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Pac-12 Network is restructuring

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
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Junta Member
If your the provider (dish, xfinity) why carry the channel at all if the customer can go right around you?

I think what really probably happens is that a piece of the Pac12 Network is sold as part of the deal to our next partner. At which point my guess is they will cut back on the cost of covering all those sports we have and probably reduce the number of channels.
You do realize that other tv networks have streaming options that don't require a cable subscription, right?
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
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Junta Member
I wasnt. Will that really raise more money than they get from subsciber fees?
I don't know. Not my area of expertise and things are changing so fast. I can tell what's not working for PACN, what other conference networks do differently that is working, and I think I can see some places that absolutely increase access for fans. Within that, there are some pretty obvious elements of the vision that were flawed. Miscalculations that were not the way the industry went and values that were misplaced toward non-revenue content.

I see the Big Ten Network as the gold standard here. They've been doing it the longest and doing it the best.

Here's their BTN2Go "Plus" package (you don't need a cable subscription, but you don't get the games that are televised): https://www.btn2go.com/packages?type=0

For a monthly pass to watch your school's games, you pay $9.95 per month.
For a monthly pass to watch all conference games, you pay $14.95 per month.

Content is the non-televised stuff and is student-produced. It is an add-on (or stand-alone) that does not get you access to the televised content on BTN2Go. Why couldn't the Pac-12 have this setup while having a single national channel and app?
 
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DBT

Club Member
Club Member
It will be really interesting when these conference network contracts come up for renewal.
 

PAHIBuff

Putin's Dildo
It's well documented that the majority of our alumni live in the west, with California by far being the #2 state students come from. I agree the PAC fans in general are not as die-hard as those in other parts of the country, and it doesn't actually bother me - even when I was in Boulder, if the team sucked and the weather was great and a nearby 14er was calling my name.... well, I had to think about it at least. So it is with much of the PAC - moreso than any other conference, we have amazing things to do at our back door. Nonetheless, though smaller, I think the fans of Oregon, Washington, and Utah are some of the more passionate fan bases in the country, and other locations are pretty damn incredible when the team gives the fans a bit of reason for hope, CU included.
I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but just as theoretical point, what does having a bunch of alums living in the Pacific Time Zone do for CU? Not directed at you specifically, but a lot of Allbuffs posters make that point. My response would be that if our being in the conference doesn't translate to $$ donations from these folks, or butts in seats (home or away), then who cares? Just curious as to the reasoning on this topic.
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but just as theoretical point, what does having a bunch of alums living in the Pacific Time Zone do for CU? Not directed at you specifically, but a lot of Allbuffs posters make that point. My response would be that if our being in the conference doesn't translate to $$ donations from these folks, or butts in seats (home or away), then who cares? Just curious as to the reasoning on this topic.
Got the IPF built. Project had been on the drawing board and unfounded since 2002 I tbelieve
 

PAHIBuff

Putin's Dildo
Got the IPF built. Project had been on the drawing board and unfounded since 2002 I tbelieve
If you're saying that being in the conference was the cause of CU getting more $$ to build stuff I get that and it's great, but I still don't understand the "that's where many CU alums live" argument for being in the PAC 12.
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
If you're saying that being in the conference was the cause of CU getting more $$ to build stuff I get that and it's great, but I still don't understand the "that's where many CU alums live" argument for being in the PAC 12.
That’s the argument. Fundraising & cultural fit.
 

MiamiBuffs

Wᴉɐɯᴉ qnɟɟs
Club Member
I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but just as theoretical point, what does having a bunch of alums living in the Pacific Time Zone do for CU? Not directed at you specifically, but a lot of Allbuffs posters make that point. My response would be that if our being in the conference doesn't translate to $$ donations from these folks, or butts in seats (home or away), then who cares? Just curious as to the reasoning on this topic.
The theory is, outside the die hard alums, are alums in California, Oregon, and Washtington that are now more likely to reconnect and maybe re-engage because when Oregon or UCLA v CU its on their TV to watch. They see it on the local news. Its in the paper because its conference round up. Now, its right in front of them again. Maybe they even go to next years BB game. That exposure and reengagement could lead to more giving in the end.

Because out of state tuition is extremely important to any university it also puts CU in their living rooms on their TVs which may help recruit more future students from areas where were more likely to attract them from. Out of staters give more over the course of their education than in staters do. Probably after wards too.
 
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MiamiBuffs

Wᴉɐɯᴉ qnɟɟs
Club Member
I don't know. Not my area of expertise and things are changing so fast. I can tell what's not working for PACN, what other conference networks do differently that is working, and I think I can see some places that absolutely increase access for fans. Within that, there are some pretty obvious elements of the vision that were flawed. Miscalculations that were not the way the industry went and values that were misplaced toward non-revenue content.

