Bohn: we're not about to give up on Dan Hawkins

[TheRoyale90]

Seriously.

The guy is 105–49–1. Seems like he has won at lot more in life than he has lost.

Please enlighten us though as to what exactly you have done in your life that makes you such a big winner, other than point fingers and complain.

Oh this is about me now hoss? I'm doing alright in my own life but I'm not under a multi million dollar contract to produce victories for the football program at the University of Colorado. Since you're super-fan number one now that ralph malph is largely in hiding please enlighten us misty, why should we continue to give this guy the benefit of the doubt? My opinion is that of the vast, overwhelming majority of Buff fans but no... you're right and we're wrong. Sycophant.

 

[Chilly]

He has shown no improvement. Now it's 5 years? I wonder how this would fly at texas,ohio state,usc, florida etc...He'd be bought out and we don't have the $$$$.

He keeps losing and you want to keep giving him another year, and another etc...

Show some type of improvement from year 1 to year 4, if that's too much to ask you're as crazy as him.

I said it was 5 years from the day he was hired, so please don't act as if I have changed my tune. You may not like that fact that I think we should give him 5 years, but that is what I said from the beginning based on what the time I have seen it take other coaches to completely build, or rebuild a team in a BCS conference.

 

[buffsyko]

I said it was 5 years from the day he was hired, so please don't act as if I have changed my tune. You may not like that fact that I think we should give him 5 years, but that is what I said from the beginning based on what the time I have seen it take other coaches to completely build, or rebuild a team in a BCS conference.

I know what your stance is on the issue and it's more from people and the "next year" cubs routing. I disagree with 5 years but it doesn't matter,. He should ban the media from everything from cu this spring and fall because nobody believes anything he says anymore. Why should they?

 

[Chilly]

Oh this is about me now hoss? I'm doing alright in my own life but I'm not under a multi million dollar contract to produce victories for the football program at the University of Colorado. Since you're super-fan number one now that ralph malph is largely in hiding please enlighten us misty, why should we continue to give this guy the benefit of the doubt? My opinion is that of the vast, overwhelming majority of Buff fans but no... you're right and we're wrong. Sycophant.

I think I have laid it out pretty clearly in 95% of my posts as to why we should continue to give this guy the benefit of the doubt.

It's funny that you have no issue coming on here and calling Hawkins a "loser", but don't want things to be personal? Seems like a double standard.

Here is what I really don't understand, at no point in any of my posts have I stated I was a better fan than anyone else on here because I believe he can get the job done. Yet, because I am willing to defend the coach of a football team that I follow very closely, I am now the enemy as well? And then we wonder why CU fans have a bad image nationally? We boo our own players, We give them and the coaches the bird while walking of the field, and now we go after our own fans because they have a different perspective.

 

[Chilly]

I know what your stance is on the issue and it's more from people and the "next year" cubs routing. I disagree with 5 years but it doesn't matter,. He should ban the media from everything from cu this spring and fall because nobody believes anything he says anymore. Why should they?

I understand we disagree about this. And I understand that I am not going to change your mind. But that is not going to prevent me for voicing my opinion on the matter, when 90% of the posts on this board are about fire the coach and his little son Cody too.

 

[Buffnik]

Please point to one post where I have said the on field performance is acceptable and doesn't need to be fixed? The only difference here is that I think Hawkins deserves the chance to do that.

The rest of you just seem to want insult the guy and not even admit job as coach at CU has been more than just about being a coach. He has had to change a culture that was 20 years in the making.

