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JC Transfers and 2nd Chance Guys

VCBuff

Well-Known Member
Thought about this late in the season but with the signing of the JC guys this week it brought it back to my attention. In years past JC transfers were unheard of and guys that were suspended from the team never were to be seen again. If that were the case this year, we don't have Laguda, Witherspoon, Carrel, Kafovalu and Tupou.

Hope to see the positive trend continue next year from guys like Edwards, Wigley, and Mulumba with a return to the team of Evan White.

Not sure who deserves the credit for it - administration or MM - but it sure made a difference this year.
 
VCBuff said:
Thought about this late in the season but with the signing of the JC guys this week it brought it back to my attention. In years past JC transfers were unheard of and guys that were suspended from the team never were to be seen again. If that were the case this year, we don't have Laguda, Witherspoon, Carrel, Kafovalu and Tupou.

Hope to see the positive trend continue next year from guys like Edwards, Wigley, and Mulumba with a return to the team of Evan White.

Not sure who deserves the credit for it - administration or MM - but it sure made a difference this year.
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@Buffnik mentioned this elsewhere, but both. Administration for hiring MM and empowering him. HCMM for his plan and execution. He brought an academic advisor with him who handles Jucos very well. She figures out if they can transfer in, and, if they can't, what they need to do in the classroom to get in. It focuses our recruiting and supports the guys we select. That's why JUCOs are now a thing here.
 
MacIntyre dramatically changed things with academic support and coordinating recruiting with admissions so they didn't waste time recruiting guys who can't get in. We have also benefited from changes to NCAA rules that raised the requirements for JUCOs to transfer to any D1 program, so the pool of guys who can make it into CU has grown with that. On staying with guys through troubles, most of that is MacIntyre believing that the commitments he makes to players and their parents is a primary job responsibility (few D1 coaches, unfortunately, have that attitude). And, of course, none of this is possible without RG, Carl and the rest of the organization being supportive while giving MacIntyre increased resources to make it all happen.
 
VCBuff said:
Not sure who deserves the credit for it - administration or MM - but it sure made a difference this year.
Click to expand...

Rick George deserves credit. Any and every coach wants Jucos and second chance guys, it takes an admin willing to take them. George removed institutional roadblocks that allowed MacIntyre to proceed where others before him were not allowed.
 
Big Jim said:
Rick George deserves credit. Any and every coach wants Jucos and second chance guys, it takes an admin willing to take them. George removed institutional roadblocks that allowed MacIntyre to proceed where others before him were not allowed.
Click to expand...
Can you share the specifics?
 
Ceal Berry is no longer involved in the decision making process. But I suppose there will be pushback that she is a friend to CU football around here.
 
Buffnik said:
MacIntyre dramatically changed things with academic support and coordinating recruiting with admissions so they didn't waste time recruiting guys who can't get in. We have also benefited from changes to NCAA rules that raised the requirements for JUCOs to transfer to any D1 program, so the pool of guys who can make it into CU has grown with that. On staying with guys through troubles, most of that is MacIntyre believing that the commitments he makes to players and their parents is a primary job responsibility (few D1 coaches, unfortunately, have that attitude). And, of course, none of this is possible without RG, Carl and the rest of the organization being supportive while giving MacIntyre increased resources to make it all happen.
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A lot of schools try it with much less success. What makes it work now instead of in the past are the things you mention but also the expectations and climate that M2 has developed on this team.

There are always exceptions but people tend to comply with the norms that are established in a program. If the players know and expect from each other that they will take care of business in the classroom, that they will avoid situations that could lead to trouble, that they will hold each other responsible and that the coaches will hold them responsible for doing the right thing then they succeed.

When these things are lacking you can give all the second chances you want and are still likely to not have a great deal of success.
 
Buffnik said:
MacIntyre dramatically changed things with academic support and coordinating recruiting with admissions so they didn't waste time recruiting guys who can't get in. We have also benefited from changes to NCAA rules that raised the requirements for JUCOs to transfer to any D1 program, so the pool of guys who can make it into CU has grown with that. On staying with guys through troubles, most of that is MacIntyre believing that the commitments he makes to players and their parents is a primary job responsibility (few D1 coaches, unfortunately, have that attitude). And, of course, none of this is possible without RG, Carl and the rest of the organization being supportive while giving MacIntyre increased resources to make it all happen.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I didnt know the NCAA changed rules. Good on them if they did. Ive often wondered if JuCo footballers got PE credits for their sport. Or for weightlifting. Or maybe majored in PE because it was easy.

As I recall the issue was always that PE credits didnt transfer in for anything other than general credit. Which meant that you had zero chance of finishing a degree at CU in two years and that was a turn off for some guys. If I recall Moschetti stayed the extra year after his eligibility ran out to finish his degree.
 
