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'15 TNFR Conner Frankamp (Verbal to Wichita State)

I am very aware of WSU's success. When it comes to basketball their history and their recent success closely mirror that of CU. The big exception is they had an NIT win and one long tournament run. That being said, what excuse on earth is there for WSU having more success than CU? Do they have better facilities? No. Do they have a nicer campus? No. Are they located in a better city? No. Are they better academically? No. Are they located in a better region? No. Do they play more nationally televised games? No. Have they had more pro players recently? No. Yet, here we all sit with this perception that it is ok to lose a recruit to WSU because of one tourney run and one NIT run. Recruits have short memories. What they remember of CU isn't the pro players CU has produced...it is the losses...Arizona, Pittsburgh and now Wyoming. What we all remember of WSU is a tourney run. No offense to Shocker graduates but WSU may as well be NSSRCSPISBD.

Either you're highly disingenuous, or simply don't have a grasp of the climate of Wichita State basketball, or athletics. Wichita isn't just one NCAA run and an NIT win, to be elevated over Colorado. Do you realize that Wichita State has not lost a regular season basketball game in 642 days? Our last 2 losses are to eventual National Runner-up Kentucky, and then our next loss was to eventual National Champion, Louisville. Wichita has the best record in the ENTIRE NCAA Division I over the last 4 years. The Shockers have not lost at home to a non-conference opponent since a bracketbusters matchup with VCU in 2011, which was lost by a last second foul debacle. Go to our next home loss to a non-con you have to go back to 2008. We spent around 5 million on basketball last year, and we have all the amenities of a power 5 school. The only thing midmajor about Wichita State is the conference we're associated with. And at this point, it's like complaining about the parents that birthed you. You have no control over it. We had around 7 sports make the NCAA tournament last year, our athletic department is in a golden age right now.

Here are some video links to see what Wichita State basketball is all about.

http://vimeo.com/78301056

http://vimeo.com/56778502

http://vimeo.com/56050703

Do we have better facilities than CU? I'm not sure about your weight room or practice gym, but we definitely do have a better arena. I loved your guys arena when I came and saw a game there, and the atmosphere was fun and I couldn't even imagine a game against someone like KU there, but we seat 10,506 and it's packed every game. You do have one up on us in the fact that Boulder and Denver does blow Wichita out of the water, but that's an obvious observation by anyone. However, what would be considered a con to some, is a pro to others. Nothing happening in Wichita means Shocker hoops is the #1 show in town, and it ain't even close. This city is black and yellow and it's apparent. Not only is it great for fans, but it's great for players. This is it, this is the big time in Wichita. Want to be known where ever you go in a city? Be a basketball player in Wichita. Cleanthony Early chose Wichita in part because it is the only show in town. No football, it's just basketball. Not a lot to do in Wichita to get you in trouble or busy with the nightlife, these guys can focus on hoops.

We do have a nice campus, is it as nice and scenic as Boulder? No, but it's not like Wichita's buildings are made of cinderblocks. We don't have mountains surrounding our campus, but I think it's beautiful, none the less. It sits atop the hill in Wichita and overlooks the city to the west. We "stand proudly on the hill" and I'm sure you mountain folk would laugh at our hill. But on top of a basketball program with recent success, we've recently had success in enrollment expansion and expanding our campus. We recently remodeled our student center which looks like this, and built a new dorm overlooking our football field now used for Track, and Koch Arena. The dorm looks like this. Academically Colorado is ranked better, but Wichita has many colleges with great reputations, and great alumni that have done wonderful things after graduating. Wichita has a great school of music that has produced Grammy winners, Broadway actors and actresses, and we have a great Marcussen Organ in Wiedeman Hall. We have a good business school that has produced some great ventures, including starting Pizza Hut. You can google it, I won't get into listing off people and successes. We have NIAR which is the National Institute of Aviation Research, and recently expanded out to the Coliseum which is an old arena/convention center outside of town to house bigger projects. Wichita State is renowned for our aeronautical engineering. We are most known for our Business and Engineering school's, I'd have to say. We are a research university, and have plans to start an innovation center which pairs private business with our university working together. Our new president appears to be a visionary, and has WSU on an upward trajectory in nearly every category academically.