Let's look at the past 20 years:

McCartney
1989 Colorado 11-1 (7-0)
1990 Colorado 11-1-1 (7-0)
1991 Colorado 8-3-1 (6-0-1)
1992 Colorado 9-2-1 (5-1-1)
1993 Colorado 8-3-1 (5-1-1)
1994 Colorado 11-1 (6-1)

Neuheisal
1995 Colorado 10–2 (5–2)
1996 Colorado 10–2 (7–1)
1997 Colorado 5–6 (3–5)
1998 Colorado 8–4 (4–4)

Barnett
1999 Colorado 7-5 (5-3)
2000 Colorado 3-8 (3-5)
2001 Colorado 10-3 (7-1)
2002 Colorado 9-5 (7-1)
2003 Colorado 5-7 (3-5)
2004 Colorado 8-5 (4-4)
2005 Colorado 7-5 (5-3)

Hawkins
2006 Colorado 2–10 (2–6)
2007 Colorado 6–7 (4–4)
2008 Colorado 5–7 (2–6)
2009 Colorado 0–2 (0–0) in progress

Frankly, Chilly, I see a few down years sprinkled in over the past 20 years but the only losing trend is under Hawkins. The scandal proved to be much ado about nothing and I see no reason at all why Colorado is now at its lowest point since the early 1980s other than a failure by Dan Hawkins.

 

[Buffnik]

I agree 100% on the D. The one move Hawkins made that I thought was really bad on his part was getting rid of coach Hankowitz. BSU never had good D when he was there, they were more about outscoring you, and my biggest fear was that would come to CU. I hate that foolish 3 man rush. It hasn't worked in 4 years, Throw that crap out the window please. I understand why he got rid of Coach Hank, but I honestly think if he would have kept him around this team would be farther ahead than they are, just because our D could have kept us in some of these games

When your offense is ranked last in the Big 12 every year, it's really telling when a Hawk supporter thinks the defense is the real problem.:wow:

 

[White_Rabbit]

He's 8 and 16 in the Big 12. I can't see that improving this year. How can we give him ANOTHER year? I don't even want to know what his road record is in the Big 12. I might consider maybe giving him a break if this team somehow ends up with 6+ wins and he promises to replace half of his terrible coaches.

 

[White_Rabbit]

Actually now that I typed that, I really still don't want to see him stick around even if he wins 6. Not that he actually will so that's neither here nor there.

 

[Chilly]

Let's look at the past 20 years:

McCartney
1989 Colorado 11-1 (7-0)
1990 Colorado 11-1-1 (7-0)
1991 Colorado 8-3-1 (6-0-1)
1992 Colorado 9-2-1 (5-1-1)
1993 Colorado 8-3-1 (5-1-1)
1994 Colorado 11-1 (6-1)

Neuheisal
1995 Colorado 10–2 (5–2)
1996 Colorado 10–2 (7–1)
1997 Colorado 5–6 (3–5)
1998 Colorado 8–4 (4–4)

Barnett
1999 Colorado 7-5 (5-3)
2000 Colorado 3-8 (3-5)
2001 Colorado 10-3 (7-1)
2002 Colorado 9-5 (7-1)
2003 Colorado 5-7 (3-5)
2004 Colorado 8-5 (4-4)
2005 Colorado 7-5 (5-3)

Hawkins
2006 Colorado 2–10 (2–6)
2007 Colorado 6–7 (4–4)
2008 Colorado 5–7 (2–6)
2009 Colorado 0–2 (0–0) in progress

Frankly, Chilly, I see a few down years sprinkled in over the past 20 years but the only losing trend is under Hawkins. The scandal proved to be much ado about nothing and I see no reason at all why Colorado is now at its lowest point since the early 1980s other than a failure by Dan Hawkins.

The culture I am talking about is not "winning". McCartney was a great coach, and turned CU around, but he also had some very questionable characters that played for his teams. Neuheisal was all about stretching the rules until the broke, and Barnett couldn't get out of his own way when the witch hunt started. All three of these coaches contributed to the image that CU was a dirty program that was out of control.

We can argue about the truth of that image all day, but the fact remains that CU has been thought of as a dirty program nationally for a long time. This is the culture that Hawkins had to change.

