CU has rejoined the Big 12 and broken college football - talking out asses continues

[The Alabaster Yak]

Chances of the Pac-12-2 thinking they can make it on their own?

I bet this is the most likely option.

With Oregon and Washington committing contractually and poaching Oklahoma State, Cincy, and the Texas schools, maybe. With just the Pac 10, it’s highly unlikely the conference makes it, and if Oregon and UW bail, it’s toast. They are projecting $300m TV deal without UCLA and USC…

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

I love quiche!

Quiche her? I barely know her!

 

[Scotch]

 

[LesGrossman]

When we line up the advantages of staying in Pac-10/8 vs joining the Big12 (knowing what we know about our admin), I think it’s clear which direction we go.

Pac10/8 pros:
-Quiche
-Sniffing Stanford and Cal’s farts at a wine tasting

Big12 pros:
-We’re not hidden from the National eye on P12 network
-TV slots while most of the country is awake
-Actually reconnecting with our Texas recruiting base instead of lip service
-Increasing % of student body likely to care and donate to football by being Texas based instead of california
-Unique brand and mystique for plains kids and recruits instead of Cali-lite
-History with the teams
-Pundits actually talk about the conference
-Admin will stop emulating Cal and have to blend in with its new conference mates by actually trying in sports

Taking all this into account, Phil and Co will hold in the Pac so their trips to wine country aren’t put into jeopardy

 

[Buffs35]

Because it’s the only stable conference that is looking to take on new members because they lost UT and OU. There’s a game of musical chairs going on right now and everyone is scrambling to try to find a spot. Some have a spot in a tier 1 conference, others potentially have a spot in the tier 2 conference, and some, like WSU and Oregon State, are likely going to be relegated to the mountain west.

It's just whistling past the graveyard. Nothing besides big10 or SEC matter.

 

[Alfred91]

With Oregon and Washington committing contractually and poaching Oklahoma State, Cincy, and the Texas schools, maybe. With just the Pac 10, it’s highly unlikely the conference makes it, and if Oregon and UW bail, it’s toast. They are projecting $300m TV deal without UCLA and USC…

I'm just thinking that, if that TV exec is right, UO and UW aren't going anywhere. Which means there's going to be pressure, imo, to stay together, at least for the 8 legacy schools. I could UU bolting for the Big 12 on their own though.

 

[SINKRATZ]

I'm failing to see the point of joining the big12 without nubs, Texas or Oklahoma.

I see a couple positives with a Big12 move:

1) If the alternative is to remain in a Pac10 where Oregon and Washington are looking for the first opportunity to bail then it’s a life boat we probably don’t deserve but should be happy to jump on.

2) The biggest reasons we wanted out of the Big12 and into the PAC years ago was Texas dominating the conference and wanting outsized share of revenues and influence, and the theory that being closer to west coast alumns would increase fan interest and donations. The Texas problem is now gone and I’m not sure the west coast theory really panned out like we hoped.

3) If CU is proactively looking to make this move, it gives me some sliver of hope that there is desire to have a winning program again. If the administration didn’t care at all about winning, the easy thing to do would be to stay in the PAC, and let everyone else scramble in desperation. Moving to the Big12 makes no sense unless you do care somewhat about the viability of the football program.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

It's just whistling past the graveyard. Nothing besides big10 or SEC matter.

What’s the alternative? Stay in the Pac 10/8 and play Cal, Utah, Stanford, Arizona, ASU, and the state schools in the Pac NW?

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I'm just thinking that, if that TV exec is right, UO and UW aren't going anywhere. Which means there's going to be pressure, imo, to stay together, at least for the 8 legacy schools. I could UU bolting for the Big 12 on their own though.

?? Why would UO and UW stay if the TV exec is correct?

 

[Alfred91]

?? Why would UO and UW stay if the TV exec is correct?

Not the number you quoted, the number quoted earlier that says UW and UO would shrink the Big Ten pie. They're not going to be joining **** if that's correct.

 

[SINKRATZ]

What’s the alternative? Stay in the Pac 10/8 and play Cal, Utah, Stanford, Arizona, ASU, and the state schools in the Pac NW?

It will be sweet when our first victory over USC comes in the Rose Bowl!!

