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Sandusky update (more evidence against Joe P)

leftybuff said:
Well, good luck with that. Given the monumental eff ups and cowardly, rubber backboned failure to follow any reasonable procedures which gave rise to this, I highly doubt Erickson signed anything without a full legal review and assurances that his *** would not be hanging on the breeze like the enabler Spanier's was.

I know you know people, but this looks like an adult version of the lying and kicking your feet in the air childish tantrum.

On another note, I chuckle at the Paterno families desire to : "get to the truth". Maybe they can join forces wiht OJ while he looks for the real killers.....
Click to expand...

I agree with you about Erickson. He MUST have run it by enough Board Members to know he had approval. He couldn't have been that stupid. Maybe he didn't run it by the ardent Joe supporters because he knew it was a lost cause with them.

Erickson has made public statements that he wanted to deemphasize college football and this accomplishes that goal. I still can't figure out why Dan Hawkins wasn't interviewed for the job though. That would be proof of Erickson's intent.
 
MtnBuff said:
LOL. Big difference is that I think the Paterno family actually believes that Joe was innocent.

The attitude of denial is exactly why PSU needed a major wake up call in the form of punishment. If any of the Trustees thought they were going to get off easier they were high or ignorant while looking through their blue and white glasses.
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Jay Paterno needs to have a slice of STFU Pie.
 
One thing that is annoying me about the diehard PSU fans is that 1) They think this is all about Joe Paterno 2) That because it is about Joe Paterno, it means that everyone is out to tear down Joe Paterno and 3) That there is some conspiracy to tear down PSU overall


Why would the NCAA want to do this?
 
"Winning without honor isn't winning at all," said Joe Paterno. Seems a shame to have three decades of Sandusky's "wins" included in there!

Sandusky is proven correct after all - his win record is still unaffected.

And Paterno's statue still has the caption of "This is the finger that Jerry used FIRST".
 
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dio said:
One thing that is annoying me about the diehard PSU fans is that 1) They think this is all about Joe Paterno 2) That because it is about Joe Paterno, it means that everyone is out to tear down Joe Paterno and 3) That there is some conspiracy to tear down PSU overall


Why would the NCAA want to do this?
Click to expand...

Sometimes athletics are allowed to get out of hand. SMU, Miami, PSU, and others have fallen into this trap. I know a prof thats at CU that worked at PSU for a couple of years on an interim basis and he is not all surprised by what PSU allowed to happen to itself. The academics are going to crush the AD.
 
Im not sure what the hell u call what has been happening at Penn St, totally different from anything ive seen. Matter of fact, its kinda unfair to put Smu, usc, and others into penn st category. I mean the others were paying players while the penn st admin. was failing at basic human decency and hiding it. Wasnt talking to you Miami fwiw, Id just put Penn St into their own category.
 
BuffLuKe said:
Im not sure what the hell u call what has been happening at Penn St, totally different from anything ive seen. Matter of fact, its kinda unfair to put Smu, usc, and others into penn st category. I mean the others were paying players while the penn st admin. was failing at basic human decency and hiding it. Wasnt talking to you Miami fwiw, Id just put Penn St into their own category.
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Good call, the only kind of comparables are Miami and Baylor BB where the school was covering up crimes against people. Maybe kNU as well when Osborne protected Phillips after he drug a girl down a staircase by the hair but there was no real follow-up in that case. Also when Osborne got Christia Peters sex assault charges reduced then delayed any legal action on them for three years.
 
Penn St grad who works down the hall is having a complete meltdown in a conversation with the guy next to me. Apparently, none of the penalties were warrated and this was a conspiracy by some football hating liberal. Also, JoePa made a single simple mistake, and this sort of thing probably happens at every school. He asked me if I followed it, and I left the room to make a phone call. No point in engaging someone that emotional in the office. Delusional comments from an otherwise rational mild-mannered engineer.....
 
I don't know if this has been posted before - forgive me if it has. Here is an OTL episode from 2008 that shows Paterno in an unflattering light.

[video=youtube_share;Xe6ykE3VyiU]http://youtu.be/Xe6ykE3VyiU[/video]
 
BlackNGold said:
I don't know if this has been posted before - forgive me if it has. Here is an OTL episode from 2008 that shows Paterno in an unflattering light.

[video=youtube_share;Xe6ykE3VyiU]http://youtu.be/Xe6ykE3VyiU[/video]
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But, but, but, it can't be true. Joe would never compromise his values. He wins with integrity and runs a program that does everything right.

This is all a witch hunt and it isn't fair to penalize Penn State.

