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Big 12 Farewell Tour: Texas Tech
- Thread starter BuffNut99
- Start date
HornBuff
Horns Down
Not sure I get the hostility. We're just talking about conference affiliation. That's what you do on message boards, right?
Anyway, I submit that the final money deals for both conferences will be roughly the same. I submit that CU's deal will not be materially better than whatever Tech or OSU ends up with when it's all said and done, which is what CU would have had.
I submit that your recruiting will be roughly the same. You will get the leftovers from CA, just as you do now, like Hansen and Mcknight.
Don't see how you are any better off. You see big urban areas in the pac10, sure, but the only school that has any support is SC, and that's only if they're winning.
Anyway, I submit that the final money deals for both conferences will be roughly the same. I submit that CU's deal will not be materially better than whatever Tech or OSU ends up with when it's all said and done, which is what CU would have had.
I submit that your recruiting will be roughly the same. You will get the leftovers from CA, just as you do now, like Hansen and Mcknight.
Don't see how you are any better off. You see big urban areas in the pac10, sure, but the only school that has any support is SC, and that's only if they're winning.
HornBuff
Horns Down
Misguided animosity?
The Guest
Guest
HornBuff
Horns Down
Well in the adult world we can typically discuss a matter like this without becoming emotionally unhinged, even if you don't agree with what the other person is saying.
The Guest
Guest
**** you.
You can't work a TV deal for your conference if you don't have a conference. The Mack 10 is doomed. And it's doomed precisely because of UT and it's arrogance and greed. The Pac 12 deal can't help but be better than the Big 12 deal because in another five years, there will not be a Big 12. And even if that weren't the case, and the money was the same, we'd STILL be better off for having told UT to go f**k themselves.
all things being equal, I would still be stoked with this move. **** texas. :woot: However, they are not.
Money= Probably more, can't be less.
Visiting: Way better places.
TV: Better markets, more national appeal (LA alone has far more national and international appeal than any city in TX)
Recruiting: We've always been stronger in Cali than in TX, and strangely, the great Big 12 S connections to texas are far less good than our new Pac 10 S ties to Cali. For instance, we are NOT EVEN GOING to Texas this year. We only go to Austin once every 4 years, and most other visits to texas go to **** places like Waco or Lubbock. Not a lot of help there. Now we are going to mother****ing LA baby. Population CENTER. Every year. And SF area every other year. Not to mention going to big areas in AZ every year. And big areas in the NW almost every year. So basically, we are now tied even tighter to a historically more important recrutiing ground then we ever have been in the big 8 or 12. WIN for Pac 12.
Rivalries: I already care as much about beating LA as I do about beating Iowa ****ing state. At least losing to them won't be embarassing most years, like losing to KSU, ISU. Less good geography.. Who cares? Geography only HELPS rivalries, games have to have national importance or else the rivalry doesn't matter. Which is why we care more about kNU than CSU. And will care more about USC/UCLA/ASU/AU/UU than we ever will about CSU/ISU/KSU/KU.
So ya, even if the recession hits hard and Scott stops being the CEO he has been at prior stops (hardly likely) when it coems to tv negotiations... **** texas, Good decision.
The Guest
Guest
Minor point. We won't be in SF every other year.
You are right. NorCal.
The Guest
Guest
That's not what I meant either.
With USC and UCLA playing Stanford and Cal every year, we won't play them every other year, or even 50% of the seasons. We'll be up in the Northwest more than we'll be in NorCal.
once every 3 or something. Other thread had ppl totally certain we were gonna be in Norcal every other year. **** off.
The Guest
Guest
Well in the adult world we can typically discuss a matter like this without becoming emotionally unhinged, even if you don't agree with what the other person is saying.
Edit: You know...that comes across as totally condescending. I'm an asshole for writing that. My apologies.
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Horn really does not get it.
Equal revenue sharing >>>>>>>>>>> unequal revenue sharing.
Pac-12 South = access to talent rich where people know CU and an area we have always recruited reasonably well. You bring up Hansen and McKnight, but conveniently ignore guys like Deehan, Scott, Simas, and Tuoti-Mariner. All So Cal recruits and certainly NOT leftovers. All guys we got despite poor play on the field.
Those two things alone make the Pac-12 a better conference for CU.
Equal revenue sharing >>>>>>>>>>> unequal revenue sharing.
Pac-12 South = access to talent rich where people know CU and an area we have always recruited reasonably well. You bring up Hansen and McKnight, but conveniently ignore guys like Deehan, Scott, Simas, and Tuoti-Mariner. All So Cal recruits and certainly NOT leftovers. All guys we got despite poor play on the field.
Those two things alone make the Pac-12 a better conference for CU.
Is this a double layered joke? If so, ****ing allsome.
Speaking of MTM, he is redshirting this season, is he not?
Even if that turns out to be true, that the income would be the same from the Pac or XII Lite, there are soooooo many other reasons that the move makes sense - which have been listed multiple times previously in the thread. I don't know if you are arguing this point for the sake of argument, or if you are one of the very few who actually believe that CU should stay in the XII Lite, but I submit to you that it is the right move at the right time.
