im not sure burks is gone.... a lock out may keep him here a year
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CU versus New Mexico in Las Vegas - Game Thread
- Thread starter Buffnik
- Start date
im not sure burks is gone.... a lock out may keep him here a year
buffman60
New Member
I haven't read all the threads in this post, but I have seen people trashing on Burks and Higgins and Tad Boyle. Yes Cory and Alec have small aspects of their game that they have to work on. But when it comes down to it Boyle took over a team that has absolutely NO size! its hard to do anything with no size. Even if you have two studs who are the third highest scoring tandem in the nation. You can't outscore everybody. Its just impossible to win without the BIGS. I guarantee If Burks and Higgins were on that same New Mexico team or any other team in America with a serious post presence that team would be a top five team in the nation. Their games would be more polished. BIGS do so much, they open the entire court, and if Alec and Cory were on any other team with an actual post presence that team would be a very solid team. Again, It was all to obvious tonight that this season is going to be a disappointment, you just cant win major college basketball games with 4's (dufault) playing the five position and 3's (relphorde, roberson) playing the 4. CU needs size. The loss of Shane Harris-Tunks was a huge blow for the buffs this year.. hopefully he can get healthy and Ben Mills and Damien Cain can develop next year. The loss of Higgins and possibly Burks next year is unfortunate, but hopefully dinwiddle and booker will also develop and Tad can bring in a few more solid kids that can compete in the next few years. i think the future is still bright. GO BUFFS!
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Disappointing loss. I said this a lot last year, and I suspect it will be a common theme this year as well - you don't get many chances to impress the NCAA selection committee. You need to make the most of those opportunities when they present themselves. Losing this game hurts. They had a chance. They didn't capitalize.
This season is lost. We make it to 500 and I'm gonna be shocked. No big men = No post season. Good to see burks playing his heart out on D tho. Too bad CH choked in the big game. Also, Levi is the ****ing MAN.
A couple of points I want to make
1. New Mexico is not a Alcorn State, they are a legit team. The MWC is a legit conference (Basketball wise), I wouldnt say that they are a power conference, but the top guys in that conference can play with anyone. And the USA Today/ESPN top 25 agrees. New Mexico isnt a game that we should be huge underdogs in, but they are not a bad loss
2. Lack of size does hurt, as everyone has stated.
3. Defense was considerably better this game than previous games. Look at how many turnovers we forced, look at how many posessions we had, our defense breaks down due to lack of a big man, and having to help out down low a lot, but our defense has improved game after game.
4. Boyle's gameplan is the exact opposite as Bz. This is probably the biggest issue with the team right now. All of the guys playing now (except Roberson and Mills) came into Bz's Prinston style, zone defense play. Boyle is making them play mostly Man to man, and a motion offense. This isnt something that guys can just switch to. They spent years learning and practicing Bz plan.
Under Bz offence guys would get set up for good shots, and players knew when those shots were good, the problem with it is you dont get a chance to score unless it is exeuted correctly. Boyle's offence is for play makers, and guys have to learn when it is ok for them to take it, and when it is better to pass it around, it is a lot harder than many of you have made it sound.
Bz Zone Defense and Boyle's M2M defense are completely different. A good M2M defense is very effective, and will win a lot of games for you, but a poorly executed M2M exposes your bad defense, and everyone has to be a good defender, you just cannot hide. Bz zone could hide bad defenders (ie. Burks) and it wont burn you much, but then again it wont create much for you either.
These are huge differences in style of play that cannot be ingnored. I believe that Boyle's style of play is the correct style for today's game, and for Colorado (run at altitude, etc.), it is also a lot more entertaining to watch. But this isnt something that guys can execute overnight, it is going to take some getting used to, and Boyle has to get the guys in the program that fit this style. I think come the end of the season we will be looking strong, and can make some good upsets. But in the end, we wont be a NCAA team without size down low, give it a few years, and I think we will be looking to the NCAA's more years than not.
5. And Lastly, Colorado sports cannot win on the road, Men's Basketball, Football, Woman's Basketball, you name it, we like the air in Boulder. I dont know why, but it is something that needs to be worked on.
1. New Mexico is not a Alcorn State, they are a legit team. The MWC is a legit conference (Basketball wise), I wouldnt say that they are a power conference, but the top guys in that conference can play with anyone. And the USA Today/ESPN top 25 agrees. New Mexico isnt a game that we should be huge underdogs in, but they are not a bad loss
2. Lack of size does hurt, as everyone has stated.
3. Defense was considerably better this game than previous games. Look at how many turnovers we forced, look at how many posessions we had, our defense breaks down due to lack of a big man, and having to help out down low a lot, but our defense has improved game after game.
4. Boyle's gameplan is the exact opposite as Bz. This is probably the biggest issue with the team right now. All of the guys playing now (except Roberson and Mills) came into Bz's Prinston style, zone defense play. Boyle is making them play mostly Man to man, and a motion offense. This isnt something that guys can just switch to. They spent years learning and practicing Bz plan.
