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Sandusky update (more evidence against Joe P)

For the record, I believe PSU deserves the death penalty. I also believe that SMU did too. Covering up the murder of the 5 hookers was inexcusable.

I know you are kidding about the hookers (we think) but remember that SMU kept right on cheating as the NCAA was applying sanctions to them. Taking away schollies and bowls does very little to those who think they are above the law. PSU needs something that will shock them into rebuilding the right way and will shock the rest of college sports into not risking this kind of cover up in the future.

At this point it isn't even about Sandusky, Paterno, the PSU administrators or governing board. It is about sending a message to the victims that they mean more than somebodies tailgate party and more importantly to those who would enable future criminal scum that it isn't worth it. This one already happened. Nothing that anyone can do is going to take that away from those victims. It is all about making sure that something like this doesn't happen again and get covered up and enabled.
 
I'm starting to come around to the idea that PSU should shut down it's football program for a couple years. If nothing else, it sends a message to the victims that they admit they were wrong and are truly sorry for what happened. Just saying it isn't enough. Actions are what is needed here.
 
I can't help but wonder when the other shoe will drop in Lincoln over how Dr. Tom ran the Cornhusker program back then.
 
I'm starting to come around to the idea that PSU should shut down it's football program for a couple years. If nothing else, it sends a message to the victims that they admit they were wrong and are truly sorry for what happened. Just saying it isn't enough. Actions are what is needed here.

I agree a powerful message needs to be sent.

I wonder if Penn State will change their uniforms as well? Perhaps add a PSU logo to the helmets as well.
 
Would you like to expound on this?

It's only a matter of time before Dr. Tom's training table is exposed.

imagejpeg


Edit: I'm on my phone, so you'll just have to imagine how hard you would have laughed at a pic of Christopher Reeve gorging on dead fetuses for the stem cells.
 
Sooo!

Penn State should get to keep on selling tickets to football games, keep on recieving a share of B10 media revenue, keep on bringing big donors to suites in Beaver Stadium to encourage them to contribute more cash, keep on selling football jerseys and other game momentos. In other words other than being on TV and maybe some recruiting sanctions keep on running business as usuall bringing in millions of dollars.

What is the message in this to out schools facing a similar situation in the future. Keep your mouth shut and if you get caught in the future you get to keep the money coming in with a slap on the wrist.

For the sake of the kids, for the sake of all the future victims, PSU needs to be hammered. PSU needs to know what it means to have no football game to go to on Saturday, and no football revenue as a result of it.

This isn't about vengance, this is about sending a message loud and clear. The lives of innocent victims are much more important the the "reputation" of your sacred football program (or basketball, or marching band.) Do the right thing at the right time and it blows over. Cover it up and you pay for it, enough to make it not worth considering sacrificing the victims. If they aren't going to make the moral decision, make the business decision and turn in the criminals.
If the NCAA had any backbone they could come up with something to shut down Penn State or just severely punish them, but they are completely spineless. If you are a big enough athletic program, you can do whatever the #^ck you want. USC for example hasn't missed a step. The only thing is they didn't get to play in a bowl game last year - big *****.
 
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Feds should step in and ban anyone under 18 from campus until PSU has implemented changes that can be reviewed in 9 months.
 
Feds should step in and ban anyone under 18 from campus until PSU has implemented changes that can be reviewed in 9 months.

I'd be very surprised if the Feds don't get involved at some point ... and they would have a lot of leverage. Not even considering the whole "taking minors over state lines for immoral purposes" (the Mann Act) violations ... but the Clery Act violations (failure to report crimes committed on campus) could have grave funding implications for PSU.

Hell ... it's even mentioned in at least one email that shows that the top administrators were concerned about it when they decided not to report the 2001 incident.
 
Feds should step in and ban anyone under 18 from campus until PSU has implemented changes that can be reviewed in 9 months.

Any form of systematic sexual harrasment regardless of the gender harrassed is a violation of Title IX. If PSU is found to have allowed an environment of sexual harrassment the government could make them inneligible to recieve any federal funding including research dollars and federal financial aid.

I wouldn't want to see this happen because there are a lot of students and their families who rely on federal aid to make an eduction possible. I am sure that PSU also has a number of important and significant research projects ongoing or planned that would be disrupted if the research funding was cut.

