Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by Jens1893, Oct 23, 2012.
Basketball is a different animal, Kentucky can make the Final Four almost every year starting 5 freshman. But I agree it's refreshing not to hear that excuse for a change.
I think UCLA had a younger offense than we do. Just sayin'.
Sure is, I just think it´s interesting to point out how differently the 2 most visible coaches the school conduct themselves. The successful one kills off excuses one-by-one whereas the unsuccessful one, well ... what does he do exactly?
Can someone cite where Embree has blamed youth?
No, but his supporters have.
What is Embree´s solution to this mess anyway? Has he ever said what he thinks goes wrong or manned up to maybe ****ing up himself in some cases? All I hear is "we gotta fix this!" while referring to his team as "Gus the kicking mule".
He hasn't. The reason he doesn't know what the problem is, is that his coaches suck and he can't see it.
Embree has consistently conducted himself honorably, avoiding excuses, accepting responsibility, and being incredibly honest & respectful to the fanbase.
I have a tremendous amount of respect for him as a man. That has actually grown over the past couple years even though I admired him a lot before he became HC.
My only real issue with Embree is that the team has sucked so historically badly.
Big difference with the ability of the players. Kentucky's starting 5 are the top recruits in the nation. We just flat out don't have the players.
Yeah, if our football team had 6 or 7 four/five star freshmen on each side of the ball, I think we'd be better. Even then, we'd get worked by the likes of SC and Oregon. Basketball is a game were individual talent can carry a team. Football relies more on the team concept. That takes more than the 10 or so weeks our feshmen have had to work together.
agree with you DBT not a supporter of EMBO but he took on one of the most complicated jobs in the BCS. CU had already hit the tanker when he took the job, he had less talent that was left by the other coaching regime, now as far as youth this 2012 class actually has a few kids i think will be good, and no i am not blaming youth but where is our Sr leader that other teams like UCLA have from my account we dont have any so i kind of do blame youth but it is our offensive and defensive play-calling to blame.
Isn´t that why you have coaches?
Holy run on sentence
don't start with the excuses for Embree. No doubt he had a tough situation, but do you think Sacramento State is a better situation, do you think it is easier for them to pull talent there and then play BCS teams on the road? The staff recruiting has been sub-par and the coaching is laughable.
I like the guy, think he's a real solid man, much respect for him in that regard. That said, this is a bottomline job. It's all about those Ws or its supposed to be. Young or not, no excuse for this season so far. I wish like hell that Embree could right the ship, I just don't see it. The article about guys not watching enough film is also a coaching issue imho. These guys need to be shown how to watch and breakdown film. I'm willing to bet a lot of these younger guys haven't had to do much of that. There's more to it than just watching a replay of the game.
This is exactly how I feel. It's one thing to say the coaching isn't good enough. What I don't like is people suggesting that Embree is making excuses when he's not.
Our freshman class was ranked in the 30 to 35 range. I know a lot of that was because of shear numbers. Nevertheless I think it is kind of unfair to call recruiting "sub-par."
First class well below par
Second class above par
Third class well below par
I could be completely wrong (everybody is at least once, this may be my time) but as hard as he is trying and as sincerely as he wants to win, I don't see this team buying what Embree is selling. I don't have a problem with getting blown out by SC or Oregon at this time but not showing up for Fresno after losing to one of the worst teams in FBS football followed by losing to a mediocre FCS school. I'm just not seeing the progress.
Way to cherry pick a class. If you had to average his recruits or look at his body of work as a whole how would you rate it?
Well, I think even his first class was decent considering he came in 6 weeks before LOI day. The present class is underwhelming. I'm just trying to be fair rather than knee jerk.
Three classes is not really knee jerk. I know this class isn't over but it was pretty full. I guess if our best players leave we can replace them with five star players.
I actually have no issue with Embree or others pointing out the youth on this team. Without strong leadership from upperclassmen, a young team will struggle.
The issue becomes when our youth looks worse than the youth on opposing teams. Sure, we have some freshmen with potential. But how high is the ceiling? I see some that have all-conference potential, but no more than a handful. Without more difference makers (and yes, you can spot these players early on in their career), this program is going nowhere.
Problem is, we are inundated with youth, espeically on defense. We don't have the veteran presence to protect the young guys. They are out on an island.
I picked the Buffs to win 3 games (CSU and Sac State in close wins, and one other home game near the end).
I do not believe that our talent level is as good as CSU or Sac State in the skilled athlete area. We are lacking athletes, especially on offense. We have less athletes than any team I see on TV, including teams like Nevada, Wyoming, etc. We have a total of one fast WR and he is a true freshman.