I see the Big Ten Network as the gold standard here. They've been doing it the longest and doing it the best.

Here's their BTN2Go "Plus" package (you don't need a cable subscription, but you don't get the games that are televised): https://www.btn2go.com/packages?type=0

For a monthly pass to watch your school's games, you pay $9.95 per month.
For a monthly pass to watch all conference games, you pay $14.95 per month.

Content is the non-televised stuff and is student-produced. It is an add-on (or stand-alone) that does not get you access to the televised content on BTN2Go. Why couldn't the Pac-12 have this setup while having a single national channel and app?
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https://sensortower.com/ios/us/the-big-ten-network/app/btn2go/474679690/overview
Sound familiar?

Frankly, I dont think that this is whats the future. People still want to buy a bundle. They just want the one that they want and doesnt include **** like the Hallmark channel. So now your seeing these skinny bundles like SlingTV, SonyVue, YouTube, and FutboTV. I think this is where the future is. And the future is fractured. But still important to be in some kind of bundle.

What your talking about above is nice but I dont think it moves the financial needle. Thats why i think when the contracts get renewed we see the P12N sold to ESPN or Fox and they go to the table and tell the delivery guys add on .50¢ for the P12N (4¢ for CU)...
 

PAHIBuff

Putin's Dildo
The theory is, outside the die hard alums, are alums in California, Oregon, and Washtington that are now more likely to reconnect and maybe re-engage because when Oregon or UCLA v CU its on their TV to watch. They see it on the local news. Its in the paper because its conference round up. Now, its right in front of them again. Maybe they even go to next years BB game. That exposure and reengagement could lead to more giving in the end.

Because out of state tuition is extremely important to any university it also puts CU in their living rooms on their TVs which may help recruit more future students from areas where were more likely to attract them from. Out of staters give more over the course of their education than in staters do. Probably after wards too.
Interesting. Thanks.
 

MiamiBuffs

Wᴉɐɯᴉ qnɟɟs
Club Member
Interesting. Thanks.
When I moved back to Miami in the late 90s I put the CU flag up in front of my house. Low and behold, a neighbor down the street approached me a day or two later and informed me he was an alum and struck up a conversation. In the conversation I gleaned that he was extremely disconnected from the University and really had no idea what was going on back in Boulder.
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
View attachment 24897 View attachment 24898

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Sound familiar?

Frankly, I dont think that this is whats the future. People still want to buy a bundle. They just want the one that they want and doesnt include **** like the Hallmark channel. So now your seeing these skinny bundles like SlingTV, SonyVue, YouTube, and FutboTV. I think this is where the future is. And the future is fractured. But still important to be in some kind of bundle.

What your talking about above is nice but I dont think it moves the financial needle. Thats why i think when the contracts get renewed we see the P12N sold to ESPN or Fox and they go to the table and tell the delivery guys add on .50¢ for the P12N (4¢ for CU)...
I think the streamlining onto 1 channel while eliminating all the costs associated with professional production of sporting events fewer than 100 people actually tune into is what moves the needle. If “Plus” pays for itself while satisfying the presidents on their conference of champions priority and makes PACN much more profitable (higher margins) and better packaged for carriage than needing 5 channel slots, it’s a big win.
 

PAHIBuff

Putin's Dildo
When I moved back to Miami in the late 90s I put the CU flag up in front of my house. Low and behold, a neighbor down the street approached me a day or two later and informed me he was an alum and struck up a conversation. In the conversation I gleaned that he was extremely disconnected from the University and really had no idea what was going on back in Boulder.
Yeah, I guess there are all kinds of alums with various levels of engagement/interest. I wonder what determines that?
 

MiamiBuffs

Wᴉɐɯᴉ qnɟɟs
Club Member
I think the streamlining onto 1 channel while eliminating all the costs associated with professional production of sporting events fewer than 100 people actually tune into is what moves the needle. If “Plus” pays for itself while satisfying the presidents on their conference of champions priority and makes PACN much more profitable (higher margins) and better packaged for carriage than needing 5 channel slots, it’s a big win.
I think the Presidents are after something beyond football. A sport which is uniquely and only American. I really dont know what their Pacific Rim initiatives are doing for them. But if they are using the fact that having those sports on TV to attract Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Indonesians, Australians, and New Zealanders to the PAC 12 (your never going to see that in the Pac12N numbers) to pay out of state tuition than were financially never going to compete with the Alabama Channel or the Ohio State Channel.

In other words, is it paying for itself in some other way?
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
I think the Presidents are after something beyond football. A sport which is uniquely and only American. I really dont know what their Pacific Rim initiatives are doing for them. But if they are using the fact that having those sports on TV to attract Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Indonesians, Australians, and New Zealanders to the PAC 12 (your never going to see that in the Pac12N numbers) to pay out of state tuition than were financially never going to compete with the Alabama Channel or the Ohio State Channel.