Penn State needs a major wake-up call to make the changes that need to happen and to serve as a warning to others who might consider hiding something similar to what Penn State did but the title nine penalties would be put on those who weren't responsible, not the ones who were.
 
Any form of systematic sexual harrasment regardless of the gender harrassed is a violation of Title IX. If PSU is found to have allowed an environment of sexual harrassment the government could make them inneligible to recieve any federal funding including research dollars and federal financial aid.

I wouldn't want to see this happen because there are a lot of students and their families who rely on federal aid to make an eduction possible. I am sure that PSU also has a number of important and significant research projects ongoing or planned that would be disrupted if the research funding was cut.

Penn State needs a major wake-up call to make the changes that need to happen and to serve as a warning to others who might consider hiding something similar to what Penn State did but the title nine penalties would be put on those who weren't responsible, not the ones who were.

This is why they need to shut down the program for a couple of years. I think this would show that they are not going to put football before safety and integrity.
 
Don't take this the wrong way, Mtn (although it may be hard not to) ... but you sound an awful lot like Mary Keenan and Baine Kerr talking about CU football when you make statements like that. And replace "Saint JoePa" with "Coach Barnett" and you have the allegations that were made against us back then.

I'm not minimizing the horror and utter depravity of what happened in State College ... but assuming that everone associated in any way with PSU was "part of the culture" or were rioting when JoPa was fired is painting with far too broad a brush IMHO, and exactly what we objected to several years ago.
YMSSR, agreed.
 
This is a powerful article ... and will give further ammunition to those who want to shut the program down. I may be becoming one of them.


Some choice excerpts:


What has not been discussed in detail before now is the victim's painful journey — from accuser to crucial prosecution witness — in one of the most damaging sports scandals in U.S. history. This account was provided to USA TODAY in interviews with the victim's psychologist, Michael Gillum, who in addition to counseling the victim, sat in on key police interviews and accompanied the victim to secret state grand jury sessions. He described his client's decision to step forward, an exhaustive schedule of police interviews and three anxious appearances before the grand jury. All of it a prelude to taking the witness stand in a packed courtroom just yards from the man who abused him.

Gillum's account is not disputed by Pennsylvania authorities and is supported by courtroom testimony, which outline similarly wrenching decisions by the other seven known victims to tell their stories in an open courtroom. It is USA TODAY's policy not to name the victims of sexual abuse. An attorney representing the victim declined to allow him to be interviewed. Gillum, who spoke with his client's knowledge, said that he hoped that by relating his experience other victims of abuse would be encouraged to report it, regardless of the consequences.

"From the first time we met," Gillum said, "he was fearful that he would be killed. He believed that Jerry Sandusky could have him killed."
There is no evidence that Sandusky made such a threat, but Gillum said the boy's extreme fear, along with anonymous threats delivered by telephone and letter after his name was linked to the investigation, set in motion elaborate plans by Clinton County, Pa., youth authorities to relocate the victim and his mother if their safety was put at risk.


**********************************************************************************

High-profile child sex abuse scandals at Penn State, the Catholic Church and the Boy Scouts of America represent evidence of the pervasive nature of abuse, and the victims' accounts reveal that public attention to such cases — no matter how intense — often is not enough to overcome the paralyzing fear and humiliation that, for many, result in their collective silence.

On the same day that the Sandusky verdict was delivered, June 22, Philadelphia Monsignor William Lynn was convicted of child endangerment, the first Catholic Church official found guilty of covering up past abuses by priests under his direction.

Earlier last month, the Oregon Supreme Court approved the release of thousands of pages in files compiled by the Boy Scouts related to suspected child abusers in its ranks. The files came to light as part of a 2010 lawsuit in which a jury found that the group failed to protect children from an abusive assistant scoutmaster, Timur Dykes, dating to the 1980s.


"There is shame, fear, even guilt that they (the victims) may have allowed something like this to happen," said Curtis St. John, a spokesman for MaleSurvivor, a national advocacy group for sex abuse victims.

*************************************************************************************



Gillum doesn't have to consult a file to recall the day when a shaken 14-year-old boy and his angry mother arrived at his nondescript Main Street office.

It was Nov. 20, 2008, and his two visitors had come straight from a disturbing meeting at a local high school where the boy told a counselor that Sandusky, then a volunteer football coach at the school, had engaged in unspecific inappropriate conduct with him.
The boy's mother had arranged the meeting with the counselor, she told the jury at Sandusky's trial, after her son began asking questions about how to access information about sexual abuse online.

