Facilities Plans...

[onealcd]

Would love to see something like this for Balch. Don't think they should ever replace the facade of it. As far as other things, sound system needs to be replaced, and I would like to curve the NW corner into the Dal War and have a tunnel there. In regards to stadium size, I don't think we ever need a stadium more 60k.

Think bigger, this isn't Mike Bohn we are talking about here.

 

[Buffnik]

Need is a subjective term. I'd absolutely love it if we could figure out a way to expand to 76,000 and fill that bad boy every week.

Hopefully we'll at least be looking to get over 60k when all is said and done.

 

[Buffnik]

Before expansion, I think what we'll see in the next phase are smaller projects that add premium areas by doing stuff like chairback seating in the lower bowl.

 

[CB17Cubed]

Before expansion, I think what we'll see in the next phase are smaller projects that add premium areas by doing stuff like chairback seating in the lower bowl.

Depends on what they do. If they just do bleachers with backs, like in the pavilion at Coors, you don't lose any seats, but if you do hard plastic seats, you begin to lose seats and they add up fast.

 

[CB17Cubed]

And I agree, I would love to see a 75k stadium, I just don't think that will happen. So a 60-65k stadium seems more reasonable to me. As Buffnik posted aboce, I do think 470 completed to Golden would be great, but I'm not sure what room there is now with the developments along 93. If they can expand 93 from Eldorado to Clear Creek Canyon, to 4 lanes (2 each direction) it would greatly help traffic, especially during rush hour. Since they've redone 6th in Golden near Mines with the overpass, it's greatly improved. As far as parking goes, I'd like to see tailgating/parking available at the old practice fields. That would alleviate a lot of the parking concerns and could bring a good tailgate factor in.

 

[MtnBuff]

Would love to see something like this for Balch. Don't think they should ever replace the facade of it. As far as other things, sound system needs to be replaced, and I would like to curve the NW corner into the Dal War and have a tunnel there. In regards to stadium size, I don't think we ever need a stadium more 60k.

I like this one a lot.

Adds seating capacity but the additional seats would quality seating, the kind of seats that people would be willing to pay a lot more for. A lot of the expansion ideas I have seen involve more seating

I could see the covered area being very popular with the older (wealthier) alumni and long time fans. Outdoor seating but some protection from snow, rain, wind, sun, etc. and easy access to inside concessions, etc.

This could be a money maker long term.

 

[Duff Man]

A 75K seat stadium would be ill-advised.

 

[MtnBuff]

A 75K seat stadium would be ill-advised.

I agree.

I would favor some expansion but only in quality seating. When we get consistently good again we will see demand rise but hard to see how we would ever fill 75K

 

[sackman]

It's only ill advised because we are a long way from the kind of demand that's needed to fill a stadium of that size. If I'm going to dream, though, I'm going to dream big. That means a stadium that's as big as Mile High that gets filled every week. Is it likely? Probably not, at least in the near term. Maybe at some point in the next 20-30 years it might be, though. I freely admit we are a long, long way from this reality.

 

[WasianCU]

Response about the training table:

 

[PAC MAN]

So it seems like the west side of Folsom Field would be next?

 

[Duff Man]

It's only ill advised because we are a long way from the kind of demand that's needed to fill a stadium of that size. If I'm going to dream, though, I'm going to dream big. That means a stadium that's as big as Mile High that gets filled every week. Is it likely? Probably not, at least in the near term. Maybe at some point in the next 20-30 years it might be, though. I freely admit we are a long, long way from this reality.

Bucking national trends of attendance seems unrealistic.

 

[Buffnik]

Bucking national trends of attendance seems unrealistic.

I wonder about those trends and the correct response. For sure it's job #1 to maximize revenue within a smaller stadium footprint by having premium amenities. But I also believe that increasing the number of cheap seats is a big deal for driving that game atmosphere and experience. I think Folsom being able to offer a family of 4 a football game on a $200 budget is huge. Broncos can't offer that. And if the rest of the seating shrunk to become more premium while 20k affordable seats were added, I think we'd have the best possible setup.

 

[sackman]

Bucking national trends of attendance seems unrealistic.

I'm not talking about adding 50,000 seats. Are you suggesting, that because national attendance trends are negative, that we should make the stadium smaller?

 

[Duff Man]

I wonder about those trends and the correct response. For sure it's job #1 to maximize revenue within a smaller stadium footprint by having premium amenities. But I also believe that increasing the number of cheap seats is a big deal for driving that game atmosphere and experience. I think Folsom being able to offer a family of 4 a football game on a $200 budget is huge. Broncos can't offer that. And if the rest of the seating shrunk to become more premium while 20k affordable seats were added, I think we'd have the best possible setup.

