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Baylor Rape HQ - (major lawsuit settled)

buffedup said:
It’s stories like these that always remind me of Ghandi’s quote:
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”​
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In keeping with the season, there's also this one coming from the Spirit of Christmas Present in a Christmas Carol:

"There are some upon this earth of yours," returned the Spirit, "who lay claim to know us, and who do their deeds of passion, pride, ill-will, hatred, envy, bigotry, and selfishness in our name, who are as strange to us and all our kith and kin, as if they had never lived. Remember that, and charge their doings on themselves, not us."
 
Baylor’s Law school doesn’t escape critism. I never vote for a Baylor grad running for public office.

I ran into Congressman elect Collin Allred who played football at BU (and law school at Cal) durinf a charity event and asked him how his advocacy for women’s rights and sexual abuse reconciled with what transpired at Baylor. His answer, “Baylor’s issues are behind them.”
 
**** bailer ... yet again,

Jacob Walter Anderson, the former Baylor University fraternity president who received a $400 fine and zero jail time on Monday on charges related to rape, has been banned from his current campus at the University of Texas at Dallas but will still receive his college degree.

Anderson was expelled from Baylor University after he was investigated for allegedly drugging and repeatedly sexually assaulting a 19-year-old female student during a fraternity party in 2016. The former fraternity president transferred to UT Dallas where he continued his education until the sentencing this week.
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The victim’s attorney, Vic Feazell, told local outlet KWTX, “I never, ever have seen such a sweetheart deal for a defendant like this,” adding, “It pays to be rich and white in McLennan County when you’re charged with a crime.”

Judge Strother, who is listed as a prominent alumni[sic] of Baylor University, has a history of approving lenient sentences for accused rapists. Multiple petitions have been created calling for Strother’s resignation. As of Friday morning, a Care2 petition calling for the judge’s removal had received over 30,000 signatures.
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Congressman Colin Allred can help weigh in on this, right?

https://www.colinallred.com/womensrights

Since he’s my congressman elect, time for a strongly worded letter.

“Dear Congressman-elect,

The verdict in the Jacob Walter Anderson trial is making national headlines: https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5c13c163e4b0860b8b5d8df1

As a representative who champions women’s issues, and as an alumnus of Baylor University, you are in a unique position to address how sexual assault is prosecuted in Texas.

What success looks like to me is: 1) Sentences for sexual assault should not be impacted by the wealth or race of the defendants; and, 2) I would like to see Baylor University be subjected to Freedom of Information Act flings on issues relating to sexual assault as a condition of Title IX and eligibility to receive federal grants and federal student aid.

We can not advance an environment for victims to come foreword when there is just a slap on the wrist for the guilty and no transparency within the system.

Thanks and best wishes,
 
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Denver_sc said:
The next time someone asks, "Well why didn't she just report it if it was rape?" point them right at that story. She went right to the police after it happened and two years later, after she had to relive the incident countless times, he walks.
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And witness his emotional celebration.

I know it’s he said she said. I know he’s not technically guilty. I tend to believe her.
 
buffedup said:
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/26383514/judge-orders-firm-release-docs-baylor-cases
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Baylor higher ups:

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NCAA:

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Uncle Ken said:
And witness his emotional celebration.

I know it’s he said she said. I know he’s not technically guilty. I tend to believe her.
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It's usually a tough question and I normally believe the innocent until proven guilty but in this case when you consider the culture of the program it is hard not to believe her.
 
MtnBuff said:
It's usually a tough question and I normally believe the innocent until proven guilty but in this case when you consider the culture of the program it is hard not to believe her.
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You can defer to the victim’s story every time, and probably be right over 90%.
 
Uncle Ken said:
You can defer to the victim’s story every time, and probably be right over 90%.
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I agree with you that in the great majority of cases the woman is telling the truth, or at least closer to it than the accused.

Our system however has always believed in the concept of a presumption of innocence and the consequences of a presumption of guilt are severe enough that while I would tend to side with the victim I will give the benefit of a doubt in the absence of some other corroborating evidence or information.

Baylor, and those who a part of the culture of Baylor have lost that benefit of a doubt in my mind due to the overwhelming evidence of not only individual incidents but of a culture that not only ignored these acts but encouraged them.

Add to that your comment about his celebration. I have not seen the video of his reaction in the courtroom but I saw the video of his responses leaving the courtroom. To me it looked orchestrated by his legal team and agents and that he was surprised and glad to get away with it.

My first thought was how many Baylor fans or other connections on the jury, was the judge a Baylor man? How fair a trial did the victim get considering the lengths that Baylor has gone to try to manipulate the coverage and response to other events in the program.

It is also clear that reporting and following through on reports is not easy for the victims in any circumstances. In a climate like that which surrounds Baylor it is even much more difficult. Outside of a legal sense I would agree with you that more often than not the woman usually has a valid complaint. In this situation it is hard for me to believe she isn't truthful in her statements.
 
MtnBuff said:
I agree with you that in the great majority of cases the woman is telling the truth, or at least closer to it than the accused.

Our system however has always believed in the concept of a presumption of innocence and the consequences of a presumption of guilt are severe enough that while I would tend to side with the victim I will give the benefit of a doubt in the absence of some other corroborating evidence or information.

Baylor, and those who a part of the culture of Baylor have lost that benefit of a doubt in my mind due to the overwhelming evidence of not only individual incidents but of a culture that not only ignored these acts but encouraged them.

Add to that your comment about his celebration. I have not seen the video of his reaction in the courtroom but I saw the video of his responses leaving the courtroom. To me it looked orchestrated by his legal team and agents and that he was surprised and glad to get away with it.