Angered that school officials cautioned her against going immediately to authorities with information about such a prominent figure, the mother testified that she went directly to the Clinton County Children and Youth Social Services office.

Jennifer Sobjak, the office's assistant director, said the boy and his mother showed up with no advance notice. An initial interview with a female staffer proved uncomfortable and halting, Sobjak said, before the boy was referred to Gillum's second-floor office, partially decorated in Crayon images created by his daughter and some young clients.

"He was so anxious, he was shaking," Gillum now recalls.

In the two hours that followed, the psychologist said, the boy provided enough information — incidents of fondling, kissing and other inappropriate contact — that "indicated Jerry Sandusky as a child sex abuser."

The conclusion triggered a series of notifications and telephone calls to the Pennsylvania State Police, to Sandusky's charity for troubled children, known as The Second Mile, and to the boy's high school, where officials were notified of the claims against Sandusky.
The county report resulted in Sandusky's required separation from the school pending the resolution of the allegations.
The public backlash, Gillum said, was almost immediate and jarring. Within weeks, the boy's mother reported to state investigators that she was confronted in a Lock Haven business by an unhappy local resident who had learned that her son had been linked to the allegations triggering Sandusky's removal as a volunteer.

The child's identity spread rapidly through the community, the psychologist said, making him and his mother the target of harassment — and ultimately threats of harm — by locals upset that Sandusky had been dismissed from the school.
School officials did not respond to requests for comment.

From his initial meetings with the boy, Gillum said, it became clear, based on the victim's fear and the community's anger, that extraordinary steps were needed to protect him and his mother.

"We started putting a (witness) relocation plan together almost from the first week," Gillum said, adding that an undisclosed sum of county money was dedicated to the effort. "There was huge fear."
 
I was one that cautioned against rushing to judgment based on what we all went through with the rape scandal. However, reading that they had to have those witness relocation plans due to the threat by PSU fans shows the problem isn't limited to just the school & its athlethic department but its fans.

That mother is a hero for reporting right away but at the same time, those Penn State adminstration people could have easily put a stop to all of this.

Extraordinary things mean extraordinary measures should be taken such as shutting down the football program.

If Penn State loses its federal funding, I believe it will have an impact on its Big Ten membership.
 
This whole PSU mess is going to go down in History as one of the all time greatest screw ups. I keep saying to myself, "What were they thinking?"

There were so many opportunities to take action and none were taken. I wonder if Curley or Schultz will every come clean about what really went on during that time.

Paterno's reputation will never recover.
 
"anonymous threats delivered by telephone and letter after [the victims] name was linked to the investigation"

Wow. That's a systemic cultural problem and they need the Death Penalty for multiple years.
 
"anonymous threats delivered by telephone and letter after [the victims] name was linked to the investigation"

Wow. That's a systemic cultural problem and they need the Death Penalty for multiple years.

this can be just a single bad person. I wouldn't start judging the whole fan bases for what can be just a single's persons actions.
 

Choice. This fan's "truth" is based more on reality than a former FBI chief's independent investigation. Right.
"apparently you joined the rats jumping ship based on unsubstantiated conclusions of the 6 million dollar "did we say what you wanted boss" report from the not so Freeh shysters; shame on you, you don't deserve the support of the Nittany Nation; if you don't want the truth then just go away, don't change colors"
 
And that is exactly why the program needs to be shut down.

I have to agree with you here. The program needs to be shut down for no other reason than to make people understand that Sandusky AND PSU AND Paterno AND a whole bunch of other people did a very bad thing. As long as there are people defending the guy, there are people who just don't get how awful this whole thing is.
 

Where are the people who earlier in this thread were saying that there were very few people who still sided with Paterno.

Some of these people will never change their minds, they will go to their graves believing that JoePa was innocent and that Penn State was blameless and persecuted in this matter.

These people need something major like no football games to follow to shake them up. They still won't believe that their beloved heros did anything wrong but it will send a message to future schools who may find themselves with the question of report or not.
 
I think I mentioned before that my dad played/rodethebench for Joe Pa and I've always liked Penn State. I even came to his defense at the beginning of this before this evidence came out. Now I can't find anything in me to defend him. These people are disgusting and making Penn State fans look really really bad.
 
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