 

[Alfred91]

What’s the alternative? Stay in the Pac 10/8 and play Cal, Utah, Stanford, Arizona, ASU, and the state schools in the Pac NW?

I think you're ignoring the chronic mismanagement of the athletic department by the CU administration.

I think they'd rather ride the Pac-10 into oblivion than admit that we're better off in the Big 12.

 

[Buffs35]

What’s the alternative? Stay in the Pac 10/8 and play Cal, Utah, Stanford, Arizona, ASU, and the state schools in the Pac NW?

I'd stay pat in hopes of being a bridge to the west coast for a conference that matters, rather than joining rats jumping on an already sinking ship.

 

[SINKRATZ]

I'd stay pat in hopes of being a bridge to the west coast for a conference that matters, rather than joining rats jumping on an already sinking ship.

So using your analogy, you’d have us stay on the sinking ship until a better life boat comes along. Bold strategy.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Not the number you quoted, the number quoted earlier that says UW and UO would shrink the Big Ten pie. They're not going to be joining **** if that's correct.

Got it. And maybe that’s ends up being the case. In that case, I think the Big12 would be wise to try to lock in the 6 from the Pac 12 (UO, UW, CU, UT, AZ, ASU) to pair with their current members

 

[Buffs35]

So using your analogy, you’d have us stay on the sinking ship until a better life boat comes along. Bold strategy.

100% correct. Unless joing the little 12 provides a way to the power 2. I just can't see it.

 

[SINKRATZ]

100% correct. Unless joing the little 12 provides a way to the power 2. I just can't see it.

The BIG and the SEC aren’t lighting up our phone. Time to be proactive. Waiting for those conferences to want us is a death sentence.

 

[GawainBuff]

When we line up the advantages of staying in Pac-10/8 vs joining the Big12 (knowing what we know about our admin), I think it’s clear which direction we go.

Pac10/8 pros:
-Quiche
-Sniffing Stanford and Cal’s farts at a wine tasting

Big12 pros:
-We’re not hidden from the National eye on P12 network
-TV slots while most of the country is awake
-Actually reconnecting with our Texas recruiting base instead of lip service
-Increasing % of student body likely to care and donate to football by being Texas based instead of california
-Unique brand and mystique for plains kids and recruits instead of Cali-lite
-History with the teams
-Pundits actually talk about the conference
-Admin will stop emulating Cal and have to blend in with its new conference mates by actually trying in sports

Taking all this into account, Phil and Co will hold in the Pac so their trips to wine country aren’t put into jeopardy

Exactly. FIND A SEAT before the music stops!!! There will be a clear line between “in the game” or “out of the game” after this. No time to worry about traditions, history, rivalries, or travel at this point. You HAVE to have a seat or you are done for.

 

[4BienemyTDs]

The BIG and the SEC aren’t lighting up our phone. Time to be proactive. Waiting for those conferences to want us is a death sentence.

If they ultimately want us, then we can get promoted and Rutgers gets relegated, amiright

 

[manhattanbuff]

When we line up the advantages of staying in Pac-10/8 vs joining the Big12 (knowing what we know about our admin), I think it’s clear which direction we go.

Pac10/8 pros:
-Quiche
-Sniffing Stanford and Cal’s farts at a wine tasting

Big12 pros:
-We’re not hidden from the National eye on P12 network
-TV slots while most of the country is awake
-Actually reconnecting with our Texas recruiting base instead of lip service
-Increasing % of student body likely to care and donate to football by being Texas based instead of california
-Unique brand and mystique for plains kids and recruits instead of Cali-lite
-History with the teams
-Pundits actually talk about the conference
-Admin will stop emulating Cal and have to blend in with its new conference mates by actually trying in sports

Taking all this into account, Phil and Co will hold in the Pac so their trips to wine country aren’t put into jeopardy

Moving to the Little 12 isn’t going to change the administration’s support level. They’ll probably be satisfied with the move as the victory and continue with the DGAF attitude.

 

[PAC MAN]

Blowing up both the B12 and P12 would be good options at this point. The MWC & AAC could also go as a result. This would be a opportunity to redo athletics out west and on the plains.

 

[Alfred91]

Got it. And maybe that’s ends up being the case. In that case, I think the Big12 would be wise to try to lock in the 6 from the Pac 12 (UO, UW, CU, UT, AZ, ASU) to pair with their current members

I mean, I agree.