Against USC, the offense kept shooting itself and we tackled poorly on defense. We were out of position often. We had a myriad of True Freshmen on the field (several times there were 4 at once time). The announcers made a big deal that Williams was starting for USC on the DL as a true frosh and that they were so decimated that they had to use Townsend (only a RS Frosh) in relief. Both were 4-star highly recruited guys.
We have run guys with that level of experience out there (classes of 2011/2012) as follows:
Crawley 464 plays
Tupou 247 plays
Daigh 147 plays
Mosely 235 plays
Henderson 308 plays
Greer 69 plays
Wright 145 plays
Parker 120 plays
Solis 82 plays
Washington 111 plays
Kafovalu 90 plays (started and played most of the game at DT vs. USC)
Hall 67 plays (so a lot of time at CB vs USC)
Henington 80 plays
That's on DEFENSE only. Nobody is doing that at that rate
So my point?
1. This team is hugely under-talented on offense. We need 4 more WR's who can catch and run. That would make everyone look better, including the defense who is on the field way too much.
2. This team is ridiculously young
3. Many of these young guys are going to be some good players who will win games at CU, if the coaching allows them to.
4. Upperclass leadership (especially on defense) is void. It is non-existent. Maybe not their fault. It's embedded in them I believe.
5. Embree mismanaged expectations by getting the fanbase excited about 6 wins. I have no problem with that being an internal goal. But it was a stretch goal from the beginning. ASU, AZ and UCLA were never patsies. They are loaded with 5 classes of talent.
I expected ugly, mistake-prone wins vs CSU and Sac State. If our defense played half good, we'd have gotten that. We certainly saw a lot of mistakes such as dropped punts, etc. We could easily have started 2-0 with ugly wins. Both those games were lost due to mistakes and an inability of the defense to "do their job". Guys like Crawley and Mosely were confused beyond belief.
Fresno State was never a win in my book, but I have no explanation other than leadership, and coaching for what happened that day. I think losing at home to Sac State deflated the team, and the upperclass guys fell into a funk. Deep Psychological funk. Serious about this. They are TOO scarred by the past.
Can Greg Brown really be this bad? We can't tackle and we can't get into position? We were better down the stretch last year once we got Orms on the field at corner and didn't have to play Espy or JJ there. It looks really bad. Is Cabral this bad? No chance. His guys are not good right now, but it's not the LB coach.
But then I look at Boise State, one of the most prolific offenses in history in 2012. Peterson is an absolute offensive genius, but they are struggling:
2011: 481 yards per game total offense; 44.2 points per game
2012: 374 yards per game total offense; 26.1 points per game
This is a huge falloff. Did Peterson lose the magic or did he lose magical skilled athletes? I'd bet the latter. Same with Cabral, only psychological issues are probably more at fault than raw talent at LB.
Embree has a team comprised of older guys who have lost, lost, lost. They are emotionally scarred.
Embree has a bunch of youth, without leadership from the upperclass guys. Probably the youngest team in our history and in the country.
Embree and coaches have an eye for talent, I believe that.
But can they coach? Can we see improvement week to week?
If I'm the AD, I haven't given up on Embree...... yet. But how the team plays the rest of this season will make or break it for me.
You have to expect improvement. I'm not seeing it. But I'll give it the rest of the season.
I'm also betting that Chris Peterson gets his offense going. Maybe not this year, but with time to get the right talent in there.
Give me a ****ing break. We have better athletes than CSU and Sac State in the skill positions
Boise is playing in that meat-grinder Mountain West Conference. They have never face Mountain West speed before.
Our defense isn't that young except for the cornerback position.
Even the DL, which we talk about being so young has 1 senior (Pericak), 2 juniors (Uzo-Diribe & Bonsu) and 2 sophomores (Poston & Parker) in the rotation to go along with the freshmen they're working in.
Injuries hurt. But when Rippy went down at LB, we had a bunch of juniors and sophomores to step in. When Polk went down at Safety, we had 2 juniors who have played a ton (Orms & Smith) who should have been ready to step in.
Youth excuse at WR, RB and CB? I'll agree. Those also happen to be the easiest positions to play well as an underclassman.
Youth excuse on the interior DL? I'll listen. We have relied on Tupou and Solis a lot. But since they haven't been the problem with the defense (we're not getting beat because teams are running up the gut), I don't know why anyone would point to our youth there as an excuse for giving up over 42 ppg.
I kind of think its a little bit of youth along with a lack of senior leadership. But maybe that senior leadership thing is overrated. Hell, I don't know.
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