Under Bz offence guys would get set up for good shots, and players knew when those shots were good, the problem with it is you dont get a chance to score unless it is exeuted correctly. Boyle's offence is for play makers, and guys have to learn when it is ok for them to take it, and when it is better to pass it around, it is a lot harder than many of you have made it sound.
Bz Zone Defense and Boyle's M2M defense are completely different. A good M2M defense is very effective, and will win a lot of games for you, but a poorly executed M2M exposes your bad defense, and everyone has to be a good defender, you just cannot hide. Bz zone could hide bad defenders (ie. Burks) and it wont burn you much, but then again it wont create much for you either.
These are huge differences in style of play that cannot be ingnored. I believe that Boyle's style of play is the correct style for today's game, and for Colorado (run at altitude, etc.), it is also a lot more entertaining to watch. But this isnt something that guys can execute overnight, it is going to take some getting used to, and Boyle has to get the guys in the program that fit this style. I think come the end of the season we will be looking strong, and can make some good upsets. But in the end, we wont be a NCAA team without size down low, give it a few years, and I think we will be looking to the NCAA's more years than not.
5. And Lastly, Colorado sports cannot win on the road, Men's Basketball, Football, Woman's Basketball, you name it, we like the air in Boulder. I dont know why, but it is something that needs to be worked on.
I'm really coming around to the fact that Bzz may not have been a good hire. The lack of talent aside from 2 or 3 guys on the entire squad is appalling.
Positive from last night: Sharpe taking a shot, and MAKING IT. He even drove! hope that continues.
Positive from last night: Sharpe taking a shot, and MAKING IT. He even drove! hope that continues.
dyemeduke
Well-Known Member
I agree with GoBuffs entirely - great post. However, to everyone saying that this team is not good or bashing Bz:
No and no. This team does have more than TWO Big 12 performers...that statement is ridiculous. We have two All-Big12 performers, yes, but just because the rest of the cast will not make any post-season lists doesn't mean that they're incapable of performing in this conference. Are there holes, yes, but Relphorde, Sharpe and Roberson are legit players.
It was not delusional to think that this team could have made the tourney bubble. However, when you lose your main/only big, that hurts a lot. And then, the team really hasn't adapted well to Boyle in my opinion - the coaching change was really an unknown. This team does have the talent (sans the big) to be a bubble team. Losing Tunks hurts in many ways..
Also, Bz was a good hire - he did not leave a depleted team...Just like RP helped move the program up a few steps from where it was, I think Bz did the same. He got some good recruits; just failed to get a quality big. We could have done better than Bz in my opinion, but as much as I want to, I can't fault Bohn for hiring Jeff. The man was slowly building something.
I'm disappointed in this team so far too, as I thought we were a bubble team prior to HT going down. However, leeway needs to be given due to the coaching change and HT's injury.
No and no. This team does have more than TWO Big 12 performers...that statement is ridiculous. We have two All-Big12 performers, yes, but just because the rest of the cast will not make any post-season lists doesn't mean that they're incapable of performing in this conference. Are there holes, yes, but Relphorde, Sharpe and Roberson are legit players.
It was not delusional to think that this team could have made the tourney bubble. However, when you lose your main/only big, that hurts a lot. And then, the team really hasn't adapted well to Boyle in my opinion - the coaching change was really an unknown. This team does have the talent (sans the big) to be a bubble team. Losing Tunks hurts in many ways..
Also, Bz was a good hire - he did not leave a depleted team...Just like RP helped move the program up a few steps from where it was, I think Bz did the same. He got some good recruits; just failed to get a quality big. We could have done better than Bz in my opinion, but as much as I want to, I can't fault Bohn for hiring Jeff. The man was slowly building something.
I'm disappointed in this team so far too, as I thought we were a bubble team prior to HT going down. However, leeway needs to be given due to the coaching change and HT's injury.
Sometimes you get a very different perspective at a game versus watching the teams on television. Physically, CU had no business being on the same court as New Mexico. They were taller, broader, more muscular and more athletic. I have no idea how we kept it under 10 points all night. With them being as good or better than us all night from three point range and the foul line, we should have lost that game by 20+. I don't know how we were within striking distance the entire second half.
We're going to get our share of wins this season. But we're a long way from where we need to be.
We're going to get our share of wins this season. But we're a long way from where we need to be.
OK, I know jack **** about basketball. First, we didn't have any "bigs" last year and were more competitive. We have pretty much the same talent this year as last. Second, I thought Boyle was going to bring an up tempo offense and agressive, pressing defense. All I see is a cluster **** out there. We generally get beat down the court and end up going into a set offense that has a tough time getting a quality shot. I don't remember seeing one fast break last night.
coereg
Well-Known Member
Are you referring to Crawford and Harris-Tunks?
Although I agree with you on HT, I don't on Crawford. Frankly, I saw Crawford as more of the bumbling-stumbling type, with the particular offense that Bzdelik ran. I would've seen Crawford playing at a much higher level in the offense that Boyle is running. We had a young "out of place" Harris-Tunks last year and Dufault was the ONLY other option.
coereg
Well-Known Member
The fact is that CU is actually playing (offensively) much better this year. Their averaging more points; their rebounding has improved; their not turning the ball over as much, and their shooting so far, has been much better.
