Larry Scott: Pac-12 in Great Shape

[Buffnik]

I don't believe I agreed to that or anything close to that. I certainly don't remember agreeing that the Pac-12 is worth $100M less per school over a ten year period or that Scott has done much of anything right when it comes to Pac-12 media management. That guy can't get national distribution on the largest subscription service in the world so I don't understand how he can be lauded for being smart in keeping 100% of not much.

Too often if seems like fans of an institution rationalize the poor performance of that institution in college athletics. It sure feels that way when it comes to monetizing, or in this case not monitizing, the Pac-12 media rights. So Scott is a pioneer in the media rights business, great. You know what happens to pioneers? They get shot in the back with arrows.

I agree with the distribution issue. Would have been better to make less per deal and make it up with volume so as to be on all the systems across the country, particularly DirecTV.

But if ESPN is willing to pay the SEC $40 million per school for all its media rights and the Pac-12 is paying out a total of $27 million per school for its media... just how much more do you think the Pac-12 is worth than it's getting? We may have lost out a bit due to start-up costs of PACN, but I don't see the revenue problem with the Pac-12 media rights as anything other than the conference being worth less. As I said before, no one east of Denver gives a **** about Pac-12 games.

 

[PAC MAN]

If Larry says that the Pac-12 is in great shape, just announce those new streaming deals and get out of the way.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

By the time the current contracts are up, the Pac-12 schools are going to have earned about $100,000,000 less in revenue PER SCHOOL. How is Larry going to pluck a rabbit out of his ass and make up that lost revenue?

If memory serves, when Larry Scott came in, he added schools and redid the TV contracts signing the highest deal in the land and trippled the conferences per school revenue from TV.

Unfortunately we went first at a time when ESPN and others were becoming reckless with their spending in an attempt to create a near sports monopoly on a single channel. Creating things like the Longhorn Network and the SEC Network which enriched those two with only marginal returns for the buyer of those rights and a loss of viewers as a consequence. In other words, a bad deal that's not likely to be repeated. For example, ESPN has deferred the creation of the ACC Network several times due to revenue issues indicating that there is likely no long an appetite for such things.

Thats just the way the ball bounces sometimes. There are winners and losers.

 

[Randy.Watson]

"I own 100% of this ship!"

 

[Big Jim]

If memory serves, when Larry Scott came in, he added schools and redid the TV contracts signing the highest deal in the land and trippled the conferences per school revenue from TV.

I am grateful that Larry Scott brought CU into the Pac-12. He did not redo the contracts, that implies that he renegotiated an existing deal. He inherited an expiring deal and negotiated a new deal. Amazingly he cannot or will not negotiate a deal with the only sizable national distributor in the USA, yet he dicks around with access in Asia where they do not watch college football. Scott needs to take care of the alums and fans of the Pac-12, he isn't doing that. Before he put in the current media structure, all but one CU game a year was available on television no matter what carrier a subscriber used. Now up to half the games are not available with the new media deal if you happen to use the best and most widely used carrier in the land.

 

[SD Buff]

Amazingly he cannot or will not negotiate a deal with the only sizable national distributor in the USA,

I assume you understand by now DirecTV told the PAC they weren't worth anything close to what EVERYONE else who has a deal is paying. They wanted a steep discount (PACN already HALF the rate of SECN) - which then would have triggered everyone's favored nation clauses and brought Dish, Cox, Comcast, etc. down to DIrecTV's rate.

So the choice was to bend over and maybe make even less of an all in nut with DirecTV or tell them to kick rocks and ask the PAC fan base to drop DirecTV. Scott chose the latter and underestimated the PAC fanbases willingness to keep DirecTV and take their free Sunday Ticket, etc.

If I recall correctly - you were one of those people. Crying how you weren't going to drop DirecTV and blamed the PAC. You're exactly why TV doesn't value the PAC like they do the SEC or even B1G. SEC fan would have dropped DirecTV en masses. Would have never been a question. But you had to have your DirecTV and point the finger at Scott for the lack of leverage you helped deliver.

