Go ski mofo, lol jk.
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Reflections on the Jon Embree Era
- Thread starter Buffnik
- Start date
I spoke to one of the GAs at CSU after they beat CU in 2012 (Embree's last year). He told me that McElwain told his coaching staff, after the game, that Kentucky (worst team in the SEC) would have beat CU by 30+ due to the utter incompetence of our coaching staff's in-game management, play calling, strategy, etc. He said CU had more talent than CSU did that year and CSU had no business winning that game, but CU was completely out coached. It was one of the most embarrassing things I've heard about this program and I knew, at that point, Embree wasn't making it out of 2012.
Well, these facilities should go a long way in keeping us competitive in the Pac 12 in terms of "sex-appeal" for recruits on Official Visits (no pun intended). That's honestly the biggest foundation piece we could have hoped for, IMO.
The next piece is consistent recruiting. They don't all have to be 4-5* recruits, but they all need to be true, P5 recruits and not borderline guys that should probably be playing in the MW/WAC. To get to that point, though, requires on-field results. Period. This coaching staff has to find a way to turn the progress we saw in 2014 into Ws on the field and get CU's reputation back to, at least, a respectable level. Once that happens and CU is winning 5-6 games/year, minimum, they should start winning more recruiting battles against the likes of Oregon State, TTU, Utah, etc.
As soon as we reach that level of respectability and are no longer a national punch line for futility, recruits and coaches will take notice, and Boulder can become a destination spot (again) to land DCs like Durkin/Gibbs or HCs like Butch Jones.
Deleted member 807
Guest
It doesn't take a GA at CSU or Coach Sparkles to figure that one out. The meltdown on Allbuffs was epic.
Then there was the 35 point Fresno State 1st Qtr. [emoji67][emoji379]
Ha, yeah I'm not saying it wasn't already a popular opinion among Buff fans, but that was the turning point for me and the moment I checked out of the "Embree camp".
Holy crap. I had totally blocked the Fresno game from my memory... Then I recalled Sacramento St... What a **** year that was, never thought the season would end.
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bigbang2
blindslighted
C-
Good with the players, a good leader. The problem was he hired his friends to important posts. Trusted his friends too much. Only got one full year to recruit. In his second year lost a lot of upperclassmen to graduation and attrition. Was forced to play guys before they were ready. Did a reasonable good job in recruiting, getting guys like Nelson Spruce, Josh Topou, Greg Henderson, Sefo, Crawley, Wright, Chris Powell, George Frazier and etc. Spruce was a late addition after he was hired. Nik is right, there are some racial elements involved. The decision to fire him was quick. I just hope fences can be mended and he can be more active in the program again in the future.
Good with the players, a good leader. The problem was he hired his friends to important posts. Trusted his friends too much. Only got one full year to recruit. In his second year lost a lot of upperclassmen to graduation and attrition. Was forced to play guys before they were ready. Did a reasonable good job in recruiting, getting guys like Nelson Spruce, Josh Topou, Greg Henderson, Sefo, Crawley, Wright, Chris Powell, George Frazier and etc. Spruce was a late addition after he was hired. Nik is right, there are some racial elements involved. The decision to fire him was quick. I just hope fences can be mended and he can be more active in the program again in the future.
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You are dumb argument
A C- means slightly below average. Granted, you have to curve the scale a bit for his grade because of the condition of the program when he arrived, but he was nowhere near average. At most, I will give him a D-.
slystone
Well-Known Member
as undefeated mentions above..the CSU game that year was a royal cluster f+_& -- there was constant bickering and screaming on the headphones between embo and EB--so much so that the 4th and 5th quarterbacks who were to be relaying the plays to the buff huddle took off the headsets and walked away. the players were acutely aware of this..Same thing with the Sac St game..up 14-0 very early in the 2nd period and the wheels fell off..very interesting collection of coaches as individuals..but horsecrap as a staff..no cohesiveness or shared vision. previous coach mac overstepped his boundaries on the whole process - a couple of other things from that era severely hurt the buffs as time went on..The OL class consisting of MTM, Danno and Bryce didn't pan out...MTM was done after one year due to botched knee surgeries, Bryce had well documented substance abuse issues and danno had bad lower back issues..on top of that, the squad didn't have a front line QB after Ty Hansen was finished..JWebb and CWood were pathetic--also..the buffs didn't have a front line RB after speedy was finished..speedy was unbelievable at being patient, setting up his blockers and reading blocks..great on the cutbacks also...the next year, powell stepped in...in fairness to him..he was an overweight fullback being asked to tote the rock in the pac 12..CU hasn't had a tight end since the 2011 season either.
pcbuff
Well-Known Member
. Reminds me a lot of a loss at the start of this season. Really inexcusable. CSU seems to be showing us how to run a football program over the last couple years. How long did it take their new coach tovhir his coordinators?
If I recall Albino was constantly harassing the AD about how much McCartneys assistants were making. RN, mean time, turned Kordell from erratic to MVP and he looked like the next coming of Steve Spurrier. At $400k RN was a cheap hire (wasn't BM making $1mil a season when he retired) and Simmons was not that exciting of a hire by comparison. Albino had a similar track record of slashing and cutting on the academia side of things. I recall a couple of popular up and coming professors not being renewed.
At anyrate hindsight is always 20/20 and both coaches petered out. Fortunately RN didn't do the kind of damage to CU that he did to UDub.
