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Chauncey to become the new President of Operations for the Cavs!?!
- Thread starter Zapata
- Start date
For quite some time rumors have circulated that LeBron is the real GM in Cleveland. I think Chauncey can do better than being a token GM but it's hard to turn down a great job and a chance at another ring. Maybe Chauncey can convince some more all-stars to join the Cavs and the NBA can just skip the regular season and go straight to the Cavs-Warriors tetralogy (full disclosure: I had to look that word up).
Every GM job in professional sports is about making your star(s) happy -- exacerbated in the NBA because rosters are so small. Great opportunity for Chauncey and one of the few spots where a GM could win a championship his first couple years on the job.
Congratulations to CB!! Think he'll do a good job, he knows his stuff.
James Jones for a few mill
Counterpoint: LeBron may be headed to LA next summer. This gives him a year to get there, see how it shakes out and then really make a mark when LeBron leaves.
dyemeduke
Well-Known Member
I love LeBron, and consider him to be the best basketball player I've personally seen. He may not be the best competitor and winner that Jordan was, but LeBron is incredible as a pure basketball player. However, he is also one of the worst GMs around, and also not one of the most coachable players around. Jordan seemed to work well with all of his coaches, from Smith, to Collins, to Jackson. Granted, two are legends, but Collins was just an average coach it seems (I was too young when he was coaching Mike to really know). LeBron seems to not get along with coaches, because he knows the game so well. While I do think he's humble as can be expected for a mega-star from youth, imagine what LeBron could be if he had a great coach and solid front office helping him out, instead of him forcing the hand as he wants?
Congrats to Chaunc if true.
Man, I'm not so sure about that. He was notorious for cussing them out. Even Smith he had run ins with while playing for him - though nothing like the levels of his clashes with the others. Hell, I'm pretty sure Jordan was at least rumored to be behind the firing of Collins in Chicago.
Yep. MJ was everything a coach could want in terms of being the hardest working player, holding others accountable, etc. But he was also so strong willed that it was a borderline psychosis. Anything a HC of his teams wanted to do, that HC had to make sure there was buy-in from MJ before presenting it to the team. Because if MJ went against it it wasn't gonna happen.
And in terms of GMs and team executives, MJ was notorious for snubbing them in public and in front of the team (that is, when he wasn't loudly insulting and ridiculing them).
Yep.
He was also not an easy teammate. He expected your best every moment, whether it be practice or a game. He would chew anyone's ass he didn't feel was giving it all. Jordan may have been the only one Rodman respected enough to give more than marginal effort most of the time.
dyemeduke
Well-Known Member
With all due respect, I disagree with you guys and am going to derail this thread. I think we all acknowledge that MJ is a top-flight prick of a competitor and prickly as a person, but I don't think we can just label MJ as uncoachable.
Yeah, but Dean Smith has also been quoted as saying MJ was coachable - had to look it up, but he said, "He'd listen closely to what the coaches said and then go do it." Sure, I have no doubt that MJ was difficult to coach at times, but I don't think that means he was uncoachable. Phil in his memoir called out Kobe, but he didn't say anything about MJ being close to uncoachable. It's sort of a self-serving statement, but MJ also considers one of his best traits to having been coachable.
As for Collins - I again was too young to really remember, but I was surprised to see you wrote that. I remember him and Doug seemed tight in clips from back in the day, and MJ hired Collins to HC the Wizards. Doing some basic online research, it seems that Collins was more fired for his feud with Krause. I don't remember where I heard/read it, but I thought Krause firing Collins actually was one of the many things MJ couldn't stand about Krause (could be a false memory/news). There's an archived article from the Chicago Tribune that mentions that MJ was actually worried that people would think he got Collins fired like Magic and Westhead. If you truly believe that MJ was uncoachable, then all of this may be construed as general PR glossing, but I personally feel MJ was a coachable player. His immersion into the triangle, ultimate acceptance of Kukoc (who he and Pippen initially hated the idea of), Phil's not talking negative of MJ at all in his tell-all, and the mutual love/respect him and Dean had make me believe this.