So is the value the same? DirecTV gambled no and they won.

 

[Highlander]

I assume you understand by now DirecTV told the PAC they weren't worth anything close to what EVERYONE else who has a deal is paying. They wanted a steep discount (PACN already HALF the rate of SECN) - which then would have triggered everyone's favored nation clauses and brought Dish, Cox, Comcast, etc. down to DIrecTV's rate.

So the choice was to bend over and maybe make even less of an all in nut with DirecTV or tell them to kick rocks and ask the PAC fan base to drop DirecTV. Scott chose the latter and underestimated the PAC fanbases willingness to keep DirecTV and take their free Sunday Ticket, etc.

If I recall correctly - you were one of those people. Crying how you weren't going to drop DirecTV and blamed the PAC. You're exactly why TV doesn't value the PAC like they do the SEC or even B1G. SEC fan would have dropped DirecTV en masses. Would have never been a question. But you had to have your DirecTV and point the finger at Scott for the lack of leverage you helped deliver.

So is the value the same? DirecTV gambled no and they won.

Do you get tired of telling BJ the same thing every 3 or 4 months? I don't. Please keep at it.

 

[sackman]

I assume you understand by now DirecTV told the PAC they weren't worth anything close to what EVERYONE else who has a deal is paying. They wanted a steep discount (PACN already HALF the rate of SECN) - which then would have triggered everyone's favored nation clauses and brought Dish, Cox, Comcast, etc. down to DIrecTV's rate.

So the choice was to bend over and maybe make even less of an all in nut with DirecTV or tell them to kick rocks and ask the PAC fan base to drop DirecTV. Scott chose the latter and underestimated the PAC fanbases willingness to keep DirecTV and take their free Sunday Ticket, etc.

If I recall correctly - you were one of those people. Crying how you weren't going to drop DirecTV and blamed the PAC. You're exactly why TV doesn't value the PAC like they do the SEC or even B1G. SEC fan would have dropped DirecTV en masses. Would have never been a question. But you had to have your DirecTV and point the finger at Scott for the lack of leverage you helped deliver.

So is the value the same? DirecTV gambled no and they won.

I wouldn't say DirecTV won, exactly. They were bought shortly thereafter. They did lose thousands of subscribers and continue to lose them still. In fact, I'd say it's a pretty good bet that the P12 network will out-live DirecTV. DTV's problem was that they painted themselves into a corner from which they had little room to negotiate.

Sucks for them. Sucks for us that we don't get wider distribution.

 

[SD Buff]

During the years the PAC was telling us to cancel, they actually added subscribers.

But yeah, they're caught in the rapidly evolving content delivery. Agreed. Who knows what it's going to look like a few years from now, let alone 2024.

 

[Buffnik]

I think that the big mistake was that Scott was such a hardass about not wanting to be on a premium sports tier instead of on basic. Outside our geographic footprint, I think that should have been done.

 

[SD Buff]

I think that the big mistake was that Scott was such a hardass about not wanting to be on a premium sports tier instead of on basic. Outside our geographic footprint, I think that should have been done.

Could be mistaken as I've totally lost track of this mess. But thought he was a hard ass being on basic inside the footprint only. Could have sworn PACN is currently on the sports tier for MSOs outside the footprint.

 

[GoBeers]

I think the Big 12 is actually in better financial shape right now, as that $28M doesn't include their tier 3 rights, since each team sells their individually. So UT is making $43M, OU about $36M, and the others varying amounts down to about $30M.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2015/08/17/Colleges/UCLA-IMG.aspx

Big 12 definitely not in better shape.

UCLA also has a separate 3rd tier deal similar to Oklahoma and Texas - and they get this in addition to Pac12N revenue (for *slightly* less content since they Big 12 gives it's schools ONE football game a year). $150million over 10 years - with yearly escalators it probably starts around $12 million and ends at $18 million.

So with P12 media rights at $27.8 million, UCLA is at $40+million from media rights. Who knows what USC gets because they are private, but it's not small.

Owning 100% of the network is looking smarter and smarter. We haven't tied our ship to a sinking ship like espn.