Several posters think he should go because he hasn't recruited talent. My take on that is, the talent has been tough to get here, because he has had to change this image. Local kids weren't even looking at CU 4 years ago, largely because the parents weren't comfortable sending there kids up to CU. Don't discount that an image a program has when it comes to recruiting. WE are not USC, TEXAS, OU or ND. Those programs are going to get whoever the want, because of who they are. WE aren't going to do that. Now throw in the fact that we have a poor national image, and you tell me how you compete for recruits. And even with all that Hawkins has landed top instate and out of state talent. How, because he has slow turned around the image of CU. So when I refer to a culture change, I am not referring to wins and loses, it goes way beyond that.

 

[TheRoyale90]

I think I have laid it out pretty clearly in 95% of my posts as to why we should continue to give this guy the benefit of the doubt.

It's funny that you have no issue coming on here and calling Hawkins a "loser", but don't want things to be personal? Seems like a double standard.

Here is what I really don't understand, at no point in any of my posts have I stated I was a better fan than anyone else on here because I believe he can get the job done. Yet, because I am willing to defend the coach of a football team that I follow very closely, I am now the enemy as well? And then we wonder why CU fans have a bad image nationally? We boo our own players, We give them and the coaches the bird while walking of the field, and now we go after our own fans because they have a different perspective.

Are you awake right now or is this a dream? 13-26. He's lost twice as many games as he's won. Yes, that is a loser. I don't care if he won a thousand games at the southeastern nevada school of typewriter maintenance this is the Big XII brother! I'm calling a spade a spade. If I don't turn in my projects on time over a long period of time my boss will call me a loser and fire my ass. It's not acceptable to hold him to the same standard? Oh and 5 years??? Why because the rest of the Big XII is going to slow down and wait for us? It's like you don't realize this is a business or something. I think you think that the human interest fluff stories are more important than winning. I'm all for getting the GPA's up but not at the expense of winning. Yes. I went there. Must we collectively suffer yet another phony tirade about how they're student/athletes and hawk's forming them as men? These young men are making huge dollars for the university with no financial compensation but the expectation that they will receive a relatively easy path to a degree at worst and at best a chance at millions in the NFL. Please lets not pretend like we're living in some idealized 1950's version of america and college football. Hawk is the CEO of a failing company. He needs to get up and get gone.

 

[Chilly]

When your offense is ranked last in the Big 12 every year, it's really telling when a Hawk supporter thinks the defense is the real problem.:wow:

It's tough to get an offense going when you are constantly playing catch up. In games where our D has played well our O has usually played well. Tonight the offense wasn't the problem (outside of drops and penalties). DS ran the ball well, and we moved the ball fairly consistently. CU had the ball almost 5 minutes longer than Toledo in the 1st half. Our O was not the issue. How many times did Toledo have to punt in this game?

 

[Chilly]

Are you awake right now or is this a dream? 13-26. He's lost twice as many games as he's won. Yes, that is a loser. I don't care if he won a thousand games at the southeastern nevada school of typewriter maintenance this is the Big XII brother! I'm calling a spade a spade. If I don't turn in my projects on time over a long period of time my boss will call me a loser and fire my ass. It's not acceptable to hold him to the same standard. Oh and 5 years??? Why because the rest of the Big XII is going to slow down and wait for us? It's like you don't realize this is a business or something. I think you think that the human interest fluff stories are more important than winning. I'm all for getting the GPA's up but not at the expense of winning. Yes. I went there. Must we collectively suffer yet another phony tirade about how they're student/athletes and hawk's forming them as men? These young men are making huge dollars for the university with no financial compensation but the expectation that they will receive a relatively easy path to a degree at worst and at best a chance at millions in the NFL. Please lets not pretend like we're living in some idealized 1950's version of america and college football. Hawk is the CEO of a failing company. He needs to get up and get gone.

So what I boil this post down to, is you are willing to disregard you morals and sell you university down the river for the sake of winning football games? I am not. Doesn't mean I don't want to win, and it doesn't mean I don't expect to win. I think you can do BOTH!