Laguda was a Juco guy as well? This staff has had a very high hit rate in terms of contributors for the Juco guys they've brought in.
 
MiamiBuffs said:
Interesting. I didnt know the NCAA changed rules. Good on them if they did. Ive often wondered if JuCo footballers got PE credits for their sport. Or for weightlifting. Or maybe majored in PE because it was easy.

As I recall the issue was always that PE credits didnt transfer in for anything other than general credit. Which meant that you had zero chance of finishing a degree at CU in two years and that was a turn off for some guys. If I recall Moschetti stayed the extra year after his eligibility ran out to finish his degree.
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Stolen from another board (MGOBLOG)

NCAA changes JC transfer rules
While not of huge importance to Michigan, ESPN has an article about the NCAA changing the requirements for junior college athletes to transfer from the NJCAA level to the NCAA level. Up until 2013, JC students had to:
  • maintain a 2.0 grade point average
  • 6 hours of English
  • 3 hours of Math
  • 48 hours that make up an associate's degree
under new NCAA rules, to transfer into an NCAA school and play, JC students must:
  • maintain a 2.5 grade point average
  • 6 hours of English
  • 3 hours of Math
  • 3 hours of Science
  • no more than 2 hours of Physical Activity credits
  • 48 hours that make up an associate's degree
this is a pretty significant jump up in eligibility requirements. the article states that students enrolled at NCAA schools only have to maintain a 2.3 average, which is less than theh the JC kids are asked. also, the article states that there were over 2,500 athletes that moved from NJCAA to FBS and FCS schools in 2012, 1,000 for football and basketball


For us the huge one is the PE credits. A lot of JUCO kids were piling up 10-12 hours or more of PE and CU wouldn't take them. Also the 2.0 GPA meant a lot of C's and even some Ds which CU also didn't take. To keep the 2.5 GPA it means that the kid has to be getting mostly As and Bs making it easier
 
Jucos, in very small numbers, can be a godsend.

Too many and you become Mercenary U. Sometimes really good - last year's Oregon BBall. Sometimes, not - last 5 years ksu
 
MtnBuff said:
this is a pretty significant jump up in eligibility requirements. the article states that students enrolled at NCAA schools only have to maintain a 2.3 average, which is less than theh the JC kids are asked. also, the article states that there were over 2,500 athletes that moved from NJCAA to FBS and FCS schools in 2012, 1,000 for football and basketball


For us the huge one is the PE credits. A lot of JUCO kids were piling up 10-12 hours or more of PE and CU wouldn't take them. Also the 2.0 GPA meant a lot of C's and even some Ds which CU also didn't take. To keep the 2.5 GPA it means that the kid has to be getting mostly As and Bs making it easier
Click to expand...

Thanks! The limit on the PE credits is pretty stunning if they fall under the Physical Activity category. I guess if you're getting an Education degree you should perhaps do a little more than just PE. Where I went to school in Florida our HS (Miami) had only 10, 11, and 12 grade with 850-900 students in each class. Our sports coaches only taught PE classes. Later in life, the smaller schools that I visited the PE teacher also taught something else like science or history or something.
 
Darth Snow said:
This is so blatantly false. This very thread discredits you. Stop being a ****.
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Exactly. Does anyone have the impression that Allbuffs groupthink minimizes what Rick George has done to create a winning environment with unprecedented resources, what Lance Carl has done to advise and support the football program on a daily basis, what Jim Leavitt did to motivate and build a scheme & culture on defense, or what Darrin Chiaverini has done to boost recruiting with a new "closer" culture, add effective wrinkles to the offense, coach up the WRs and motivate a new culture on offense?

I think we're probably over the top in how much credit we give in those areas. Except with Carl, whose work is largely behind the scenes by design and doesn't get the public acclaim he deserves. Similarly, I think we give MacIntyre the same type of credit and accolades and maybe it's a bit over the top. But on that note, I think Allbuffs sees these Coach of the Year awards HCMM is receiving much more as team awards than the national media and outsiders see these awards.
 
Buffnik said:
Exactly. Does anyone have the impression that Allbuffs groupthink minimizes what Rick George has done to create a winning environment with unprecedented resources, what Lance Carl has done to advise and support the football program on a daily basis, what Jim Leavitt did to motivate and build a scheme & culture on defense, or what Darrin Chiaverini has done to boost recruiting with a new "closer" culture, add effective wrinkles to the offense, coach up the WRs and motivate a new culture on offense?

I think we're probably over the top in how much credit we give in those areas. Except with Carl, whose work is largely behind the scenes by design and doesn't get the public acclaim he deserves. Similarly, I think we give MacIntyre the same type of credit and accolades and maybe it's a bit over the top. But on that note, I think Allbuffs sees these Coach of the Year awards HCMM is receiving much more as team awards than the national media and outsiders see these awards.
Click to expand...

Nik,

You are a lot closer to the inner workings of who is doing what in the program. My view is from the outside.

