Very true in regard to the facilities. I don’t really know what the solution is to make CU competitive for the long term.
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2023 5 star recruit guaranteed $8mm in NIL
- Thread starter Liver
- Start date
CU and other programs like them have been the "cucks" for the USCs of the world for 20-30 years. Welcome to College Football. Again, you are personally disenchanted with what CFB has become and since CU can't compete with the nation's elite, you'd rather dump the program, even though it makes no economic sense to do so.
I am a football fan, so yeah, I'd rather CU have a football program than not. I assume most people here agree with that.
Good for you, super fan. Enjoy the show.
An athletic friendly president and chancellor will go a long way. I truly hope that is at least somewhat of a priority with those two positions being hired in the next 2 years. Those two positions hasn't prevented CU from being a 6 win team, but they have prevented CU from moving on quickly enough from disaster after disaster with coaches (and this includes within the AD as well).
Yeah, you're just the cool casual fan who doesn't really care that much. Take your L from this discussion on the way out, chief
But can we afford to just keep stacking up buyouts as attendance diminishes? That doesn’t seem like a recipe for success either. I know I seem doom and gloom, but a viable path forward for CU football (and similar schools) will take quite some doing, IMO.
Sure thing, hoss. It sounds like you’ll be around for enough of them in the years ahead to get your fill anyway.
Oh, I bet you would have called me crazy a couple of years ago if I told you the Big12 would be all but dead by 2022. What does CU or the Pac 12 have going for it that would save it from the same fate? But head down and full speed ahead!
I think the doom and gloom has more to do with NIL/transfer portal/large scale changes around college football more so than CU in general (although CU has no one to blame for their football issues other than themselves). A lot of fans don't like the changes and therefore just see the worst possible outcomes. College football is evolving and this could been a good transition if the NCAA had any type of leadership.
Overall, there are going to be some large scale changes, but I think CU and the Pac 12 will be fine if they make the right moves in the near future. CU can be successful in that next tier of football programs with a winning program.
Edit: Others have said it, but CU could not have picked a worse time to suck at football the last 20 years.
And we're splitting 12 ways compared to others at 14+ (other than the Big 12). ACC isn't getting a new deal for a long while & are basically relegated to ESPN Plus for a network. Big 12 is losing its marquee programs & negotiating leverage while splitting their pie into more slices.Not competitive....? Were not first, but were not last either.
Media
1. Big Ten: $768.9 million
2. SEC: $728.9 million
3. Pac-12: $533.8 million
4. ACC: $496.7 million
5. Big 12: $409.2 million
Here's how much each Power 5 conference made last year
The 990s are in, which means we get a peek at the finances of each conference in major college athletics. The documents cover Fiscal Year 2020 which,footballscoop.com
You are probably right that 15-20 programs are going to break off. And they will probably start some kind of super league too.
I really don't believe that media revenue is the issue for us going forward. It's really more an issue of fan/booster support. We're not willing to pay or donate as much & don't prioritize a college sporting event anywhere near as highly in our entertainment mix vs folks in the South or Midwest.
Expenses is what really sticks out for the P12 over the other conferences. Moving the conference headquarters alone would generate each School a few million dollars more a year.
Depends on how you are looking at it. Compared to the SEC or B1G it very much is an issue, compared to the ACC and B12 it is not. But that gap with the SEC and presumably the B1G will grow.
The Pac 12 has a brand in USC, and to lesser extents, Oregon, UCLA and Washington that the Big 12 no longer has, bud. A lot is riding on them becoming a national power again under Riley, but they are one of only a few brands in the country who can elevate an entire conference.
I can definitely envision a scenario where USC, UCLA, Oregon and maybe UW, opt to join a new national conference. It feels to me like some kind of elite college football conference is the direction we are headed. What happens then? Well, in a best case scenario, CU joins up with the dregs of the PAC 12 and maybe adds a few dregs from the B12 and forms our own conference that resembles something like what we all remember about college football. Would that really be so bad?
Remember all the way back to when the Big12 had a brand in Texas and Oklahoma, bud? How’s that go?
UT's network kills everything and both of them ultimately left the conference. There's been no indication that USC or Oregon are looking to leave the Pac 12, so yeah, completely different situations, guy.
Depends on your perspective in the grand scheme of things and ambition, I guess.
You need to accept that the big wheel will spin without CU. But that doesn't necessarily have to prevent you from still enjoying CU games, being at Folsom, watching college football games (in person) with your friends and family etc. You just need to accept that the game on the field won't matter in the grand scheme of things.
I've mentioned before that I think the only way college football survives is with a major restructuring.