The way I read this post, is that it doesn't matter how you win just win, and this is exactly the culture Hawkins is trying to change. CU is more than just a football team. So when guys like Hawkins come along, damn right I am going to support them.

 

[Buffnik]

The culture I am talking about is not "winning". McCartney was a great coach, and turned CU around, but he also had some very questionable characters that played for his teams. Neuheisal was all about stretching the rules until the broke, and Barnett couldn't get out of his own way when the witch hunt started. All three of these coaches contributed to the image that CU was a dirty program that was out of control.

We can argue about the truth of that image all day, but the fact remains that CU has been thought of as a dirty program nationally for a long time. This is the culture that Hawkins had to change.

Several posters think he should go because he hasn't recruited talent. My take on that is, the talent has been tough to get here, because he has had to change this image. Local kids weren't even looking at CU 4 years ago, largely because the parents weren't comfortable sending there kids up to CU. Don't discount that an image a program has when it comes to recruiting. WE are not USC, TEXAS, OU or ND. Those programs are going to get whoever the want, because of who they are. WE aren't going to do that. Now throw in the fact that we have a poor national image, and you tell me how you compete for recruits. And even with all that Hawkins has landed top instate and out of state talent. How, because he has slow turned around the image of CU. So when I refer to a culture change, I am not referring to wins and loses, it goes way beyond that.

Are you kidding me? We've had as many or more off-field issues under Hawkins. Have you seen the number of fights, DUIs and players who have missed seasons due to academic ineligibility (or left the program while ineligible)? Do you realize we're facing a 6 scholarship APR penalty from the NCAA for academic issues under Hawkins? Have you seen how many of the highly recruited players have either never made it into CU, failed out, or transferred elsewhere? The only way the perception of the program has changed is that people question whether we're even worthy of being in a BCS conference any more.

 

[Chilly]

Are you kidding me? We've had as many or more off-field issues under Hawkins. Have you seen the number of fights, DUIs and players who have missed seasons due to academic ineligibility (or left the program while ineligible)? Do you realize we're facing a 6 scholarship APR penalty from the NCAA for academic issues under Hawkins? Have you seen how many of the highly recruited players have either never made it into CU, failed out, or transferred elsewhere? The only way the perception of the program has changed is that people question whether we're even worthy of being in a BCS conference any more.

And have you seen how those players have been dismissed, sent packing, or suspended? Things that were rarely done under Mac, Neu, or Barnett.

 

[Darian3Hagan]

The culture I am talking about is not "winning". McCartney was a great coach, and turned CU around, but he also had some very questionable characters that played for his teams. Neuheisal was all about stretching the rules until the broke, and Barnett couldn't get out of his own way when the witch hunt started. All three of these coaches contributed to the image that CU was a dirty program that was out of control.

We can argue about the truth of that image all day, but the fact remains that CU has been thought of as a dirty program nationally for a long time. This is the culture that Hawkins had to change.

Several posters think he should go because he hasn't recruited talent. My take on that is, the talent has been tough to get here, because he has had to change this image. Local kids weren't even looking at CU 4 years ago, largely because the parents weren't comfortable sending there kids up to CU. Don't discount that an image a program has when it comes to recruiting. WE are not USC, TEXAS, OU or ND. Those programs are going to get whoever the want, because of who they are. WE aren't going to do that. Now throw in the fact that we have a poor national image, and you tell me how you compete for recruits. And even with all that Hawkins has landed top instate and out of state talent. How, because he has slow turned around the image of CU. So when I refer to a culture change, I am not referring to wins and loses, it goes way beyond that.

Listen, I have been a big Hawkins supporter and I want want to burn Dal Ward down right now, but Chilly has some good points. Damn you Chilly!