Does dramatically expanding capacity make it harder to use for non-football events?

 

[Duff Man]

I'm not talking about adding 50,000 seats. Are you suggesting, that because national attendance trends are negative, that we should make the stadium smaller?

Your stated dream of 75,000 seats is increasing capacity by 50%. That seems crazy to me.

 

[sackman]

Your stated dream of 75,000 seats is increasing capacity by 50%. That seems crazy to me.

What's the average stadium capacity for a P5 program? Just a guess. But I'm thinking it's somewhere pretty close to that 75k figure. And I'm not talking about doing this next year. I'm suggesting it's a long range goal that would have to correspond with seating demand. What's so crazy about that?

 

[MtnBuff]

I wonder about those trends and the correct response. For sure it's job #1 to maximize revenue within a smaller stadium footprint by having premium amenities. But I also believe that increasing the number of cheap seats is a big deal for driving that game atmosphere and experience. I think Folsom being able to offer a family of 4 a football game on a $200 budget is huge. Broncos can't offer that. And if the rest of the seating shrunk to become more premium while 20k affordable seats were added, I think we'd have the best possible setup.

We already have that option of bringing a family to a game for around $200 and for almost all games we have seat availability. How often have we sold out in the past 10-15 years. We weren't even selling out all conference games when we were nationally ranked in the Mac era.

Empty seats cost you money. When fans know they can get into virtually any game they want walking up on the day of the game (figurative since almost all sales are now online) they have no incentive to buy season tickets. They know they can get into the 2-4 games a year they really want to see so why buy a package of 6 games. Then on those games that they have a higher interest in the wife wants to go to Estes or the kid has soccer camp so they end up not going, or paying, at all.

 

[onealcd]

What's the average stadium capacity for a P5 program? Just a guess. But I'm thinking it's somewhere pretty close to that 75k figure. And I'm not talking about doing this next year. I'm suggesting it's a long range goal that would have to correspond with seating demand. What's so crazy about that?

It's crazy because you are going after a goal of 75,000 seats to meet a current average when stadium sizes are likely to shrink in the future to respond to lowering demand for tickets. Add in the fact that CU is not at that average to begin with compared to P5 programs and that is why most people see 60,000 as a optimal stadium size.

 

[slider]

Any idea how season tickets sales have gone?

 

[Duff Man]

What's the average stadium capacity for a P5 program? Just a guess. But I'm thinking it's somewhere pretty close to that 75k figure. And I'm not talking about doing this next year. I'm suggesting it's a long range goal that would have to correspond with seating demand. What's so crazy about that?

75,000 would put you at just outside the top 20 of stadium capacities in college football.

 

[sackman]

It's crazy because you are going after a goal of 75,000 seats to meet a current average when stadium sizes are likely to shrink in the future to respond to lowering demand for tickets. Add in the fact that CU is not at that average to begin with compared to P5 programs and that is why most people see 60,000 as a optimal stadium size.

Set a low bar, get a low result.

This isn't Stanford, who had an 80,000 seat stadium and couldn't manage 40k on most weekends, and then decided to shrink the stadium.

I want to fill a 75k stadium. I'm not talking about building a 75k stadium and hoping to fill it. I want the CU football brand to be in such demand that we will have a waiting list of people wanting tickets a mile long. What a bunch of nancys.

 

[sackman]

75,000 would put you at just outside the top 20 of stadium capacities in college football.

Sounds good to me.

 

[BlackNGold]

CU will focus on quality seating - individual seats instead of bleacher seating in prime areas. Additional seating will offset lost of seats in the bleacher areas. Lambeau field holds 81000 and estimated they would lose 12000 seats if the went to chair seating - so assume you lose 15% if you go to chair backs - CU would have to add about 8000 seats to maintain capacity. I see the max capacity at Folsom as 58K to 60K I just don't see historic attendance justifying an increase. CU's official average attendance last year was 46,600 with Utah being the only game over 50,000 and that was a good year.

I also believe that have to focus on improving the game day experience (which they have been doing) as their fan base appears to be aging.

 

[onealcd]

Set a low bar, get a low result.

This isn't Stanford, who had an 80,000 seat stadium and couldn't manage 40k on most weekends, and then decided to shrink the stadium.

I want to fill a 75k stadium. I'm not talking about building a 75k stadium and hoping to fill it. I want the CU football brand to be in such demand that we will have a waiting list of people wanting tickets a mile long. What a bunch of nancys.

Yeah but the good thing with seats is if you have too much demand you can just increase prices while limiting the lows of having an empty stadium. A smart AD would limit the risk in investing a pointless amount of money into expanding a stadium when they can make a similar amount of money with a smaller capacity.