Nationally televised games? I'd actually argue that we do have more nationally televised games than Colorado, but I don't have figures to back that up. But currently Wichita will be on ESPN I think 22 times this year so far, and we have scheduled dates that could be added later.

More pro players? NBA, no, but we currently have three guys on NBA rosters. Most players in our program have gone on and played professionally in Europe and Asia.

In conclusion, I mean no ill words towards Colorado, and wouldn't have made direct comparisons if it weren't for having Wichita called out. I don't mean to start a WSU vs Colorado post, cheers gents. I hope we meet up in the Diamond Head finals. I'm a big proponent of Wichita playing Colorado, and making it a permanent match up that could develop into a nice rivalry.
 
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I am very aware of WSU's success. When it comes to basketball their history and their recent success closely mirror that of CU. The big exception is they had an NIT win and one long tournament run. That being said, what excuse on earth is there for WSU having more success than CU? Do they have better facilities? No. Do they have a nicer campus? No. Are they located in a better city? No. Are they better academically? No. Are they located in a better region? No. Do they play more nationally televised games? No. Have they had more pro players recently? No. Yet, here we all sit with this perception that it is ok to lose a recruit to WSU because of one tourney run and one NIT run. Recruits have short memories. What they remember of CU isn't the pro players CU has produced...it is the losses...Arizona, Pittsburgh and now Wyoming. What we all remember of WSU is a tourney run. No offense to Shocker graduates but WSU may as well be NSSRCSPISBD.
Their facilities may actually be nicer - at least their stadium is, IMO.
http://www.goshockers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=7500&ATCLID=613233
QDMLZIGXVDANOWG.20060924202205.jpg


Edit: Shocker beat me to it!
 
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Their facilities may actually be nicer - at least their stadium is, IMO.
http://www.goshockers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=7500&ATCLID=613233
QDMLZIGXVDANOWG.20060924202205.jpg


Edit: Shocker beat me to it!


Those pictures are so old! Ugh, hate that they don't update that stuff. We have a new scoreboard, and our renovation to Koch Arena was around 12 years ago, and at that time we updated the concourse, facilities and seating. We're getting ready to start a new capital campaign to renovate again, and one of the rumors is to add luxury sky boxes.

Here is a picture of our scoreboard.

Bh_0cO4CAAEVepC.jpg


Nick-Wiggins-Wichita-State-Dunk.jpg
 
Charles Koch Arena :lol:

Anyway, selling WSU short is foolish. Love their fans, and love watching their scores every week.
 
Much love for the Shockers. Hoping that CU & WSU listen to Nik and get a home & home going.
 
The ShockerHoops posts I remember over the years have always been classy and led me to root for them. Would like to see us playing them on a regular basis.
 
I had to wait to reply to the post until after last night. Why? Well, DUH. Shocker fan definitely jinxed their team, even if his reply was well considered and only slightly homer tainted. Before I reply, I should point out that I am not trying to rip WSU or their fans. They absolutely should be proud of what their team has accomplished and they should enjoy every second of the run they are on. It is a GREAT run considering all they have to overcome and they seem to be trying to build on the perception of this run. My intent here is to point out why we, as Colorado Buffs, should not be satisfied with where our program is and even should be slightly embarrassed that WSU could do it and the Buffs haven't yet and to get us thinking about why.