 

[Buffnik]

It's tough to get an offense going when you are constantly playing catch up. In games where our D has played well our O has usually played well. Tonight the offense wasn't the problem (outside of drops and penalties). DS ran the ball well, and we moved the ball fairly consistently. CU had the ball almost 5 minutes longer than Toledo in the 1st half. Our O was not the issue. How many times did Toledo have to punt in this game?

A Purdue team that many picked to finish last in the Big 10 put up over 50 against Toledo. We scored 3 points in the 1st half.

That's my point.

We can look at that performance and still say the defense was worse.

Toledo, Chilly. A team from the MAC that won 3 games last year, is breaking in a new coaching staff, and is embroiled in the worst scandal possible for an athletic department (point shaving).

Seriously, what would it take for you to lose your patience?

 

[Buffnik]

And have you seen how those players have been dismissed, sent packing, or suspended? Things that were rarely done under Mac, Neu, or Barnett.

LOL. One of them's a captain this year.

Edit: 2/3. The other captain is a former walk on.

For the most part, we've got some talented guys with behavioral issues (as always), but a ton of Rudy's with Ivy League level talent sprinkled in to keep our team GPA up. Nice ploy on the Rudys if they weren't getting so much damn playing time.

 

[TheRoyale90]

So what I boil this post down to, is you are willing to disregard you morals and sell you university down the river for the sake of winning football games? I am not. Doesn't mean I don't want to win, and it doesn't mean I don't expect to win. I think you can do BOTH!

The way I read this post, is that it doesn't matter how you win just win, and this is exactly the culture Hawkins is trying to change. CU is more than just a football team. So when guys like Hawkins come along, damn right I am going to support them.

No friend. I'm trying to disabuse you of the notion that these young men are students the way dick and jane down at the science lab are. They are here to make money for the university. You may decry that and despise me for having no morals but I'm simply a realist. If you want an altruistic athletic program then lets take all the money out of it. Let them play for the "love of the game". It is a business and must be treated as such. I'm for the players getting their educations (it will serve them well when dreams of the league don't pan out) but to what end do we have far more stringent admissions standards than our direct competitors? Are we more noble than they are for doing it? I'm sure our high academic standards will be comforting when mizzou is hanging 50+ on us again.

 

[Chilly]

Listen, I have been a big Hawkins supporter and I want want to burn Dal Ward down right now, but Chilly has some good points. Damn you Chilly!

And I am not discounting the WIN Factor either that is being discussed. I agree he has to start winning on the field. IT MUST HAPPEN. But I also believe you make coaching evaluations after a season is over. Doing it right now and calling for his head is not productive.

1) Don't think things like this don't effect the team. We can say how we support the players all we want, but calling for a staff to be replaced right now is not going to help this team win.
2) It's also not going to help on the recruiting trail if recruits think Hawkins is on the hot seat. So even if Hawkins isn't replaced, he has 1 hell of an uphill battle on the recruiting trail.

 

[Buffnik]

No friend. I'm trying to disabuse you of the notion that these young men are students the way dick and jane down at the science lab are. They are here to make money for the university. You may decry that and despise me for having no morals but I'm simply a realist. If you want an altruistic athletic program then lets take all the money out of it. Let them play for the "love of the game". It is a business and must be treated as such. I'm for the players getting their educations (it will serve them well when dreams of the league don't pan out) but to what end do we have far more stringent admissions standards than our direct competitors? Are we more noble than they are for doing it? I'm sure our high academic standards will be comforting when mizzou is hanging 50+ on us again.

Exactly. Academic standards when it comes to athletes in revenue sports means that you don't accept the sub-literate guys that some programs do and that you actually have the support system in place to keep them eligible and help them graduate. If your goal is anything else, you shouldn't be playing BCS football.

 

[Chilly]

A Purdue team that many picked to finish last in the Big 10 put up over 50 against Toledo. We scored 3 points in the 1st half.

That's my point.

We can look at that performance and still say the defense was worse.