HornBuff
Horns Down
.
What I'm telling you is that it's not going to be what you people think it's going to be--money, recruits, exposure. The cities are big, but the football is not.
You guys are placing considerable weight on destination/party road trips. May be a big deal for the harder core folks, the types that hang out here, but not a big deal overall.
Jerry
Well-Known Member
Just win and they'll come......
The Guest
Guest
Because we'll be playing their teams?
I know that you're pretending this is an adult discussion, but dude, you're being a real prick.
You can stop avoiding arguments at any point now. All you're doing is just dancing around specific arguments by throwing out generalities. One more time for you, maybe you will actually address these points this time:
1. Equal revenue sharing >>>>>>>>>>>>> Big 12 revenue sharing.
2. We have historically recruited So Cal very well, including nabbing some top prospects under Hawkins, whom happens to be the worst coach in about three decades.
3. Our alumni base in California dwarfs our alumni base in the entire Big 12 footprint. We are looking to engage these alums and up donations. Moving to the Pac 10 will help.
4. The academics at CU love this move and will hopefully allow them to at least tolerate the AD, which would be a big improvement over historical relations.
Are you really this dense or are you just being a jackass? (I really hope for your sake it is the latter)
1. Equal revenue sharing >>>>>>>>>>>>> Big 12 revenue sharing.
2. We have historically recruited So Cal very well, including nabbing some top prospects under Hawkins, whom happens to be the worst coach in about three decades.
3. Our alumni base in California dwarfs our alumni base in the entire Big 12 footprint. We are looking to engage these alums and up donations. Moving to the Pac 10 will help.
4. The academics at CU love this move and will hopefully allow them to at least tolerate the AD, which would be a big improvement over historical relations.
Are you really this dense or are you just being a jackass? (I really hope for your sake it is the latter)
HornBuff
Horns Down
They don't even show up to watch their own teams. Stanford attendance avg is lower than Iowa State.
The Guest
Guest
And how do they compare to Baylor?
You said "California" not "Stanford". Stanford is not in our division, and we'll only play them one in six years at Palo Alto. But both USC and UCLA are in California as well, and we'll play them annually. I've attended several games at the Colosseum, and agree it's not a big deal...but can we agree it's a bigger deal than Iowa State?
Did you watch the game at Autzen tonight? Yeah, nobody cares about that team. Except every car on the road in the state of Oregon as an "O" on it.
HornBuff
Horns Down
1. Equal revenue sharing is moot if the net take to CU is roughly equal under the new deals of either conf.
2. I'm not seeing the Cali recruiting pipeline. Every school in p10 has dead aim on top Cali recruits. It's the coach that brings em in, not the conference. CO has a hard time in CO, much less CA You're looking at Hansens and McKnights.
3. Possible, but remains to be seen.
4. Personally, I don't get the academics argument. It's an athletic conf. I've heard some of the reasoning but I don't buy it. Is NU a better academic institution for being associated with Texas for the past 15 years or so? Is NU going to turn into Northwestern now that they are in the b10?
2. I'm not seeing the Cali recruiting pipeline. Every school in p10 has dead aim on top Cali recruits. It's the coach that brings em in, not the conference. CO has a hard time in CO, much less CA You're looking at Hansens and McKnights.
3. Possible, but remains to be seen.
4. Personally, I don't get the academics argument. It's an athletic conf. I've heard some of the reasoning but I don't buy it. Is NU a better academic institution for being associated with Texas for the past 15 years or so? Is NU going to turn into Northwestern now that they are in the b10?
Guess CU should just quit football huh?
The Guest
Guest
Okay. This is my last attempt. BB already pointed out that in recent years we pulled out CA's number one rated lineman, number one rated receiver and number one rated running back.
I'm not clear why you only selectively respond to points that suit you.
Deleted member 807
Guest
@Horn
It's water under the bridge, man. The conference deal has been sealed.
All the second guessing in the world isn't going to change the fact that CU has new digs.
I expect CU to make $14-$17 in the new conference TV package. I expect OSU and TT to make about the same in the Big12-2.
I expect to be watching CU games later in the day on Saturday due to time zone considerations. This will pull eyeballs away from CU in the central and eastern time zones. But more eyes will be on the Buffs out west.
I expect the visitor section at Folsom to be smaller. That's not a bad thing from this fan's perspective, although it might impact gate revenue.
I don't expect the conference move to fix CU's institutional problems. But I do expect CU will have a new coach (or an old coach) in place within the next two months. That new coach will recruit kids from California. That coach will pull in many of Colorado's top prospects. Same as always.
I expect Texas & Oklahoma schools and SEC schools to be more football crazy than Pac-12 schools. Everyone knows football is more close to religion in the south.
If CU's conference decission were simply based on the above expectations, then my contribution to this discussion would basically echo your sentiments.
However, there's more.
The move to the Pac 12 secures CU's future. No matter what happens to the Big 12, CU has secured it's future in a major conference for years to come. It's possible the Pac-12 will expand. Now that CU is a member, it is extremely unlikely CU will be expelled to MWC purgatory.