Its a shame that there haven't been more successful coaches off of McCartney's tree. I think Les Miles is the top guy. Followed by Barnett. After that DiNardo, Tepper, and Neuheisel.
Bingo.
I agree with BnG that Embree has some recruiting successes. BnG also has criticized MM for the staff he hired. Im sure he's criticized Embree in the someway somewhere. Embree screwed the pouch with his staff. Everyone could see his game management was awful. He discriminated against Hawkins players. Ran his practices like NFL practices. Ive never seen teams with quit in their eyes like I did in Embrees 2nd year.
Refusing to shakeup the staff and bring in serious coordinators was what probably did him in. Embree would have gotten a couple more years IF he had done that.
What I want to know is who were we targeting and didn't get before we settled on Embree.
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aren't they doing this without an Ad??
Something tells me it is a lot easier to run a MWC program than a Pac 12 program. Just a hunch though.
Something tells me you never understand any points people are trying to make.
Jim Caldwell should be mentioned among that coaching tree. He didn't have much success at Wake Forest as a HC (looked like a failure until a good 1999 season, which made the timing one year too late for when CU was making the Neuheisel replacement decision). In the pros, I hadn't thought a lot of him because I'd looked at him as a guy who just attached himself to Peyton-in-his-prime coattails and that any QB Coach/OC and then HC would have looked pretty damn good in that spot. But the season he just had as Detroit's HC turned me around on him (plus he turned Flacco around and won in Baltimore). Timing again, Caldwell may have listened when he was an OC at the time Hawkins was hired, there was no chance when Embree was hired since Caldwell was coming off a Super Bowl title as the HC in Indy, and there may have been an opportunity to interview at the time Embree was fired over Caldwell taking the QB/OC job at Baltimore in 2012.
Something tells me that he's just full of ****.
Good point. I wasn't aware of his connection to McCartney.
Which is? They had two good seasons with Sparkles. During that time they also had a AD who ran his mouth everywhere and wasn't realistic. What point was he trying to make? That we ****ed up hiring Embree?
Just trying to be like you
I agree with 'tini. pcbuff is comparing apples to oranges.
pcbuff
Well-Known Member
Am I? Here are my impressions. Coaching is like many other professions in that networking matters. Some guys are good and some not as strong. Their new coach reached out to his network and quickly filled his coordinator. Our guys have not been able to do that dispite a deeper bucket of money and arguably more prestigious position. I don't want to debate Tini. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised by a good hire.
So the quickness of a hire is how you are grading this?
pcbuff
Well-Known Member
Yes.
I give up, you are just smarter and more experienced than me.
I'm not looking at the passage of the dead period, the upcoming national signing day, the lack of Pac recruiting chops and the indictment of our current players and staff that a slow hire portrays.
I am reminded of Whittingham's filling his OC a couple years ago with his young QB coach on national signing day. That left a fan base wondering if he had the coaching tree to fill out a staff. That grew into the AD not giving the assistants long term contracts that led to defections from the current staff. This was compounded by the assistants hating the most recent OC, who replaced the CO OC's that were an effort to clean up the original hire of someone not ready for the job.
I've only seen two coaching positions filled in person. Both of those were friends sitting down together and saying I want you to do X for me. Here is why I think it makes sense for you and for me. Have your agent call me. While both of those were position coaches, the conversation took 15 minutes. One over pizza at lunch and one over beers after a day coaching at a camp. For some reason, our guy hasn't been able to pull this off in that fashion.
You are right. We are going to kick ass on the entire world, and this slow hire is how Mac and his AD planned it. CU is big time and bowl bound baby!! Any evidence to the contrary is just static to be ignored!!
I give up, you are just smarter and more experienced than me.
I'm not looking at the passage of the dead period, the upcoming national signing day, the lack of Pac recruiting chops and the indictment of our current players and staff that a slow hire portrays.
I am reminded of Whittingham's filling his OC a couple years ago with his young QB coach on national signing day. That left a fan base wondering if he had the coaching tree to fill out a staff. That grew into the AD not giving the assistants long term contracts that led to defections from the current staff. This was compounded by the assistants hating the most recent OC, who replaced the CO OC's that were an effort to clean up the original hire of someone not ready for the job.
I've only seen two coaching positions filled in person. Both of those were friends sitting down together and saying I want you to do X for me. Here is why I think it makes sense for you and for me. Have your agent call me. While both of those were position coaches, the conversation took 15 minutes. One over pizza at lunch and one over beers after a day coaching at a camp. For some reason, our guy hasn't been able to pull this off in that fashion.
You are right. We are going to kick ass on the entire world, and this slow hire is how Mac and his AD planned it. CU is big time and bowl bound baby!! Any evidence to the contrary is just static to be ignored!!
bigbang2
blindslighted
Mike Bohn didn't have the right vision for the football program. Should have been fired after Dan Hawkins was let go. If you are going to hire John Embree, a first time coach. How can you hire two first time coordinators to work with him. A strong AD would have recommended staff changes. It was also difficult to get guys enrolled.
Fired by the niners.
www.ninersnation.com
49ers fire assistant head coach and tight ends coach Jon Embree
Embree also served as the tight ends coach and helped develop
www.ninersnation.com
Fired by the niners.
49ers fire assistant head coach and tight ends coach Jon Embree
Embree also served as the tight ends coach and helped develop