My first thought was how many Baylor fans or other connections on the jury, was the judge a Baylor man? How fair a trial did the victim get considering the lengths that Baylor has gone to try to manipulate the coverage and response to other events in the program.

It is also clear that reporting and following through on reports is not easy for the victims in any circumstances. In a climate like that which surrounds Baylor it is even much more difficult. Outside of a legal sense I would agree with you that more often than not the woman usually has a valid complaint. In this situation it is hard for me to believe she isn't truthful in her statements.
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You can defer to the victim’s story every time, and probably be right over 90%.
 
Uncle Ken said:
You can defer to the victim’s story every time, and probably be right over 90%.
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As stated you are probably right or close to it.

From a legal stance though I am not willing to go there. I'm not going to put a guy in jail or give him a record based on a he said/she said. In the case of Baylor that goes out the window. In my mind he will be one of the Baylor rapist. I hope that he doesn't end up somehow on the Broncos because I cannot be a fan of him or a team that employs him.

More than that I hope that he doesn't go off and do this to another woman thinking that being a football star and having the money to lawyer up will protect him.
 
MtnBuff said:
As stated you are probably right or close to it.

From a legal stance though I am not willing to go there. I'm not going to put a guy in jail or give him a record based on a he said/she said. In the case of Baylor that goes out the window. In my mind he will be one of the Baylor rapist. I hope that he doesn't end up somehow on the Broncos because I cannot be a fan of him or a team that employs him.

More than that I hope that he doesn't go off and do this to another woman thinking that being a football star and having the money to lawyer up will protect him.
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You can defer to the victim’s story every time, and probably be right over 90%.
 
Uncle Ken said:
You can defer to the victim’s story every time, and probably be right over 90%.
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Is that a high enough standard that you are willing to then 100% of the time lay the burden of guilt on the accused? How about if you were one of those 10% falsely accused? How do you prove a negative?

Understand that from a practical standpoint as a casual observer I tend to believe the victim unless I have a good reason not to but I am also not in a position to impose actual consequences on those accused.

We have a number of individuals on this board who currently or in the past have acted as defense attorneys. The principle that makes a good defense attorney valuable to society (even when it looks like the client is a pure slime bucket to the rest of us) is the idea that it is better for many guilty to go free than for one innocent to lose his/her freedom.
 
MtnBuff said:
Is that a high enough standard that you are willing to then 100% of the time lay the burden of guilt on the accused? How about if you were one of those 10% falsely accused? How do you prove a negative?

Understand that from a practical standpoint as a casual observer I tend to believe the victim unless I have a good reason not to but I am also not in a position to impose actual consequences on those accused.

We have a number of individuals on this board who currently or in the past have acted as defense attorneys. The principle that makes a good defense attorney valuable to society (even when it looks like the client is a pure slime bucket to the rest of us) is the idea that it is better for many guilty to go free than for one innocent to lose his/her freedom.
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Oh, I'm sorry. I was approaching this line of reasoning assuming that you were a defense attorney. My bad.
 
Uncle Ken said:
Oh, I'm sorry. I was approaching this line of reasoning assuming that you were a defense attorney. My bad.
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No, if I were a defense attorney I would be getting a hold of Oakman's agents and those of other Baylor players looking to make bunches of money defending NFL prospects.

I've been clear throughout this thread that I think Oakman is guilty and that the accuser is being truthful in her accusations. At this point I would look at almost any accusation against someone out of the Baylor athletic department as truthful unless proven otherwise. After enough history they lose the benefit of a doubt.
 
MtnBuff said:
No, if I were a defense attorney I would be getting a hold of Oakman's agents and those of other Baylor players looking to make bunches of money defending NFL prospects.

I've been clear throughout this thread that I think Oakman is guilty and that the accuser is being truthful in her accusations. At this point I would look at almost any accusation against someone out of the Baylor athletic department as truthful unless proven otherwise. After enough history they lose the benefit of a doubt.
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And not just baylor! You could pretty much just believe the victim most of the time and be right.
 
Uncle Ken said:
And not just baylor! You could pretty much just believe the victim most of the time and be right.
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We aren't arguing that. I agree and have agreed.
The question is though how you handle the fact that it is most of the time or even 90% of the time instead of 100% of the time.

I do believe that the victims should always be listened to. Their reports should be taken seriously and given credence. They should have the right to immediate protection from those they accuse and they should be treated with dignity and respect with the understanding that it isn't easy for a victim to report.

There are still enough times when the report is false, when their are two legitimate sides to the story, that we can't automatically assume that the accusation is right and proceed automatically under that assumption. Unfortunately this means that due to the nature of the crime sometimes a guilty person is going to go free.

The difference with Baylor and with some other situations is that the norms have been so twisted that it is hard to give any credence to the protest of the accused.
 
MtnBuff said:
We aren't arguing that. I agree and have agreed.
The question is though how you handle the fact that it is most of the time or even 90% of the time instead of 100% of the time.

I do believe that the victims should always be listened to. Their reports should be taken seriously and given credence. They should have the right to immediate protection from those they accuse and they should be treated with dignity and respect with the understanding that it isn't easy for a victim to report.

There are still enough times when the report is false, when their are two legitimate sides to the story, that we can't automatically assume that the accusation is right and proceed automatically under that assumption. Unfortunately this means that due to the nature of the crime sometimes a guilty person is going to go free.

The difference with Baylor and with some other situations is that the norms have been so twisted that it is hard to give any credence to the protest of the accused.
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What would happen if you believed the victim every time?
 
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