Let me address his response in order.
1. The Shocker's story is more than just an NIT win and one deep tourney run...after all they hadn't lost a game except to the eventual national champions and it isn't their fault they play in a mid major conference. As a CU fan we definitely know that changing conferences is something the school controls. So it IS WSU's fault for playing in a mid major. Oh and saying that you lost to a better team than someone else lost to. Really? Bottom line, WSU lost. They have had 1, count them 1 deep tourney run. They have used that run to great advantage in recruiting, but all this does is show that CU needs some signature wins.
2. The Shocker's aren't mid major. Uhm, yes, the Shocker's ARE mid major. Saying it isn't is kind of like Montana State saying they play in a power conference, or Central Florida turning their couple of years of good football into saying they are a perennial power. WSU plays against mid major competition in a mid major conference and yes that includes Missouri State, otherwise known as South West Missouri State. How many PAC 12 teams have the ability to not lose a game in that conference? 8?
3. The facilities are equal or better than CU's. OK, a few years ago you would have been right, but no longer. Yes, WSU's main arena is better than the keg (See seating and score boards) but the remainder of the facilities aren't close. I could post a bunch of photos, but everyone knows how to use google.
4. Academics. This doesn't even deserve a reply. It would be like us Buff's trying to say we were an academic equal to Stanford. Even thinking it shows a serious lack of understanding. Ditto research institution...ditto academic awards...ditto successful alums...ditto ditto ditto...
5. Yes WSU is in a town that really supports the Shockers because there isn't anything else to do. I seriously doubt this is a recruiting sales pitch..."Come here, you'll have nothing to do, and neither will anyone else, which means they will all love coming to your basketball games!!!"
6. Nationally televised games - I didn't realize that only ESPN counts for nationally televised games. Here I thought there were other networks and that maybe, just maybe the power conferences owned some of these networks. Guess I need to catch up with the times and realize that ESPN is the beginning, middle and end of anything sports.

WSU is on a nice run, but it it's basketball history isn't really different than CU's. One deep tourney run and playing a bunch of weak competition has left an impression on recruits that WSU is this great team. Yes, they are on an historic mid major run. It is impressive and they should be happy...BUT, perception is everything. If CU's current group of players could just get a couple of signature wins, instead of the signature losses they have had, then the perception of CU would be the same, and CU would have all of the advantages.
Bottom line, CU lost a transfer recruit that it wanted to a mid major and that is something we as Buffs should never ever allow ourselves to feel ok about.

Uhm, go NSSRCSPISBD!!!!
 
CK Slapped!

Only part I will add is I did realize earlier this morning that the WSU coach also earns more than Boyle. They are certainly doing their best to stay relevant.
 
If somebody wants to give me the Mtn summary for CK's diatribe, I'll check it out. Otherwise, I don't give a **** and remember to hit return once in a while.
 
If somebody wants to give me the Mtn summary for CK's diatribe, I'll check it out. Otherwise, I don't give a **** and remember to hit return once in a while.
Yeah, tldr. Also don't care. Good kid chose a good school close to where he was. Ain't gonna get too upset about it. Don't even know how hard we were going at him. *shrug*
 
Shocker, I haven't been to your arena. I see it's relatively new, 2003? Looks fantastic. We could use a major facelift to the Keg, although our capacity is actually larger than yours. We seat 11,064.

Regarding your conference situation, has there ever been noise about the A10? A10 is obviously huge with 14, but adding you guys to that league would make it ridiculously strong. Davidson is a very respectable program and a better geographic fit, but with the A10 having an "outpost" in Saint Louis, it's not like WSU would have been a huge stretch. I think that move for Davidson could have been used more wisely if Wichita would have jumped.
 
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I had to wait to reply to the post until after last night. Why? Well, DUH. Shocker fan definitely jinxed their team, even if his reply was well considered and only slightly homer tainted. Before I reply, I should point out that I am not trying to rip WSU or their fans. They absolutely should be proud of what their team has accomplished and they should enjoy every second of the run they are on. It is a GREAT run considering all they have to overcome and they seem to be trying to build on the perception of this run. My intent here is to point out why we, as Colorado Buffs, should not be satisfied with where our program is and even should be slightly embarrassed that WSU could do it and the Buffs haven't yet and to get us thinking about why.