I think there are 3 hurdles to clear for that to happen: First, the OR and WA legislatures need to let big brother leave little brother. I don't know how big of a deal that is, but the financials would have been an easier sell with the Big Ten. Second, the desire to hold the conference together instead of let it die. Again, I don't know how much UU feels like staying in, and we don't have a historic tie to these schools, but it might play into the other schools' decision making. Third, I really do think our elitism in the administration is a real thing. Are we okay with saying goodbye to Stanford and Cal and saying hello to Tech, Okie Lite, KSU, ISU, etc?

 

[Alfred91]

Blowing up both the B12 and P12 would be good options at this point. The MWC & AAC could also go as a result. This would be a opportunity to redo athletics out west and on the plains.

I don't pretend to know how this works, but if Cincy and UCF left their conferences for a conference that then ceased to exist would seem like a legal nightmare.

 

[PAC MAN]

I don't pretend to know how this works, but if Cincy and UCF left their conferences for a conference that then ceased to exist would seem like a legal nightmare.

There always will be risks with changing conferences and I’m sure those agreements with the new conferences contains releases of liability if things don’t go to plan.

 

[BlackNGold]

I would not mind the Big 12 if it got our games back to 1:30 PM on Saturday afternoons. For decades I stuck by CU through thick and thin. Weekends in the fall revolved around CU football. I did not like them firing Barnett but I stayed the course. For decades, CU home games meant getting up before the crack of dawn and getting the tailgate ready. Usually one of the first to pull into Farrand field and set up, Breakfast with Bloody Marys, having friends come to the tailgate, close up the party and be in Folsom to enjoy Ralphie running.

I stayed through Hawkins though I did not like him or the direction, I stayed through Embree, But in McIntyre's first season there were two late games in November - Cal started at 3:30 (it is getting dark by 4:30 them) which was cold and windy. Other than having our only conference win of the season was a miserable experience. Then at the very end of November we play USC at 7:30 at night - it was bitter cold and windy and no one was tailgating. The stands were empty at half time. On the way home I realized that the tailgating experience was a big part of what saw me through the bad times and the Pac 12 game times were messing with that. I told my brother I was dropping my season tickets and if he wanted to pick them up he could - he said no he wasn't having much fun.

Since that year (2013), I have probably been to no more than 10 games. I do not see the Buffs on TV much because I do not have the P12 Network. I have become disenfranchised as a fan and I am sure others are in the same boat.

If they want to stay in the PAC they need to fix the PAC12 network. Otherwise get out.

 

[azbuff]

Blow up the Big XII and PAC. Existing PAC teams form the Pacific division. Kansas, KSU, ISU, OSU, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Houston are in the Midwest division. There isn’t a chance in hell, but at least try for kNU and Missouri in the Midwest division. If that fails, and it surely will, move CU and Utah to the Midwest and add SDSU and UNLV to the Pacific.

Cut UCF, BYU, Cincinnati, and WVU. We’re crapping all over the nutty travel for USC and UCLA to Rutgers, PSU, etc., but UW to UCF travel or UA to WVU travel would be equally brutal.

In the Pacific division, the admin can still pretend like we being in an academic conversation with Cal, Stanford, and UW, with some separation from TCU and Baylor. So maybe hang on to Cincinnati and WVU when kNU and Missouri decline invites, instead of adding SDSU and UNLV.

It isn’t the SEC or Big Ten but it’s a solid conference and could challenge for being the best hoops conference.

 

[ahoelsken]

I mean, I agree.

I think there are 3 hurdles to clear for that to happen: First, the OR and WA legislatures need to let big brother leave little brother. I don't know how big of a deal that is, but the financials would have been an easier sell with the Big Ten. Second, the desire to hold the conference together instead of let it die. Again, I don't know how much UU feels like staying in, and we don't have a historic tie to these schools, but it might play into the other schools' decision making. Third, I really do think our elitism in the administration is a real thing. Are we okay with saying goodbye to Stanford and Cal and saying hello to Tech, Okie Lite, KSU, ISU, etc?

On your 2nd and 3rd hurdles-You're together until some of you start getting what you think are better opportunities. CU, Utah, Arizona, and ASU are meeting with the Big 12 tomorrow. That tells me this is at worst very close to being a done deal. Third, if we're this far along.......its clear the people in the administration who see this situation for what it is (Rick George I would suspect would be at the top of this list) are being real with the academic snobs in Boulder. Its this or the MWC. Staying in the Pac 10 isn't an option.