The top 30-40 schools who want to be in the big money game (it will start with more but the realities will force some to filter out) will be in the top tier, collect the biggest part of the national TV revenues, and most will still struggle to break even because of the arms race with paying coaches, players, facilities, etc. This group probably goes with it's own governing body leaving the NCAA for football. CU won't be in it.
The next tier will be most of the schools who were formerly P5 programs plus a few top G5 programs. This level will build in some cost controls limiting NIL, and potentially limiting coaching budgets and maybe even reducing scholarship numbers. They will still get some national TV money along with local or regional money since there are a lot of networks out there with programing slots to fill and most of these schools have enough loyal or at least interested fans (plus the gamblers) to generate audiences.
Below that you get a level with most of the former G5 plus the top of the current FCS. More cost controls, get by mostly on ticket revenue and donations.
Lower FCS joins current D2.
Having the upper division handing out money allows the others to limit their cost and benefits since they aren't a monopoly.
Schools and fans will initially try to make the argument that they have "always competed at the top level as is fitting for an institution like we are." but realistically the fans of most of those schools know that they haven't been "competing" at the top level of years and short a sugar daddy billionaire donor or two never will again.
Some schools may see some decline in fan interest but in general the idea that their team is actually competitive and games are fun again will be more appealing that watching them get their teeth kicked in by higher budget programs every week.
Basketball could see a similar shakeout or we could just see it made irrelevant by most of the top talents going directly to NBA development squads or to international leagues at more money than the NIL would be anyways.
*and an act of congress to exempt college football from a variety of laws that the supreme court has ruled do in fact apply to college football.
Imagine if the ACC, Pac-12 & Big 12 had its AAU members split off & merge into a national conference. Works out to 16 schools.
Arizona
Cal
Colorado
Duke
Georgia Tech
Iowa State
Kansas
North Carolina
Oregon
Pittsburgh
Stanford
UCLA
USC
Utah
Virginia
Washington
I think the fact that this list does not include Clemson illustrates the problem with it fairly well.
That’s a great hoops conference.
Clemson's pushing for AAU.
So are Houston & Texas Tech.
Academics still drives things. AAU is a mandatory requirement for B1G. It's not for P12, but it's still a huge deal. Getting away from the national conference mental masturbation, I think we're more likely to see TTU than TCU in a Pac-14 for this reason.
Fogo
Well-Known Member
The Florida State DB got me thinking about the NIL and team chemistry. Say you have 5 top players,even unproven incoming freshman making big NIL bucks. After that you have 5 more making lesser but still top tier money. Then you have 20 or so who think they should be making the top bucks but aren't. Then followed by 50 who are getting free donuts or discount car washes as part of their deal if they are making anything at all, and they are all really pissed off because they see the money, but they don't get to taste it. Does that effect the team and how it performs?
I suppose you can point to the NFL as a working model, but I'd say the 18-19 year olds who are looking for a payoff now are somewhat less mature and more volatile on their reactions. Time will tell, but I think big donors supporting the NIL will get tired of supporting a team that doesn't have enough chemistry to win, and even more so, players who don't perform. I'm guessing we'll see this before the NCAA has the nads to regulate it all.
I suppose you can point to the NFL as a working model, but I'd say the 18-19 year olds who are looking for a payoff now are somewhat less mature and more volatile on their reactions. Time will tell, but I think big donors supporting the NIL will get tired of supporting a team that doesn't have enough chemistry to win, and even more so, players who don't perform. I'm guessing we'll see this before the NCAA has the nads to regulate it all.
I doubt it affects team chemistry much more significantly than having scholarship and walk-on players on the same team.
Those guys practice against each other every day and have a good idea how far apart they are.
How long until these boosters realize they are wasting their money giving that kind of scratch to a handful of players? Is it going to be 2, 3 more years of Georgia, Alabama, championships while they are spending 50 mil a year extra to field an also ran.
Heres the issue I see with some kind of super conference made up of the elites. These are all schools with big money, big boosters, and big expectations. Even a conference composed entirely of elite teams is going to stratify, leaving half winners and half losers. What is going to happen to Texas, Michigan, Oklahoma etc when they become perineal 2, 3 or 4 win teams in an elite conference? I don't think anybody is going to like that, and I don't think there will be anything (like in the NFL) that is going to create parity in the conference. For a lot of these schools, it is much more lucrative being a big fish in a small pond.
Texas made a grave mistake, IMO
Absolutely. There will be grief in Austin.
In going to the SEC, I agree. That's why I don't think a super conference of 20 or 30 elites will ever happen. Any increased revenue would be eaten up by the costs associated with trying to compete in such a conference. Why would many of those schools want to go from being an "elite" to being a doormat in an elite conference.