Sure, he and Krause did not see eye to eye, but Krause still ran the show as the GM. Krause said something to the effect of MJ never once came to him asking for help or requesting a specific player. Now...that doesn't seem to be true, but there's probably some semblance of truth behind Krause's statement.
Where are you getting that Phil needed buy-in from MJ??? If you're talking about his days with the Wizards...that's an awkward situation and story, so even if it happened in Washington, I don't think that's how MJ was with his coaches during his real playing days. I don't think Dean had to do this, so you must be talking of Phil... ...Phil and Tex instituted the triangle... ...I haven't read Phil's book, but from all the quotes and reviews, this was never mentioned in anything I saw.
Sure, he was not an easy teammate, but again, that doesn't mean he wasn't uncoachable. As for Rodman... ...sure, he started to change a lot in his later Pistons years and with the Spurs, but I don't think marginal effort and Rodman are really synonymous. In fact, I'd say they're rather antonyms. Rodman may have seemed disinterested on offense at times, but he was all effort.
Yeah, but Dean Smith has also been quoted as saying MJ was coachable - had to look it up, but he said, "He'd listen closely to what the coaches said and then go do it." Sure, I have no doubt that MJ was difficult to coach at times, but I don't think that means he was uncoachable. Phil in his memoir called out Kobe, but he didn't say anything about MJ being close to uncoachable. It's sort of a self-serving statement, but MJ also considers one of his best traits to having been coachable.
As for Collins - I again was too young to really remember, but I was surprised to see you wrote that. I remember him and Doug seemed tight in clips from back in the day, and MJ hired Collins to HC the Wizards. Doing some basic online research, it seems that Collins was more fired for his feud with Krause. I don't remember where I heard/read it, but I thought Krause firing Collins actually was one of the many things MJ couldn't stand about Krause (could be a false memory/news). There's an archived article from the Chicago Tribune that mentions that MJ was actually worried that people would think he got Collins fired like Magic and Westhead. If you truly believe that MJ was uncoachable, then all of this may be construed as general PR glossing, but I personally feel MJ was a coachable player. His immersion into the triangle, ultimate acceptance of Kukoc (who he and Pippen initially hated the idea of), Phil's not talking negative of MJ at all in his tell-all, and the mutual love/respect him and Dean had make me believe this.
Sure, he and Krause did not see eye to eye, but Krause still ran the show as the GM. Krause said something to the effect of MJ never once came to him asking for help or requesting a specific player. Now...that doesn't seem to be true, but there's probably some semblance of truth behind Krause's statement.
Where are you getting that Phil needed buy-in from MJ??? If you're talking about his days with the Wizards...that's an awkward situation and story, so even if it happened in Washington, I don't think that's how MJ was with his coaches during his real playing days. I don't think Dean had to do this, so you must be talking of Phil... ...Phil and Tex instituted the triangle... ...I haven't read Phil's book, but from all the quotes and reviews, this was never mentioned in anything I saw.
Sure, he was not an easy teammate, but again, that doesn't mean he wasn't uncoachable. As for Rodman... ...sure, he started to change a lot in his later Pistons years and with the Spurs, but I don't think marginal effort and Rodman are really synonymous. In fact, I'd say they're rather antonyms. Rodman may have seemed disinterested on offense at times, but he was all effort.
Hey, Dyemeduke. Nice post.
I grew up in Chicago. The first 3 championships were while I was there, the next 3 roughly during my CU years. I worshipped Jordan.
I very much recall the belief that Jordan had Collins fired. This was the generally accepted story. It might be wrong. I found this article from a Chicago sports writer. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/...opera-involving-collins-jackson/#.WUpYV7BMGhA
"Jordan hated and basically couldn’t care about all that kind of stuff. He just wanted to play. After Collins was fired in June, the story became that Jordan was behind it. It wasn’t true.
Owner Jerry Reinsdorf had actually called Jordan before they had decided to fire Collins. He wanted to let Jordan know and not be ambushed again like Jordan was with the Charles Oakley trade; though it often has been depicted that Jordan and Reinsdorf were at odds, they actually got along well."