What I do know though is that we have a program that in 2012 was easily the worst P5 program and arguably the worst BCS level program in the country and still going down.

Today we have a program that finished the season with 10 wins and ranked in the top 10. We have an incoming recruiting class that is ranked in the top 20 and is arguably better than it's ranking. Attendance is on an upward curve as are almost every other measure of a programs success.

This kind of success is never the result of one person. It takes a team of individuals, some providing the leadership and vision, others who can translate that leadership and vision into action and results.

M2 is getting the awards, RG probably deserves awards, those awards are a tribute to the job these guys have done but also to the job of the people they have hired and supervise.

As a fan I'm less worried about who is doing what than I am about the enjoyment of finally being able to look forward to the end of football games for goods reasons
 
MtnBuff said:
Nik,

You are a lot closer to the inner workings of who is doing what in the program. My view is from the outside.

What I do know though is that we have a program that in 2012 was easily the worst P5 program and arguably the worst BCS level program in the country and still going down.

Today we have a program that finished the season with 10 wins and ranked in the top 10. We have an incoming recruiting class that is ranked in the top 20 and is arguably better than it's ranking. Attendance is on an upward curve as are almost every other measure of a programs success.

This kind of success is never the result of one person. It takes a team of individuals, some providing the leadership and vision, others who can translate that leadership and vision into action and results.

M2 is getting the awards, RG probably deserves awards, those awards are a tribute to the job these guys have done but also to the job of the people they have hired and supervise.

As a fan I'm less worried about who is doing what than I am about the enjoyment of finally being able to look forward to the end of football games for goods reasons
Click to expand...

Well stated (other than me being an insider -- I just read and talk about this a whole lot more than is sane or healthy). Things are good. Let's enjoy it. And each party should receive a lot of credit for his role in the turnaround.
 
MtnBuff said:
This kind of success is never the result of one person. It takes a team of individuals, some providing the leadership and vision, others who can translate that leadership and vision into action and results.
Click to expand...

This is correct. George, Carl, Chiv, Leavitt and others all have helped MacIntyre to this fantastic season.
 
As for second chances, you can add Falo to the list. He was important this year and even more next year. We will see with Dino...that he is even here still is a bit shocking, but yes, in most cases, a second chance is a good thing. See if young men grew up or not. I made a MAJOR mistake when I was 17 and luckily only spent a week in jail to pay for my transgressions. I would have been off of any team anywhere.

Now, you seldom see me get a ticket, keep out of trouble, spent four years in the USAF and have spent a career with a company that I could retire from in April if I wanted to. I am glad that the courts saw that I accepted my guilt and was going to do the right thing from then on, and I did. I'm glad that there are coaches that will give kids a second chance and hold them accountable.

After years of seeing Jucos saying they would come here and never make it here, it's so nice that we can fill holes in the roster with some quality kids. I think the JUCOs are great because they thought they had it made, and then..almost lost it all. I think that perhaps they are pretty focused on not losing the second chance they are afforded. Kudos to all the people at CU that are making it happen.
 
MtnBuff said:
Nik,

You are a lot closer to the inner workings of who is doing what in the program. My view is from the outside.

What I do know though is that we have a program that in 2012 was easily the worst P5 program and arguably the worst BCS level program in the country and still going down.

Today we have a program that finished the season with 10 wins and ranked in the top 10. We have an incoming recruiting class that is ranked in the top 20 and is arguably better than it's ranking. Attendance is on an upward curve as are almost every other measure of a programs success.

This kind of success is never the result of one person. It takes a team of individuals, some providing the leadership and vision, others who can translate that leadership and vision into action and results.

M2 is getting the awards, RG probably deserves awards, those awards are a tribute to the job these guys have done but also to the job of the people they have hired and supervise.

As a fan I'm less worried about who is doing what than I am about the enjoyment of finally being able to look forward to the end of football games for goods reasons
Click to expand...

Thank you for saying what needed to be said.

Everyone should read this thread (especially the bolded) every day before and after logging into Allbuffs.
 
Big Jim said:
Ceal Berry is no longer involved in the decision making process. But I suppose there will be pushback that she is a friend to CU football around here.
Click to expand...
Crap Barry is no friend of CU football. Stupid self reporting of meal benefits for walk ons. Dumbest thing ever. What the feck was she thinking?
 
Big Jim said:
If all credit isn't given to MacIntyre it can't be true. Look it up in the Terms and Rules.
Click to expand...
I'd just like to know who it was on this board that told you that Ceal Berry was "a friend to the football program." Not sure I've ever seen that sentiment here before, although I've seen the opposite expressed many times.
 
I do not know of the Insider Bickering written above on this thread, but it seems to me that the Buffs made a couple-three crucial Juco signings this week; guys who can potentially start immediately on defense? These are good times.
 
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