Toledo, Chilly. A team from the MAC that won 3 games last year, is breaking in a new coaching staff, and is embroiled in the worst scandal possible for an athletic department (point shaving).

Seriously, what would it take for you to lose your patience?

I am giving him 5 years. I don't know what else to say. That doesn't mean I am happy with how things are going, and it doesn't mean I don't want them to be corrected. I just thing he can get it done, based on his ENTIRE history, not just what has happened here. Believe me, I have just as many question marks, wondering if he can really pull it off. And every game we play like tonight just adds to them. At this point I just thing the odds of succeeding with Hawk are just as good as they are an unknown hire.

There is another reason behind the 5 years though. I think after 5 years, this will be a more experienced team, so if he doesn't show he can get it done, then who ever we bring in will be in a better position to succeed. Look at Toledo tonight, Fairchild last year. They took over teams that were losing, but had alot of seniors and some depth behind them. If I am going to make a coaching change, I want it to be at the point, not when I am still playing So. and Freshman.

 

[Buffnik]

I respect you for sticking to your guns, Chilly. And I see your point.

But I still think you just want Cody to get a 4th year as a starter because you're wearing his Promise Ring. :wink2:

 

[Chilly]

No friend. I'm trying to disabuse you of the notion that these young men are students the way dick and jane down at the science lab are. They are here to make money for the university. You may decry that and despise me for having no morals but I'm simply a realist. If you want an altruistic athletic program then lets take all the money out of it. Let them play for the "love of the game". It is a business and must be treated as such. I'm for the players getting their educations (it will serve them well when dreams of the league don't pan out) but to what end do we have far more stringent admissions standards than our direct competitors? Are we more noble than they are for doing it? I'm sure our high academic standards will be comforting when mizzou is hanging 50+ on us again.

Oh I know this all to well. My head is not in the sand on what college football has become. But that doesn't mean I need to like it or agree with it, and when I see someone like Hawkins come along I find it refreshing and I want to see these guys succeed.

Not to go in a different direction, but I am personally sick and tired of how our society has somehow decided that winning at all cost is acceptable anymore. Not just in sports, but business as well. I am tired of watching CEO's get paid bonuses while laying people off, or "Family Value" Senators getting busted on camera confessing about banging the lobbyist behind his wife's back. I may not have much, and I may not be able to do much about these things, but when guys like Hawkins come along it is a breath of fresh air, and I see nothing wrong with supporting them for doing things the right way.

 

[Chilly]

I respect you for sticking to your guns, Chilly. And I see your point.

But I still think you just want Cody to get a 4th year as a starter because you're wearing his Promise Ring. :wink2:

His ring is to small for my finger. :smile2:

And thank you for the discussion. I really appreciate being able express my point of view.

And actually, as much as I like Cody, I was really hoping we would have gotten some more talent at QB that would have forced Cody to the bench. Not because of Cody's lack of potential, but because the other QB was actually heads and tails better, not just potentially better.

 

[White_Rabbit]

I also respect your opinion, I just wish I shared it still :sad1:. Hopefully Hawk can turn it around this year because even though I hate to acknowledge it, but we are awfully young at pretty much every position. If he would've kept his mouth shut about 10 and no, we probably all would've expected something along the lines of 7-8 wins and he wouldn't be sweating his job security in a game vs Toledo.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

If Dan Hawkins buyout is truly $4mil ($950k for each year remaining on contract) then he is not going anywhere anytime soon.

I saw on another board a post about a "big donor" willing to donate $100,000 to CU to get Hawkins out now. Perfect. We only need 40 more people willing to pony up the same amount to pay Hawkins off...

In hindsight, it was probably a terrible mistake to give Hawkins the contract extension.

 

[buffs04]

I was under the impression that his contract expired next year.

 

[Hi.O]

Didnt he get an extention thru 2012?

 

[buffs04]

How many fans does Bohn think are going to show up to Folsom when CU gets eviscerated by every team in the Big 12?