Had CU failed to jump, CU's future would have been more uncertain. The Big 12 stability is threatened by it's lack of major TV markets. Texas may or maynot go independent. Mizzou wants out. Nebraska left.
CU was never embraced by the B12. The Denver TV market is an after thought in the B12's revenue calculations and CU rarely got prime TV slots unless they were going against a marquee B12 rival. The longer CU played in the B12, the worse they got. The frenzy of stadium renovations and facility upgrades has been a halmark of the Big 12, and CU was losing that arms race big time.
The Big 12 got schooled by the SEC and Big 10, who set up vastly superior TV deals than what CU was in line to make from a Texas-centric Big 12. The core of the B12 is Texas, OU, A&M, and whatever patsies are foolish enough to tag along.
Colorado didn't embrace the Big 12, either. The biggest outpouring of CU fans at an out of state game were the 13,000 who attended the 2001 conference championship in Dallas. But mostly CU visitors numbered in the hundreds. There were more CU fans at Berkeley (7,000) than will attend the the sum total of CU's conference road games this year and last.
While this might seem trivial to you, it represents a disconnect between the school and it's alumni. The alumni engagement in Pac 12 country means more donations, more visiting fans, more excitement, more recruiting opportunities, more energy, more fun. CU doesn't have to travel well to their Pac-12 conference cities, because they are already there. But if a CU fan does want to travel, it will be easier to turn that football trip into a family vacation due to better lodging and entertainment amenities in and around Pac 12 locations.
Plus the move energizes the CU fan base, who has been feeling rather ignored as of late due to the poor performance on the field over the larger part of a decade. Dreaming about trips to new college towns regardless of the outcome of the game is better than the same old same ol'. If you haven't been to Ames by now, did you really miss much?
So Horn, try looking past the network revenue argument. CU fans don't think the change in conferences is going to automatically compensate for poor coaching and squandered opportunities to excel on the field. But it wasn't a stupid move, either. And it does provide a spark for a new era that can't come soon enough.
It's water under the bridge, man. The conference deal has been sealed.
All the second guessing in the world isn't going to change the fact that CU has new digs.
I expect CU to make $14-$17 in the new conference TV package. I expect OSU and TT to make about the same in the Big12-2.
I expect to be watching CU games later in the day on Saturday due to time zone considerations. This will pull eyeballs away from CU in the central and eastern time zones. But more eyes will be on the Buffs out west.
I expect the visitor section at Folsom to be smaller. That's not a bad thing from this fan's perspective, although it might impact gate revenue.
I don't expect the conference move to fix CU's institutional problems. But I do expect CU will have a new coach (or an old coach) in place within the next two months. That new coach will recruit kids from California. That coach will pull in many of Colorado's top prospects. Same as always.
I expect Texas & Oklahoma schools and SEC schools to be more football crazy than Pac-12 schools. Everyone knows football is more close to religion in the south.
If CU's conference decission were simply based on the above expectations, then my contribution to this discussion would basically echo your sentiments.
However, there's more.
The move to the Pac 12 secures CU's future. No matter what happens to the Big 12, CU has secured it's future in a major conference for years to come. It's possible the Pac-12 will expand. Now that CU is a member, it is extremely unlikely CU will be expelled to MWC purgatory.
Had CU failed to jump, CU's future would have been more uncertain. The Big 12 stability is threatened by it's lack of major TV markets. Texas may or maynot go independent. Mizzou wants out. Nebraska left.
CU was never embraced by the B12. The Denver TV market is an after thought in the B12's revenue calculations and CU rarely got prime TV slots unless they were going against a marquee B12 rival. The longer CU played in the B12, the worse they got. The frenzy of stadium renovations and facility upgrades has been a halmark of the Big 12, and CU was losing that arms race big time.
The Big 12 got schooled by the SEC and Big 10, who set up vastly superior TV deals than what CU was in line to make from a Texas-centric Big 12. The core of the B12 is Texas, OU, A&M, and whatever patsies are foolish enough to tag along.
Colorado didn't embrace the Big 12, either. The biggest outpouring of CU fans at an out of state game were the 13,000 who attended the 2001 conference championship in Dallas. But mostly CU visitors numbered in the hundreds. There were more CU fans at Berkeley (7,000) than will attend the the sum total of CU's conference road games this year and last.
While this might seem trivial to you, it represents a disconnect between the school and it's alumni. The alumni engagement in Pac 12 country means more donations, more visiting fans, more excitement, more recruiting opportunities, more energy, more fun. CU doesn't have to travel well to their Pac-12 conference cities, because they are already there. But if a CU fan does want to travel, it will be easier to turn that football trip into a family vacation due to better lodging and entertainment amenities in and around Pac 12 locations.
Plus the move energizes the CU fan base, who has been feeling rather ignored as of late due to the poor performance on the field over the larger part of a decade. Dreaming about trips to new college towns regardless of the outcome of the game is better than the same old same ol'. If you haven't been to Ames by now, did you really miss much?
So Horn, try looking past the network revenue argument. CU fans don't think the change in conferences is going to automatically compensate for poor coaching and squandered opportunities to excel on the field. But it wasn't a stupid move, either. And it does provide a spark for a new era that can't come soon enough.
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