It isn't uncommon for players that achieve the absolute highest levels of success to be extremely quirky due to the same traits that got them there. This is okay to talk about, IMO.
I grew up in Chicago. The first 3 championships were while I was there, the next 3 roughly during my CU years. I worshipped Jordan.
I very much recall the belief that Jordan had Collins fired. This was the generally accepted story. It might be wrong. I found this article from a Chicago sports writer. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/...opera-involving-collins-jackson/#.WUpYV7BMGhA
"Jordan hated and basically couldn’t care about all that kind of stuff. He just wanted to play. After Collins was fired in June, the story became that Jordan was behind it. It wasn’t true.
Owner Jerry Reinsdorf had actually called Jordan before they had decided to fire Collins. He wanted to let Jordan know and not be ambushed again like Jordan was with the Charles Oakley trade; though it often has been depicted that Jordan and Reinsdorf were at odds, they actually got along well."
I would argue that is the same as marginal effort at times. He also had weird **** going on off the court that made him infamous that didn't crop up while he was a Bull. I believe this was due to Jordan.
It isn't uncommon for players that achieve the absolute highest levels of success to be extremely quirky due to the same traits that got them there. This is okay to talk about, IMO.
In no way do I think MJ was uncoachable. I do think he was a difficult personality to deal with as a coach and he had numerous ups and downs with coaches. I think the exact same thing could be said about LeBron.
dyemeduke
Well-Known Member
Yeah, other stories I could find made it seem that Jordan was in no way involved in getting Collins fired. I don't think MJ would have hired Collins if there was a nasty split at the end of their Bulls days, so I tend to believe MJ had nothing to do with it.
Fair about the semantics on Rodman. Rodman will always be in my mind as the super hustler he was with the Pistons, and I still saw him as a hustle guy with the Bulls...just lethargic on offense. I'm sure MJ's presence had some effect, but Steve Kerr has talked about Phil's way of handling Rodman as well.
Alright - perhaps I read more into your statement than warranted. For reasons mentioned, I just think MJ was more coachable than LeBron. LBJ had his ups and downs with Brown, which may have been fine, if it weren't for how it seems he had a heavy hand in Blatt being let go. I love LBJ... ...but I have this notion that he cannot be coached bc his bball IQ is so high and he's been pampered from late teens on (not to mention all the power he wields). I may be just creating generic rhetoric based off of Blatt's firing and Brown's relationship, but I guess that's part of being a fan and not an insider - making assumptions off what little gets revealed to the public.
I don't feel like you're necessarily wrong about Bron. But I do feel that time has softened Jordan's run ins with coaches - much like it will with Bron. As for the Brown and Blatt situations...
With Brown, I hate playing this card because it's not a good one to play and it shouldn't be used, but my God is he a ****ty coach. I don't care what awards he won. Watching him coach is like watching a monkey **** a football. I know he's a defensive coach, but even his defensive schemes seemed questionable at best to me. I'm thinking any player would be frustrated in that situation.
As for Blatt, I don't believe LeBron was upset he was gone, but I don't think he was behind it. Winhorst wrote a great book on the Cavs last year ("Return of hte King") that chronicled everything from Bron coming back to them winning the title (seriously, highly recommended. Not "Breaks of the Game" or "Seven Seconds or Less", but it's up there) and he was pretty convinced that the decision was 100% David Griffin's. Now, like I said, I don't think LeBron was upset, but he wasn't pulling any strings on this.
Chauncey is meeting with the Cavs again today, according to Rusillo and Windhorst.
Hey keep that stuff outta here. This is the MJ vs LBJ coachability thread. Go start a Chauncey thread
Wow. Something must have stunk there.
Report that he thinks LeBron is gone again after next year. Without him Cleveland isn't a job anyone would want who is looking to the future.
It's the lake. Sometimes, it catches fire.
I think he wanted it but obviously something he didn't like. What, who knows? If they lowballed him, could be that simple.