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The Best Players

9. Punt Return- Lets just say this has to be a part of a weak offense and Espy is a joke back there. i know the guy probably busts his ass but there is no way he should be returning punts in the Big 12. I could say something else but I wont, thats how pitiful this has become.

Espy is not a punt returner. He's a punt catcher. Juicebox and the Riddler have decided that catching a punt is all that matters. Increasing your fumble risk so you have a chance at some explosive plays is just insanity. Same reason we never seem to go after a FG or Punt block. Not worth the risk of getting beaten by a fake or flagged for a roughing penalty. We play "not to lose" instead of playing to win... and Espy as punt catcher is the prime example.
 
Espy is not a punt returner. He's a punt catcher. Juicebox and the Riddler have decided that catching a punt is all that matters. Increasing your fumble risk so you have a chance at some explosive plays is just insanity. Same reason we never seem to go after a FG or Punt block. Not worth the risk of getting beaten by a fake or flagged for a roughing penalty. We play "not to lose" instead of playing to win... and Espy as punt catcher is the prime example.

Good call on the punt and FG block. I don't think I've ever seen us go after a FG/extra point/punt since Hawk has been here. We should be able to do it too which is the mind boggling part. Kasa and Solder have all the makings of awesome blockers. Frank Beamer would be all over this.
 
I don't think my argument centers around saying Cody is a good QB. He has clearly struggled this year. But it is not clear to me that Hansen is the answer THIS year. There is more to our issues than just QB play. The good argument for me is that with the young WR we brought in this year, I would much rather watch a Hansen throwing to them for 3 years then just 2.

It's funny you bring up B-Jax because I think he is a perfect example of why Hansen might NOT be the answer. He was as mobile a QB as we have had at CU in a while, and yet it did us no good. If B-jax feet couldn't produce any wins for us what makes us think TH's will?

Cody didn't get us to a bowl game last year and is playing worse this year.

Whether or not Cody is the best QB is irrelevant at this point, because post season play is very unlikely. So unless you want to see Cody at QB for another year, CU needs to start prepping for a new QB. Or do you want to repeat this aggravation again next another year?
 
Cody didn't get us to a bowl game last year and is playing worse this year.

Whether or not Cody is the best QB is irrelevant at this point, because post season play is very unlikely. So unless you want to see Cody at QB for another year, CU needs to start prepping for a new QB. Or do you want to repeat this aggravation again next another year?

:thumbsup: Start playing someone else. Wait until after the UT game so they don't get killed. But next game vs. KU there needs to be a change at QB. All our offensive problems start at the QB.
 
First of all, B-Jax should have never seen the field at QB and wouldn't have if Hawk hadn't run off Brian White. :wink2: But, anyway...

B-Jax played for 1 year. Hansen would get to start for 8 games this year and then have the opportunity for 2 more years. You need to find out what you've got in this guy.

Is Tyler a bigger, taller, faster QB with a stronger arm and better mobility than Cody? Absolutely. I don't think even Cody would argue that. Potential exists with Hansen because he has all the physical tools. Coaches say he knows the offense. All that's missing is game experience. If he gets it over the next 8 games and doesn't win games and doesn't get better as the season goes along, then we know he's a bust. We need to know that, because we can't win with Cody next year and we need to know if we can win with Hansen. Because if we can't, we need to go full steam after a top JUCO QB to carry us the next couple years until Clark, Lobato, Spond, Hirschman or someone else is ready to lead this team.

YMSSR, Buffnik. Cody has no upside. What you see is all you are ever going to get out of him. Not because he isn't a great competitor and not because he's not giving it his all, but because he lacks the physical tools. Hansen has those physical tools. Let's give him the rest of the season to see what he can do. Give Tyler all the snaps, not Cody. Let him either sink or swim, but not like they did last year. Give him the ball and let him be the guy for the rest of the season, barring some kind of injury.
 
Good call on the punt and FG block. I don't think I've ever seen us go after a FG/extra point/punt since Hawk has been here. We should be able to do it too which is the mind boggling part. Kasa and Solder have all the makings of awesome blockers. Frank Beamer would be all over this.

That's because Frank Beamer plays to win.
 
I admit I have a bad memory but I recall hansen getting significant playing time in the following games. Not just mop up duty.

Starting maybe relative because I know he was splitting time with Cody during some of these games. But in all 4 of these games he saw more or equal time with Cody

KSU
Missouri
A&M
ISU

I love the revising of history that we go through. Hansen came off the bench against KSU and helped CU get the win. He started the Missouri game but in reality he was splitting time with Cody. He was 12 for 16 in passing against Missouri and Cody was 9 for 17...Cody actually took the starter snaps during the week. Cody started against A&M but Hansen took snaps also. Tyler got he first week of actually taking starter snaps in practice the weak before the ISU game, he started but was pulled at half and never saw the field in meaning game time again.