 
MtnBuff said:
Good call, the only kind of comparables are Miami and Baylor BB where the school was covering up crimes against people. Maybe kNU as well when Osborne protected Phillips after he drug a girl down a staircase by the hair but there was no real follow-up in that case. Also when Osborne got Christia Peters sex assault charges reduced then delayed any legal action on them for three years.
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I have a friend of mine (a Lincoln native) that worked as a rape crisis counselor in Lincoln for a few years after undergrad. She told me of an incident where a rape involving a player was reported to their Hotline - they called the police for the victim, then got in the car and drove to the victim's house. Tom Osborne was there before she arrived; and before an officer showed up. Someone at the police dept evidently tipped off Dr Tom and he was already talking to the victim. Charges were never pressed.

Needless to say that's a 3d party story; but believable at nearly any institution where sports 'matter' to the community. There's a dirty undercurrent in a lot of places, IMO; and even the 'good guys' don't want to be the ones to bring down the local team. I'd like to believe that Embree wouldn't play it like that, but there's so much at stake in D1 athletics...
 
Maybe I should have put down penn st falls under the, let a pedophile operate for over a decade with closed eyes, category. That said, Baylor, Nebraska, Miami, Switzer's OU squads, and several others deserve mention. All the penn st folks crying foul should count their blessings. They werent gonna have football for several years had they not signed the decree.
 
The NCAA is an association that permits universities to join. If you piss them off, you are gone. I think PSU got off cheaply. I would have preferred to see the NCAA throw them out.

Re JoePa: He is guilty of aiding and abetting a criminal and after the testimony provided and the verdict in the criminal case, he is guilty of harboring a felon. PSU has no legs. JoePa will rot. **** him.
 
BuffLuKe said:
Im not sure what the hell u call what has been happening at Penn St, totally different from anything ive seen. Matter of fact, its kinda unfair to put Smu, usc, and others into penn st category. I mean the others were paying players while the penn st admin. was failing at basic human decency and hiding it. Wasnt talking to you Miami fwiw, Id just put Penn St into their own category.
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Agree. Fully.
 
fervorfactor said:
The NCAA is an association that permits universities to join. If you piss them off, you are gone. I think PSU got off cheaply. I would have preferred to see the NCAA throw them out.

Re JoePa: He is guilty of aiding and abetting a criminal and after the testimony provided and the verdict in the criminal case, he is guilty of harboring a felon. PSU has no legs. JoePa will rot. **** him.
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Only if the embalmer skimped on the formaldehyde....
 
I still think that the only way this makes sense is if there was more going on than a pedophile assistant coach getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

When the coverup goes all the way up to the university president and you also have a prosecutor shy away from the case, leave his office with all the evidence on a computer, and then have his car turn up at the bottom of a river (computer/evidence at the bottom)... I have a strong suspicion that Sandusky was all that he is convicted of in addition to having been a procurer for some powerful people. They are now playing "blame the dead guy" for who was actually making the decision to sweep this under the rug. I'll probably have to be a tinfoil wearing conspiracy theorist on this, though, because the university fell on its sword and they're trying to make it go away no matter the cost. Mark Madden's investigation into this will probably never get anywhere.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ycn-10407023
 
Buffnik said:
I still think that the only way this makes sense is if there was more going on than a pedophile assistant coach getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

When the coverup goes all the way up to the university president and you also have a prosecutor shy away from the case, leave his office with all the evidence on a computer, and then have his car turn up at the bottom of a river (computer/evidence at the bottom)... I have a strong suspicion that Sandusky was all that he is convicted of in addition to having been a procurer for some powerful people. They are now playing "blame the dead guy" for who was actually making the decision to sweep this under the rug. I'll probably have to be a tinfoil wearing conspiracy theorist on this, though, because the university fell on its sword and they're trying to make it go away no matter the cost. Mark Madden's investigation into this will probably never get anywhere.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ycn-10407023
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Nik, although there is no evidence that I can point to for it I just have a strong feeling that as ugly as this thing is already on the surface there is some much uglier stuff that we haven't seen yet and may not ever see.

Penn State accepted a punishment that is going to cost them $60 million in fines plus their bowl revenue for four years and likely longer due to the recruiting and roster limits they will have. They also accepted what will likely result in them declining significantly in wins which normally results in lower donations as well. This is in addition to the 10's of millions they will be paying out in civil suits which could reach $100 million by the time it is over.

There is a certain amount of appearance that they are happy to take what they get in return for an end to the digging which could go deeper. It will be interesting to see what eventually comes out, if anything.

They probably didn't have much of a choice but a lot of people at the top still took it without a lot of complaint.
 
I'm sure the NCAA would be happy to levy more penalties if more heinous crimes and coverups are discovered relating to the Athletic Department.
 