The first one is a problem for Oregon and Washington, and I think its why the Big 10 slowed the roll on the two of them for the moment. Kind of think the Big 12 believes they can get them (and probably the rest of the Pac) if they start by taking the four of us.

 

[SuperD]

So even with a move to the Big 12 we've essentially been relegated to a lower tier of football now right? What is the TV deal going to look like with 16 teams? Is that league even capable of getting to $50 million per school? Seems doubtful. Not being able to make even half what BIG and the SEC are making seems like we're already done. The NFL gets by with only 32 teams, seems like the BIG, SEC and TV networks seem happy to cut all the way to 40 to 48 schools when a lot of folks thought it was going to be more like 60. At this point why even let the B12 in to whatever their playoff is going to be, particularly after they cherry pick a few more of the last high value brands from the ACC.

There are multiple factors given the on the field issues, but you have to wonder how much of the P12's fate was sealed by Larry Scott's vision of trying to fully retain their media rights and refusing to bend the knee to Fox and ESPN in hopes of some mythical payday from new competitors in the streaming market, the TV companies have clearly manipulated things to their benefit.

 

[Jens1893]

This linked missive sums up my thoughts on college football as close as I’ve read. Here’s a snip for those that won’t click through:

Somewhere along the way, the big players in the sport forgot that tradition is the lifeblood of college football. The local rivalries forged within regional conferences created their own traditions, including bowl traditions. For the longest time the Pac-8 (and eventually Pac-10) champion played the Big-10 champion on New Year’s Day at the Rose Bowl. It was always on New Year’s Day unless the latter fell on Sunday. If so, it was played on January 2nd. Legend has it that Rose Bowl bigwigs promised the man up above that the game would never be played on a Sunday so long as it would never rain during the game. Memory of decades worth of Rose Bowls says the man up above has fulfilled his end of the bargain. A tradition in its own right…

The Slow-Motion Suicide of College Football

When Jerry Jones purchased the Dallas Cowboys in 1989, his investment bankers told him he was making a big mistake. Luxury boxes at Texas Stadium were empty in many instances, so were seats. Jones was

www.realclearmarkets.com

The problem with this article is that it is written by a 52 year-old for an audience in the same age range. And these moves aren't being made with the 40 year olds in mind, they are being made with the next generation in mind. A generation which has different interests, requirements and demands.

I have said it before, but even if you ignore the obvious issues like CTE, football has an inherent problem in that a game takes on average of 3 hours and 12 minutes to complete and the ball is only play for around 11 minutes. That's a lot of downtime and I am not sure the future generations will be as tolerant as ours and may well conclude that the entertainment value isn't worth the time investment. Think of it as entertainment budget, but not solely financial, but also time wise. I think the one sport that's best positioned here is basketball, also because it's very Tiktok or IG reel friendly, but also because a game usually takes just over 2 hours and the ball is in play for 48 minutes, give or take, but the true competition here isn't another sport, any sport, but Netflix, XBox, PlayStation etc. I think they may well conclude that they get more entertainment value out of an hour spent watching Netflix or playing a video game than they get out of watching a football game.

 

[Highlander]

So even with a move to the Big 12 we've essentially been relegated to a lower tier of football now right? What is the TV deal going to look like with 16 teams? Is that league even capable of getting to $50 million per school? Seems doubtful. Not being able to make even half what BIG and the SEC are making seems like we're already done. The NFL gets by with only 32 teams, seems like the BIG, SEC and TV networks seem happy to cut all the way to 40 to 48 schools when a lot of folks thought it was going to be more like 60. At this point why even let the B12 in to whatever their playoff is going to be, particularly after they cherry pick a few more of the last high value brands from the ACC.

There are multiple factors given the on the field issues, but you have to wonder how much of the P12's fate was sealed by Larry Scott's vision of trying to fully retain their media rights and refusing to bend the knee to Fox and ESPN in hopes of some mythical payday from new competitors in the streaming market, the TV companies have clearly manipulated things to their benefit.

It has been the B1G and the SEC as the only major conferences for years.

This is just saying the quiet part out loud.