other sports, equal academic support across all sports, even adding more scholarship sports , all of that, plus a whole lot more could satisfy that demand.

Give the kids a little credit here - they're NOT "just asking for cash." They are asking that 50% of conference revenues get spent directly, and evenly, across all athletes in all sports.

That's not an unreasonable ask - it really isn't.

What percentage of conference revenue currently goes toward, scholarships (tuition - OUT OF STATE, books, fees), housing, food, medical care while under scholarship, educational resources, equipment, facilities, the nutrition programs that are already there, etc?

 

[SINKRATZ]

Why do you think the revenue sharing demand (request, really) doesn't take into account present benefits received by student athletes?

They want both. I was just looking through their demands and while I applaud their sparking this discussion, some of these kids need an economics primer. And if I’m an athlete in a non-revenue sport, I’m pretty pissed about this because they are basically advocating football players getting paid and everyone else is f**ked.

Some notable excerpts:

Distribute 50% of each sport’s total conference revenue evenly among athletes in their respective sports.

Translation: football players (and some basketball players) get paid, and all non revenue sports are f**ked.

Six-year athletic scholarships to foster undergraduate and graduate degree completion.

So it appears they want 6 year scholarships on top of the 50% revenue share - bye bye all non-revenue sports.

Medical insurance selected by players for sports-related medical conditions, including COVID- 19 illness, to cover six years after college athletics eligibility ends.

They also want insurance that they select, on top of scholarships and revenue share.

End lavish facility expenditures and use some endowment funds to preserve all sports.*
*As an example, Stanford University should reinstate all sports discontinued by tapping into their $27.7 billion endowment.

Ok so this is where the Jack Kroll’s of the world get to whine about diverting money for cancer research to saving the wrestling program - based on how those endowments are funded, this is a non-starter.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

They want both. I was just looking through their demands and while I applaud their sparking this discussion, some of these kids need an economics primer. And if I’m an athlete in a non-revenue sport, I’m pretty pissed about this because they are basically advocating football players getting paid and everyone else is f**ked.

Some notable excerpts:

Translation: football players (and some basketball players) get paid, and all non revenue sports are f**ked.

So it appears they want 6 year scholarships on top of the 50% revenue share - bye bye all non-revenue sports.

They also want insurance that they select, on top of scholarships and revenue share.

Ok so this is where the Jack Kroll’s of the world get to whine about diverting money for cancer research to saving the wrestling program - based on how those endowments are funded, this is a non-starter.

Ya Stanford's AD has an endowment of estimated in the $500M range. Tapping into the 27.7B funds from the university itself... not going to happen.

 

[manhattanbuff]

Awesome. So the one thing everyone says is useless is the one thing you’ll take away and that tuition, which is really fake money anyways, will make up the difference in incomes.

TV money will go up? Love it. As will tickets, merchandise and everything else, I bet the fans will be begging to pay more.

TV money has always gone up. The appetite for non pro football has been substantial.

 

[jizzrag85]

I am wrong, the math does add up.

520M/2 = 265M
265M/ 7000 athletes = 37,857
265 - Pac 12’s 20% = 53 million
School share 265-53/12= 17.6 million.

Brilliant! The schools take a 15 million dollar hit but save on tuition (yay)! The conference takes a 50 million dollar hit and the players all get 37K.

That is until they raise their profits to 1.5 billion dollars to pay them that vaunted 100K + every park they currently get minus free education.

 

[skibum]

What percentage of conference revenue currently goes toward, scholarships (tuition - OUT OF STATE, books, fees), housing, food, medical care while under scholarship, educational resources, equipment, facilities, the nutrition programs that are already there, etc?

I honestly have no idea, but it would be surprising if it was 50% (in a P5 conference at least).

It also depends on how much spending you classify into that number - I mean some facility spending could be put in there, but probably not all facility spending.

It's noteworthy that they're asking for all athletes to be covered equally - so no more disparate facilities for football vs say cross-country.

Anyway - if you look at this as a negotiation you can see that there is *a lot* of room for compromise here, and there are lots of possible compromises that don't include "pay for play."

 

[hokiehead]

......, even adding more scholarship sports , all of that, plus a whole lot more could satisfy that demand.
...

I'm not clear that adding more scholarship sports satisfies the demand for sharing 50% of a sports' revenue across athletes in that sport

 

[jizzrag85]

TV money has always gone up. The appetite for non pro football has been substantial.

TV revenue is proportional with viewership. There is a point where people say, “this is too expensive.”

Or did you miss everyone cutting cable?