Let me address his response in order.
1. The Shocker's story is more than just an NIT win and one deep tourney run...after all they hadn't lost a game except to the eventual national champions and it isn't their fault they play in a mid major conference. As a CU fan we definitely know that changing conferences is something the school controls. So it IS WSU's fault for playing in a mid major. Oh and saying that you lost to a better team than someone else lost to. Really? Bottom line, WSU lost. They have had 1, count them 1 deep tourney run. They have used that run to great advantage in recruiting, but all this does is show that CU needs some signature wins.
2. The Shocker's aren't mid major. Uhm, yes, the Shocker's ARE mid major. Saying it isn't is kind of like Montana State saying they play in a power conference, or Central Florida turning their couple of years of good football into saying they are a perennial power. WSU plays against mid major competition in a mid major conference and yes that includes Missouri State, otherwise known as South West Missouri State. How many PAC 12 teams have the ability to not lose a game in that conference? 8?
3. The facilities are equal or better than CU's. OK, a few years ago you would have been right, but no longer. Yes, WSU's main arena is better than the keg (See seating and score boards) but the remainder of the facilities aren't close. I could post a bunch of photos, but everyone knows how to use google.
4. Academics. This doesn't even deserve a reply. It would be like us Buff's trying to say we were an academic equal to Stanford. Even thinking it shows a serious lack of understanding. Ditto research institution...ditto academic awards...ditto successful alums...ditto ditto ditto...
5. Yes WSU is in a town that really supports the Shockers because there isn't anything else to do. I seriously doubt this is a recruiting sales pitch..."Come here, you'll have nothing to do, and neither will anyone else, which means they will all love coming to your basketball games!!!"
6. Nationally televised games - I didn't realize that only ESPN counts for nationally televised games. Here I thought there were other networks and that maybe, just maybe the power conferences owned some of these networks. Guess I need to catch up with the times and realize that ESPN is the beginning, middle and end of anything sports.

WSU is on a nice run, but it it's basketball history isn't really different than CU's. One deep tourney run and playing a bunch of weak competition has left an impression on recruits that WSU is this great team. Yes, they are on an historic mid major run. It is impressive and they should be happy...BUT, perception is everything. If CU's current group of players could just get a couple of signature wins, instead of the signature losses they have had, then the perception of CU would be the same, and CU would have all of the advantages.
Bottom line, CU lost a transfer recruit that it wanted to a mid major and that is something we as Buffs should never ever allow ourselves to feel ok about.

Uhm, go NSSRCSPISBD!!!!

1. Why do you keep referring to the deep run as what propelled our program? Your logic is extremely flawed on about every bullet point, and you delve into hyperbole and make statements that are irrelevant and off topic of what you're trying to prove. If the deep run propelled our recruiting efforts then why was our All-American on the team that made that run? Why is our current preseason All-American, on the team that made that run? Why is it that in Marshall's first class, he recruited one of our 3 current NBA players... well before our "one run that propelled our program." The deep run is not the catalyst of the program, it simply was the result of the program. Look at Marshall's record while at WSU, and any sane person would realize the momentum was there from the day he got ahold of WSU's program. Constant improvement from day 1.

07-08: 11-20
08-09: 17-17
09-10: 25-10
10-11: 29-8
11-12: 27-6
12-13: 30-9
13-14: 35-1

Please, tell me how that run in 12-13 propelled the program.

2. Hyperbole. 8 Pac 12 teams could not run the entire conference schedule undefeated. If you define a program by the conference it plays in, then yes Wichita is Mid Major. If that's your definition, you're a moron.

3. Come on out and check them out if wsu and cu ever schedule a H-H. It'll change your tone.

4. Your answer is ironic because it would seem that you need to learn to read, how did you get a degree from CU? Where did I say WSU was better academically than CU? I said yes CU is better, then went on to talk about what I am proud of academically at my university. http://i.imgur.com/GXOU1D0.png

5. You're a clown.

6. ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU do have more national viewers than the P12 network. Refer to image in bullet point 4.
 
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Shocker, I haven't been to your arena. I see it's relatively new, 2003? Looks fantastic. We could use a major facelift to the Keg, although our capacity is actually larger than yours. We seat 11,064.

Regarding your conference situation, has there ever been noise about the A10? A10 is obviously huge with 14, but adding you guys to that league would make it ridiculously strong. Davidson is a very respectable program and a better geographic fit, but with the A10 having an "outpost" in Saint Louis, it's not like WSU would have been a huge stretch. I think that move for Davidson could have been used more wisely if Wichita would have jumped.

I'm sure fans would love joining the A10, but I haven't heard much about joining it. The one that I always hear about is MWC because of the whole needing an olympic sport member that doesn't play football.
 
I'm sure fans would love joining the A10, but I haven't heard much about joining it. The one that I always hear about is MWC because of the whole needing an olympic sport member that doesn't play football.

You have to deal with CSU fans there. I wouldn't recommend it.
 
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