Here you had a true frosh who only had the fall camp to learn the playbook and did not get starter snaps in practice most of the time and you wonder why he would struggle in some games.

Why are there two sets of criteria for QBs on this team. If the backup comes in and struggles he is yanked right away but if Cody struggles he just gets to play on. We heard there was going to be QB competition this year but then we find out that Hansen red shirting was decided the first week of fall camp.
 
I love the revising of history that we go through. Hansen came off the bench against KSU and helped CU get the win. He started the Missouri game but in reality he was splitting time with Cody. He was 12 for 16 in passing against Missouri and Cody was 9 for 17...Cody actually took the starter snaps during the week. Cody started against A&M but Hansen took snaps also. Tyler got he first week of actually taking starter snaps in practice the weak before the ISU game, he started but was pulled at half and never saw the field in meaning game time again.

Here you had a true frosh who only had the fall camp to learn the playbook and did not get starter snaps in practice most of the time and you wonder why he would struggle in some games.

Why are there two sets of criteria for QBs on this team. If the backup comes in and struggles he is yanked right away but if Cody struggles he just gets to play on. We heard there was going to be QB competition this year but then we find out that Hansen red shirting was decided the first week of fall camp.

I totally agree with what you've said here. I would like to see Hansen in for a whole game and see what he can do with our team. I honestly think Hawk Sr's afraid that he'll give us all something even more to rant about if someone else comes in and lines up behind center and proves him wrong. It's clear that Hawk Jr's not going to take us anywhere, how often is it that a head coach leaves their QB in the game after he's tossed 3 int's and made several horrible throws?
 
. I think Hansen will clearly overtake Cody next year. I think the RS year will do him good.
I, for one, do not believe for a minute this staf will ever see TH as being better than CH. If DH is around next year, CH will be the starter IMO. I can hear it now, "You can't buy the kind of leadership and experience a fifth year sr. brings to the table, and you can't fail to use that...".
 
There is a general consensus on these boards that Hawkins doesn't start his more talented players. I would like to challenge this to an extent by going through the positions.

1) O-line - Does anyone think we have some on the bench who should not be?
2) TE - Think this one is obvious
3) CB - Is there a name I don't know about?
4) Safety - We actually put some players on the bench to get more talent back there.
5) LB - Seems to me most of our LB see alot of playing time, even the younger ones
6) D-Line?
7) RB - Is DS really better than what we have in Stuart? If so what have you seen, except the 1 game, that tells you this?
8) WR - Lots of debate here.
9) QB - We know Cody is not performing, but is there clear QB behind him that is more talented? Or is this just a case of make a change to see what happens?

When I go through this list, outside of a few positions that there is legitimate points to be made on both sides, I don't see a trend of Hawkins not starting his best players.

i don't really believe this hype. i don't think he has much sitting on the sidelines either. I do wonder about obi and scott sometimes or how he can't have one WR on the team that actually looks like one. but no, i think he's completely lost and has jack **** in the gas tank.
 
Regardless of what we have sitting on the bench at the QB position, virtually every other cfb coach would have tried something else at this point. We have yet to have another QB take even a single snap.

Sometimes, practice performance is not indicative of game performance. Some guys light it up in practice, as I hear Cody does, and struggle in games. Some guys step up big time in game situations and make their name on the field. Basically, at this point, you at least try something else. Anything else.

The personnel issues at WR are extensive and extensively documented. I refuse to believe that Espinoza is a better option than Simas or Simmons, period. If the playbook really is that complicated, perhaps it is time to run some go routes or simplify it a little bit. Both of these players have 2 years of participating in college football under their belts. There is no way they would be less effective than Espinoza. McKnight is definitely making a very solid contribution, but frankly, I think in a lot of programs he would play a smaller role as a #3 guy or change of pace guy rather than an every down, #1 receiver type of player.

WR is perhaps the position in football where players are most successful being "plugged in" and given the opportunity to learn on the fly. Look at how many young WR's have been the best in the conference, and the nation, the past few years. The Big 12 and the SEC, for example, have been dominated completely the last few years by young wide receivers - AJ Green, Julio Jones, Dez Bryant, Crabtree, Maclin come to mind. I am not saying that we have these kind of guys on our roster, but we have some talented players.

Jeremy Maclin, for example, was never a super-polished WR. He ran primarily go routes or little screens that were designed specifically to get him the ball and let him show off his speed. This guy was never really utilized as a part of any super-complicated play. At the bare minimum, him being on the field demanded the attention of the other teams best corner, even when Missouri didn't really plan on throwing to him. Teams have to respect speed and they have to respect the threat of the big play or they will get burned. At CU, neither of those things are a concern and as a result we have teams stacking the box and dropping back into coverage schemes where they might give up a few yards on any given play, but almost never more than 5-7 yards.