The issue is that this team is having a much harder time defending in the man-to-man. The zone defense (and this may be something that Boyle is forced to switch to at some point) is more suitable for a team that is undersized.
*- By the way, where is Trey Eckloff? I understand he's not a terrific shooter and is not an athletic big but he at least provides a 6'10" option in the post. This kid was All-State CO and you can't find more than just a few minutes of playing time for him? At a time when you so desperately need size? Something doesn't add up. He's a good defender and can grow with more playing time. You might have AN answer sitting right there on the bench.
The issue is that this team is having a much harder time defending in the man-to-man. The zone defense (and this may be something that Boyle is forced to switch to at some point) is more suitable for a team that is undersized.
*- By the way, where is Trey Eckloff? I understand he's not a terrific shooter and is not an athletic big but he at least provides a 6'10" option in the post. This kid was All-State CO and you can't find more than just a few minutes of playing time for him? At a time when you so desperately need size? Something doesn't add up. He's a good defender and can grow with more playing time. You might have AN answer sitting right there on the bench.
coereg
Well-Known Member
Frankly, I feel that UNM will prove to be one of the tougher opponents on the schedule. Give UNM credit, I know they play in the MWC but they dominate along with BYU. CU had their chances. Even though they were out muscled they still had some opportunity's to keep that game really close.
Tonight's game should be easier, Indiana despite who they are and their history, is not that good yet. It will offer the Buffs an opportunity to get an "away from home" win, if they play smart and hit better-key shots. It would at least get the ball rolling on some confidence away from CECC.
Tonight's game should be easier, Indiana despite who they are and their history, is not that good yet. It will offer the Buffs an opportunity to get an "away from home" win, if they play smart and hit better-key shots. It would at least get the ball rolling on some confidence away from CECC.
:nod: Yup.
Coereg, Duke, GoBuffs, and Nik, thx for being the voices of reason. Some others around here need to stop acting like the sky is falling.
They need to find a way to avoid slow starts, like staying patient on offense at the beginning of games instead of forcing shots. This team is working hard defensively, and rebounding is already much better than last year. Biggest problem is depth, there just isn't much there. You could see it last night towards the end as they just looked gassed. They can go 8 players deep, and after that production drops off. Wondering why we're not seeing much of Eckloff. At worst he gives you 5 fouls down low.
sparkybuffs
New Member
Yes people really should realize this isn't the end of the world. New Mexico is coming off of a thirty win season, and is REALLY talented, and was a really bad matchup for us in terms of personnel.
End of the world? Certainly not. Another in a long line of missed opportunities, going back to last year? Absolutely.
At some point, if you're going to be a tournament team, you need to win these kinds of games. The goal for this team, as it is for just about every team, should be to make the tournament and see what you can do there. In order to do that, you need to do more than just win 20 or so games. You need to win games against other teams that are in the tournament. You need to beat teams on the road that are considered good teams. You need to beat the teams you should beat, and beat a couple of teams you shouldn't. So far this season, the Buffs have lost two games they should have won, and haven't won any games they should have lost. Bad combo. Until they turn that around, it's the same old, same old.
At some point, if you're going to be a tournament team, you need to win these kinds of games. The goal for this team, as it is for just about every team, should be to make the tournament and see what you can do there. In order to do that, you need to do more than just win 20 or so games. You need to win games against other teams that are in the tournament. You need to beat teams on the road that are considered good teams. You need to beat the teams you should beat, and beat a couple of teams you shouldn't. So far this season, the Buffs have lost two games they should have won, and haven't won any games they should have lost. Bad combo. Until they turn that around, it's the same old, same old.
coereg
Well-Known Member
Agreed! I just don't understand what Eckloff doesn't have.
He's obviously super intelligent, was recruited by Harvard & Princeton. It's tough to see, from the small amount of time he gets to play, what's really wrong with him. I mean he seems to want to get in there and pound a little bit, and can score a few buckets. The few negative things I've noticed is that he doesn't set his feet well, reacts too quickly to a situation at times, and doesn't have soft hands.
But I mean it's not like the kid can't come in and provide hard defense and expend a few fouls. It doesn't make sense to me.
dyemeduke
Well-Known Member
What up Coe? I understand trying something just to experiment and see who can play. Last year, I thought Duke was a S16 team at best, and then Coach K started to give Zoubek some big minutes. He started to play his ass off in spite of his limited skills. Zoubek in my opinion was the key to Duke winning it last year.
Now, I'm not saying Eckloff is Zoubek by any means - Zoubek is way better. But I do understand your guys' frustrations with not seeing him out there. Coach should have used more of his easier games to see what Eckloff can do. I for one do not think anything of Eckloff - I don't think he deserved a scholly offer. He is slow, not a great shooter, not very coordinated, not very tough, and not that athletic. However, I have yet to really see him play, so might as well let him prove us all wrong. We definitely could use the help. I understand that Coach might be seeing Trey suck it up horrifically in practice, but still...give him some extended minutes in some games...and if he still sucks it up bad, then let him ride the pine.