In other words, is it paying for itself in some other way?
Yep. I don't think the Pacific Rim broadcasts are about sports or sports revenue in the least. It's about branding the schools to international students who pay top rate and also to the companies that fund research in American universities in order to gain prestige.
 

Jalapeno

NFS Drift King
Club Member
I have tried the Pac-12 Now app because I couldn't watch the Pac-12 Network through Xfinity at home and that Pac-12 Now app is trash like the others have said.

While I had no problems with Comcast, I just changed my AT&T plan to Unlimited Choice and I can get $15 off of DTV Now and I can watch DTV Now anywhere & anytime I want to on my phone since DTV Now streams do not count against your data plan. While I'm at that, I'm considering cutting my Comcast online TV (which includes the Pac-12 Network channel family) subscription but I'm going to be able to use DTV Now & Sling TV as a bargaining chip.

Nik showed the BTN2GO stuff...that is more like what I want and if they allow us to watch replays of football & basketball games that I missed, I'm definitely signing up for that. If not, waste of my $ and time.
 

Jalapeno

NFS Drift King
Club Member
When I moved back to Miami in the late 90s I put the CU flag up in front of my house. Low and behold, a neighbor down the street approached me a day or two later and informed me he was an alum and struck up a conversation. In the conversation I gleaned that he was extremely disconnected from the University and really had no idea what was going on back in Boulder.
I had the same problem when I went to college in DC. Only watched the Buffs at least one time (****braska game) and sometimes the CSU game was on national TV but the Buffs weren't on the ESPN family of channels that often. Having the Pac-12 Network at the time would have been a huge help.
 

MiamiBuffs

Wᴉɐɯᴉ qnɟɟs
Club Member
I had the same problem when I went to college in DC. Only watched the Buffs at least one time (****braska game) and sometimes the CSU game was on national TV but the Buffs weren't on the ESPN family of channels that often. Having the Pac-12 Network at the time would have been a huge help.
Yup. Exact same in Miami. Once the Big8 was out of the Orange Bowl contracts Big8 games were never on TV. I'd get the CU CSU season opener and NU CU on the day after thanksgiving and that was it along with some Ricardo Patton hoops games when they were ranked.
 

MiamiBuffs

Wᴉɐɯᴉ qnɟɟs
Club Member
I have tried the Pac-12 Now app because I couldn't watch the Pac-12 Network through Xfinity at home and that Pac-12 Now app is trash like the others have said.

While I had no problems with Comcast, I just changed my AT&T plan to Unlimited Choice and I can get $15 off of DTV Now and I can watch DTV Now anywhere & anytime I want to on my phone since DTV Now streams do not count against your data plan. While I'm at that, I'm considering cutting my Comcast online TV (which includes the Pac-12 Network channel family) subscription but I'm going to be able to use DTV Now & Sling TV as a bargaining chip.

Nik showed the BTN2GO stuff...that is more like what I want and if they allow us to watch replays of football & basketball games that I missed, I'm definitely signing up for that. If not, waste of my $ and time.
Id say keep your Comcast for broadband and add SlingTV. You can get all P12N channels. But if you watch over ATT bandwith youd probably be better on DTV
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
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Junta Member
Growing up, the only Big 8 game I would see every year living on the east coast was the NU-OU game.

Pac-10 games back then? Often a mention in the Sunday paper with the score not known because the game wasn't done before they went to press.

We're all formed by our experiences and, particularly, the strong connections we formed as kids. The way media was until around 1990 means that pretty much everyone over the age of 40 who grew up in the eastern time zone didn't know much about Big 8 football other than OU & NU and exposure to the Pac-10 was pretty much limited to cheering against USC when they played Notre Dame and then not being able to figure out how those soft Pac teams were usually winning the Rose Bowl over the mighty Big Ten.
 

buffgal

Club Member
Club Member
I want to be able to watch what is on Pac12 Mountain when CU is playing. The Pac 12 app doesn't let me do that with Dish. I don't live in the footprint of the Pac 12, so there is no cable company here that will give me access to Pac12 Mountain.

Games on the app lag behind real time by several minutes by the end of games in my experience. That isn't acceptable.

WBB and volleyball are the sports I follow most. I do watch football and MBB is it's on television and I can get it. In WBB, CU isn't good enough to get on the national broadcast on a regular basis so I stream it. It's so slow. It doesn't cut out because I have a high speed internet connection. By games end, if I am not careful, the game will be over and the score on Twitter, etc., but the game isn't over on the app. For volleyball, we have a better team so it gets televised on national network in real time more often. If it's on the app, again it's too slow. Even Live Stats are ahead of the broadcast when I stream it.
 