Buffnik said:
I still think that the only way this makes sense is if there was more going on than a pedophile assistant coach getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

When the coverup goes all the way up to the university president and you also have a prosecutor shy away from the case, leave his office with all the evidence on a computer, and then have his car turn up at the bottom of a river (computer/evidence at the bottom)... I have a strong suspicion that Sandusky was all that he is convicted of in addition to having been a procurer for some powerful people. They are now playing "blame the dead guy" for who was actually making the decision to sweep this under the rug. I'll probably have to be a tinfoil wearing conspiracy theorist on this, though, because the university fell on its sword and they're trying to make it go away no matter the cost. Mark Madden's investigation into this will probably never get anywhere.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ycn-10407023
Click to expand...

How could that possibly be kept quiet? If true, there are lots of boys involved and many will want to cleanse the memory by coming forward, others may just want the $$$ and will come forward. I don't think any amount of maneuvering by the PSU administration could prevent any of that. Even a huge slush fund to pay a lot of people off will manage the latter, but not the former group.
 
zbuff said:
How could that possibly be kept quiet? If true, there are lots of boys involved and many will want to cleanse the memory by coming forward, others may just want the $$$ and will come forward. I don't think any amount of maneuvering by the PSU administration could prevent any of that. Even a huge slush fund to pay a lot of people off will manage the latter, but not the former group.
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Agree with you but on the other hand how could a former assistant coach with campus privledges be busy raping multiple boys on the campus of one of the most prominent schools in the country with the knowledge of the HC and top administrators and it not come out until now.

I don't know what it is going to look like but I still have a feeling that this goes deeper than what we have seen. Now that the cat is out of the bag it will be hard for them to control it as facts start to appear in court procedeings and as plaintiffs attorneys have their investigators digging around. With the amount of money that is at stake it will be very hard to keep these people from sifting through the ashes and finding what is left behind but it may take significant time to do it.

If it does turn out that it goes much deeper the nightmare for PSU is going to last a lot longer. It may also end up rocking state politics in PA significantly as well. As ugly as this thing is just being associated with it could be enough to end careers of prominent people. Many of these people have ties to the board of trustees of PSU, Second Mile, and/or are major boosters of PSU so making the connections won't be that difficult. It is hard to believe that a number of these people didn't at least know something if not participate actively in the cover-up.
 
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I had heard about the links between Franklin S & L, and some tangential link to PSU. You ought to read The Franklin Cover-Up by John DeCamp. I have always wondered about these stories that talk of scandal, and for me, the litmus test is will you name names. DeCamp does and has thrown down the gauntlet...to my knowledge nobody has taken him on because he as the goods. Gary Caridori, in my opinion, was a casualty of the attempts to cover up for the crimes of some wealthy and connected people. His 8 year old son was collateral damage and paid with his life too. If we knew half of what are supposed leaders did/do, I am pretty sure we would be sick.
 
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Im not a conspiracy guy but I wouldnt put anything past what went on already. I saw the pres talking last night and he didnt answer how I thought he would. However, Penn St knew damn well they better take the sanctions. I think the penalties were gonna be huge, they are already big.
 
Buffnik said:
I still think that the only way this makes sense is if there was more going on than a pedophile assistant coach getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

When the coverup goes all the way up to the university president and you also have a prosecutor shy away from the case, leave his office with all the evidence on a computer, and then have his car turn up at the bottom of a river (computer/evidence at the bottom)... I have a strong suspicion that Sandusky was all that he is convicted of in addition to having been a procurer for some powerful people. They are now playing "blame the dead guy" for who was actually making the decision to sweep this under the rug. I'll probably have to be a tinfoil wearing conspiracy theorist on this, though, because the university fell on its sword and they're trying to make it go away no matter the cost. Mark Madden's investigation into this will probably never get anywhere.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ycn-10407023
Click to expand...

Sandusky would've flipped like a landed trout if he had someone to rat on, he's not what we call around here "a stand up guy."
 
BuffsNYC said:
Sandusky would've flipped like a landed trout if he had someone to rat on, he's not what we call around here "a stand up guy."
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Sandusky could have very easily been told, "Look, you are spending the rest of your life, no matter how long or short it is, behind bars. Keep your mouth shut and you spend it in a protected environment with other sex offenders. Run your mouth and the guys in general population will be shoving broomsticks up you so far your tonsils will be bruised."

If even part of what is in the article Nik linked is true you are talking about people who have a lot to lose, enough money and power to do what they have to to protect it, and no hesitatancy in any form about doing what they have to do to protect themselves.

Sandusky isn't a stand-up guy but he also isn't stupid. He knows how it could turn out for him if he mentions the wrong names in the wrong context.
 
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