How does that translate? I don't know, but it for sure gives us more options than the SEC or B1G has. ESPN is going to do everything it can to remain relevant, and that could be bad news for those conferences. Distribution on a non ESPN supported platform like Hulu or amazon might not be so easy.

Big Ten is in a great position - they have set up their TV contracts to expire in 2023 and can do everything that the Pac 12 can do then. And of course will have more options due to a larger fanbase. And in the meantime are raking in the cash from both their primary contracts and BTN.

The problem with the P12 network is two fold - not enough revenue when the times are good, AND too way many expenses for all the non-rev sport live events (which are contractually required in their deals with the current cable/sat providers).

If ESPN can't pay in 2024, I'd expect more of the PRIMARY type rights to go to the hulus/youtubes/amazons. The conference networks only exist due to content being left over to after primary rights holders take theirs. Owing the P12 network 100% doesn't really do much to sell primary rights. Big Ten will not be left behind - they could fold the BTN and the deal with Fox and sell everything (or nothing, or anything in between) to a streaming service, just as the P12 can do after the current contracts are up.

SEC might have some trouble if ESPN can't force SECN in bundles as readily, but unless ESPN goes bankrupt, they get primary rights money until 2034. Primary rights are key because they are not paid per subscriber. ACC has the same issues, but less revenue to start with. I bet their network never really gets off the ground. But again unless ESPN goes bankrupt, they will get primary rights fees through 2035.

The cable bubble is huge and I just don't see how one gets MORE than cable money pays NOW by going direct. (Going direct may pay more than cable in the future). Owning 100% of the P12 Net doesn't help the streaming option NOW because of the already signed contracts with the cablecos basically prohibiting that.

But if ESPN is willing to pay the SEC $40 million per school for all its media rights and the Pac-12 is paying out a total of $27 million per school for its media... just how much more do you think the Pac-12 is worth than it's getting? We may have lost out a bit due to start-up costs of PACN, but I don't see the revenue problem with the Pac-12 media rights as anything other than the conference being worth less. As I said before, no one east of Denver gives a **** about Pac-12 games.

Pretty much agree the P12 is worth less as a whole - better distribution of the P12 Network was possible - but likely wound not have netted that much extra money. Probably could get a few million more out of it per school per year, but there was no magic that would net $10 million more.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

I am grateful that Larry Scott brought CU into the Pac-12. He did not redo the contracts, that implies that he renegotiated an existing deal. He inherited an expiring deal and negotiated a new deal. Amazingly he cannot or will not negotiate a deal with the only sizable national distributor in the USA, yet he dicks around with access in Asia where they do not watch college football. Scott needs to take care of the alums and fans of the Pac-12, he isn't doing that. Before he put in the current media structure, all but one CU game a year was available on television no matter what carrier a subscriber used. Now up to half the games are not available with the new media deal if you happen to use the best and most widely used carrier in the land.

You just dont want to drop directv. Admit it.

 

[Big Jim]

You just dont want to drop directv. Admit it.

I will not drop DTV, I have never stated otherwise.

 

[onealcd]

Oh the irony.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I will not drop DTV, I have never stated otherwise.

I think that's what Miami said

 

[Big Jim]

I think that's what Miami said

Yes it is. Very good padawan.

 

[onealcd]

So does everyone still want to take a huge **** on Scott despite him wanting the Oklahoma schools and him presenting an equity deal to the presidents with AT&T?

 

[Buffnik]

So does everyone still want to take a huge **** on Scott despite him wanting the Oklahoma schools and him presenting an equity deal to the presidents with AT&T?

I still question whether OU/OSU were serious or whether they were using the Pac-12 for leverage with every intent of staying in the Big 12. But that said, it would have been a tremendous move to a Pac-14.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

I will not drop DTV, I have never stated otherwise.

Oh? You will someday. Just wait.