 

[MtnBuff]

Set a low bar, get a low result.

This isn't Stanford, who had an 80,000 seat stadium and couldn't manage 40k on most weekends, and then decided to shrink the stadium.

I want to fill a 75k stadium. I'm not talking about building a 75k stadium and hoping to fill it. I want the CU football brand to be in such demand that we will have a waiting list of people wanting tickets a mile long. What a bunch of nancys.

I want the same thing in terms of demand. I would love to see CU be able to sell out 75k but we are a long ways from that. To get there we need to start with having a premium quality product on the field virtually every year. We need to have a significantly improved marketing program to make potential fans aware of and to desire that product, then and only then do you try create a stadium to put them in. As I mentioned earlier having large numbers of empty seats available is harmful in the long run, scarcity makes a product more desirable. Then you balance supply with maintaining enough scarcity to maintain desire.

 

[Buffnik]

Does dramatically expanding capacity make it harder to use for non-football events?

I'm thinking in the 60-65k range. So not that dramatic of an increase.

How I'd get there in my dream scenario is by going premium in the lower bowl (other than student section), re-working the west side so that everything between the 20 yard lines was premium lower bowl or super premium club & box seating (box would be smaller boxes that seat 6-12 people), and enclosing the NW corner with premium seating in the lower area. Then, I'd add a 200 level between the goal line and the 20 in the SW section and add a 200 level from the 20 wrapped all the way to Dal Ward in the NW section. In that NW area, one vertical section of 100 and 200 level seats would be the visitor section where they'd have good views of where their team comes out. That new seating in the 200s should be able to bring things over 60k after losing maybe 8k through chairbacks and whatnot.

On the other point about non-football events:
With other events, the age of the stadium rock tours is pretty much over so I don't think we'd be looking at something like that. But there are festivals and concerts that are done in larger stadiums. The new approach seems to be to make the outdoor venue scalable. I took a look at BBVA Compass Stadium in Houston (MLS & Minor League Baseball). Their capacity is 25k for concerts/events and they scale it down to 5k. I don't see any reason why Folsom wouldn't be able to do that. Something like Dead & Company would be able to go to full capacity. But maybe there would be a smaller event that would allow scale-down to 50% or even 25% capacity (like maybe the Boulder Ironman finishing at Folsom). With Folsom, we're pretty much just talking about Bolder Boulder (Memorial Day in late May), Ralphie's Independence Day Blast (July 4th) and then possibly looking to add another 4-6 bigger events a year. Dead & Company is the big one now the past couple years. Could we make it 3 concert events every summer? I think so. Beyond that, it's smaller events like weddings and corporate functions which the rooftop and club level are great for and a renovated Balch would have a big impact upon. They can book like 150 of those types of events a year, which is why RG made specific mention of Folsom as a great place for a wedding in his media address. Those are easy to do and manage. With that, part of what should happen with Balch is a restaurant that's open year-round and does catering for those types of Folsom events.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

I will say it again... adding an entrance to the stadium complex from the West side/Carlson would be very cool. Unbelievably cool.

Through these doors would be an awesome way to access the stadium, no?

As much as I agree with you, it isn't happening. The university has already issued RFP's to convert that space into academic space, including a large (400+ seat) auditorium.

@Buffnik, Balch needs to be gutted. Besides the stands on the south side being borderline condemned and the opera boxes being about 40 years late in terms of needing renovation, the press boxes are an absolute joke. I don't think it would be out of the question to gut the building entirely, while retaining the north and south facades. You could even keep the aesthetic look of the large windows at the corners facing the field.

As to your point about hosting more events, there would need to be some major reworking of the lower bowl. Folsom isn't wide enough for soccer, and barely wide enough for lacrosse.

 

[sackman]

As much as I agree with you, it isn't happening. The university has already issued RFP's to convert that space into academic space, including a large (400+ seat) auditorium.

These two things are not mutually exclusive. It can be an academic space AND an entrance to the stadium complex. Figure it only really needs to be an entrance to the stadium 6-7 times per year.

The CU police use the Physics building as a police substation on game days. It hardly interferes with that facility's ability to function as an academic space all the other days of the year.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

These two things are not mutually exclusive. It can be an academic space AND an entrance to the stadium complex. Figure it only really needs to be an entrance to the stadium 6-7 times per year.

The CU police use the Physics building as a police substation on game days. It hardly interferes with that facility's ability to function as an academic space all the other days of the year.

If they are discussing turning Carlson into a 400+ seat auditorium, it is definitely mutually exclusive.