Jalapeno

NFS Drift King
Club Member
Id say keep your Comcast for broadband and add SlingTV. You can get all P12N channels. But if you watch over ATT bandwith youd probably be better on DTV
To be more specific, I'm an AT&T mobile customer and DTV Now streaming does not count against the mobile 22GB data cap. And even cut $25 from my monthly phone bill. I'd keep Comcast anyway because anything P12N related would go against that 22GB cap but I did watch Sling TV without much problems with a good connection. Bottom line is that I wish P12N would get a deal with DTV Now (doesn't have to be the usual DTV stuff) and be done with it instead of waiting until the 2020s when the media rights deal is bid on again.
 

MiamiBuffs

Wᴉɐɯᴉ qnɟɟs
Club Member
To be more specific, I'm an AT&T mobile customer and DTV Now streaming does not count against the mobile 22GB data cap. And even cut $25 from my monthly phone bill. I'd keep Comcast anyway because anything P12N related would go against that 22GB cap but I did watch Sling TV without much problems with a good connection. Bottom line is that I wish P12N would get a deal with DTV Now (doesn't have to be the usual DTV stuff) and be done with it instead of waiting until the 2020s when the media rights deal is bid on again.
The Pac12N has set a standard for what they want for their content. DirecTV dragged their feet and thus gave up favored nation status to Dish and Comcast which set the price. DTV wants to pay far less than the standard deal. So, I dont think your going to see a deal.

ROBERT CHANNICK Chicago Tribune
Jan 21, 2018

Pace is accelerating


Traditional pay-TV providers — cable, satellite and telephone companies — lost 1.7 million subscribers in 2016, and the pace is accelerating, with more than 2.6 million cutting the cord through September of 2017, according to MoffettNathanson.

At the same time, virtual distributors gained more than 1.7 million subscribers this year through September. Link

People seem to be simply signing up for something else after they cancel. But that doesnt mean they will sign up for the bloat, which may include the P12N if you are not a fan. And the big bucks schools are seeing come from that bloat.

Anyway, I now carry 3 services for less money than DTV. The future is a fractured distribution where you get X, Y, and Z from different providers. Maybe, given the above the P12N will be able to make it on a direct streaming service.
 

Jalapeno

NFS Drift King
Club Member
Anyway, I now carry 3 services for less money than DTV. The future is a fractured distribution where you get X, Y, and Z from different providers. Maybe, given the above the P12N will be able to make it on a direct streaming service.
That's where I see things going too and I sincerely hope the P12N becomes the sole channel for all things P12 as long as CU is getting the $ that others are getting.
 

Buffs35

Well-Known Member
That's where I see things going too and I sincerely hope the P12N becomes the sole channel for all things P12 as long as CU is getting the $ that others are getting.
The P12N is already the sole channel for all things P12, and CU is getting all the $, that is the problem.
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
The P12N is already the sole channel for all things P12, and CU is getting all the $, that is the problem.
Not true. Pac-12 deal with ESPN & Fox brings in an average of $250M per year. The problem is that PACN isn't returning any profit beyond that.

Edit: Decided to do the math.

Pac-12 paid each member $29.5M in the last reporting period. LINK

ESPN/Fox is at least $20.8M of that (250/12). But probably a bit more because there have been football time slots added since the original deal.

On top of that, we have the bowl game and NCAA tournament payments the conference receives.

So what are the actual profits per school from PACN? My guess is somewhere in the $4-6M range at best.
 

Buffs35

Well-Known Member
Not true. Pac-12 deal with ESPN & Fox brings in an average of $250M per year. The problem is that PACN isn't returning any profit beyond that.

Edit: Decided to do the math.

Pac-12 paid each member $29.5M in the last reporting period. LINK

ESPN/Fox is at least $20.8M of that (250/12). But probably a bit more because there have been football time slots added since the original deal.

On top of that, we have the bowl game and NCAA tournament payments the conference receives.

So what are the actual profits per school from PACN? My guess is somewhere in the $4-6M range at best.
First, I was told there would be no math.

Second, I realize ESPN/Fox pays lots of money to show U$C, UCLA, Oregon and Stanford Games, but they were doing that before the P12N existed.

As far as Buff fans are concerned, the P12N is the only place broadcasting CU games.
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
First, I was told there would be no math.

Second, I realize ESPN/Fox pays lots of money to show U$C, UCLA, Oregon and Stanford Games, but they were doing that before the P12N existed.

As far as Buff fans are concerned, the P12N is the only place broadcasting CU games.
It was a record deal with ESPN/Fox when signed. That's not the issue with Pac-12 revenues.
 
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