 

[8Jah]

You have a property in Alabama and your brother has one in San Francisco. You can only lease your Alabama property for a fraction of the dollars that he leases his SF property. Your brother spends much of his day naked and sweaty on his jumbo toilet, holding a Mountain Dew and a bucket of broasted chicken. You are a better salesman, more creative negotiator and harder worker...but to your frustration it just doesn't move the needle. Your wife, kids and even your mother wonder what is wrong with you. They look back and complain about every step you made. Shouldn't you be doing as well as your brother? You came from the same god damn womb and guzzled water from the same leaden pipes...and he was the one molested by uncle Roscoe.

To fix the metaphor to the difference in NCAA media revenues, just reverse the geographies.

 

[jizzrag85]

You have a property in Alabama and your brother has one in San Francisco. You can only lease your Alabama property for a fraction of the dollars that he leases his SF property. Your brother spends much of his day naked and sweaty on his jumbo toilet, holding a Mountain Dew and a bucket of broasted chicken. You are a better salesman, more creative negotiator and harder worker...but to your frustration it just doesn't move the needle. Your wife, kids and even your mother wonder what is wrong with you. They look back and complain about every step you made. Shouldn't you be doing as well as your brother? You came from the same god damn womb and guzzled water from the same leaden pipes...and he was the one molested by uncle Roscoe.

To fix the metaphor to the difference in NCAA media revenues, just reverse the geographies.

You probably could have just said that the SEC is worth more money...but that was a nice story either way.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

I believe he's trying to say that SEC geography is worth more than Pac12 Geography largely due to the abundance of knuckle dragging football fans. The people see those SEC numbers and *assume* the Pac12 should be worth those and more.

 

[Big Jim]

Oh? You will someday. Just wait.

Yes I will. If the P12 Network allowed people to subscribe direct over the internet I would pay for that. Requing a subscription to a carrier kills all the DTV customers 2x.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Yes I will. If the P12 Network allowed people to subscribe direct over the internet I would pay for that. Requing a subscription to a carrier kills all the DTV customers 2x.

The trend doesn't suggest that youre going to be able to get that. At least not stand alone. I think you'll see it like its part of Sling and maybe part of one other like Amazon, Hulu, YouTube, Netflix, Vue, etc. It kind of looks like were going to end up with a few skinny bundle providers down the road and maybe one premium service like DTV. That is until the NFL makes its next move on Sunday Ticket.

 

[Big Jim]

The trend doesn't suggest that youre going to be able to get that. At least not stand alone. I think you'll see it like its part of Sling and maybe part of one other like Amazon, Hulu, YouTube, Netflix, Vue, etc. It kind of looks like were going to end up with a few skinny bundle providers down the road and maybe one premium service like DTV. That is until the NFL makes its next move on Sunday Ticket.

I am an Amazon and Netflix subscriber, I would love the P12 network to be available through one of them.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

I am an Amazon and Netflix subscriber, I would love the P12 network to be available through one of them.

It's rumored that one or both have considered or are considering picking up live sports content to bolster membership.

I just read that direcTV is paying the NFL $1.5b per year for the NFL Sunday Ticket thru 2022/2023 season. That explains why my bill was $130 a month.

 

[jizzrag85]

I believe he's trying to say that SEC geography is worth more than Pac12 Geography largely due to the abundance of knuckle dragging football fans. The people see those SEC numbers and *assume* the Pac12 should be worth those and more.

Oh I know, I was just joking around because of the story he used to say it.

 

[8Jah]

I believe he's trying to say that SEC geography is worth more than Pac12 Geography largely due to the abundance of knuckle dragging football fans. The people see those SEC numbers and *assume* the Pac12 should be worth those and more.

Yep...except I don't think PAC12 FB fans drag their knuckles...except for the ones in Utah maybe.

 

[8Jah]

You probably could have just said that the SEC is worth more money...but that was a nice story either way.

The problem with BPD is that you waste your manic phase blubbering about a beat-to-death topic (like this one) to people who are so bored and likely unemployed that they have nothing better to do than beat said topic.

Probably unlike you, I actually have an extended, SEC loving family that lives in the YellowHammer state and its just not possible to convey the level of ennui, envious ridicule and self-parody behind my little bon-bon.

Anyhow...please move on.