RB - Stewart has earned his touches but there is no reason why him and Darrell can't touch the ball at least 15+ times a game each. I believe that the reason Scott doesn't play much has little to do with his ability and a lot to do with some kind of problem that Hawkins has with him. Even Hagan has suggested to the press that he anticipated DS to be much more involved in this offense than he has been. There is no reason, ever, for Sumler to get more touches than DS. DS has simply not been given any opportunity to shine here at CU.

OL - Not much to say here, outside of my curiosity regarding the decision to play Miller at guard.

LB - Why does Beatty play such number of snaps? I would assume the reason to be that he is something of a liability in coverage or he would play more, but with 7 guys up front, there has to be room for a pass rush guy on more than a few plays a game. Why doesn't Mohler play way more? Why don't Major and Rippy play way more? This was supposed to be a huge strength of the team and the unit, as a whole, has been pretty mediocre.

DL - No comment here, I will defer to those more knowledgeable on this subject. I will say, though, if you are going to burn Kasa's RS, he should get some legitimate playing time.

Secondary - Guys are just underperforming here, I think, but I would like to see a little less of Mahnke and probably Polk until they are more ready to play safety at this level.

PR/KR - Just say no to one of the slowest players on your team returning punts. Catching the ball needs to be a given and an expectation, not a superlative that qualifies you to handle the duties exclusively when you lack significant speed or the ability to make people miss. I find it impossible to believe that our more athletic players have such an inability to field a punt that we need to be using the player we are at this position. At some point, you have some minimum expectations of your playmakers, you have faith in them, and you put them on the field.

Simply outstanding post. I agree.
 
nik... that stat comparison to Bjax with cody was fan ****ing tastic. ymssr...
 
But it is not clear to me that Hansen is the answer THIS year.

I see the QB situation a lot like the WR situation. They guy on the field is not getting it done, and he has reached his max potential. What could it possibly hurt to let TH have a go at running the team? They're already losing games, so that can't possibly be the reason. So why not give it a shot? What do they have to lose?
 
I, for one, do not believe for a minute this staf will ever see TH as being better than CH. If DH is around next year, CH will be the starter IMO. I can hear it now, "You can't buy the kind of leadership and experience a fifth year sr. brings to the table, and you can't fail to use that...".

Correct.

Even if they do change to Hansen next season, it does not exactly put the staff in a positive light. You do not see many three-year starters who have been getting the great majority of the reps/starts lose their job suddenly.
 
Correct.

Even if they do change to Hansen next season, it does not exactly put the staff in a positive light. You do not see many three-year starters who have been getting the great majority of the reps/starts lose their job suddenly.

Agreed. I think the staff really painted themselves into a corner on this one. They either should have pulled Hansen's RS last year, put the ball in his hand and let him lead the team for better or worse, or they should have just stuck with Cody last year and let Hansen take his RS year.

They didn't do that, however. They sort of pulled his RS and then thrashed around with what to do. Now they are paying for it. Promising him they'd RS him this year to make up for what they pulled last year.

Now, of course, they didn't expect this year to play out as poorly as it has so far and they are stuck.

So, regardless of how I feel about Hansen or lil' Hawk, I am not happy with the way the coaching staff has handled this whole situation and I have no clue how they can straighten it out.
 
Well said NW. There is no easy way to resolve the situation. Either they stick with a guy who simply is not getting the job done or they admit they have been wrong for the better part of two seasons now. Not good.
 
Well said NW. There is no easy way to resolve the situation. Either they stick with a guy who simply is not getting the job done or they admit they have been wrong for the better part of two seasons now. Not good.

And there is no way that Hawk SR will throw his son under the bus.
 
I, for one, do not believe for a minute this staf will ever see TH as being better than CH. If DH is around next year, CH will be the starter IMO. I can hear it now, "You can't buy the kind of leadership and experience a fifth year sr. brings to the table, and you can't fail to use that...".

That's exactly what I think will happen. This coaching staff is way too hung up on players knowing their assignments and practicing well for a QB with 3 years of starting experience to hit the bench as a redshirt Senior. I hope Chilly is right, though.
 
Agreed. I think the staff really painted themselves into a corner on this one. They either should have pulled Hansen's RS last year, put the ball in his hand and let him lead the team for better or worse, or they should have just stuck with Cody last year and let Hansen take his RS year.

They didn't do that, however. They sort of pulled his RS and then thrashed around with what to do. Now they are paying for it. Promising him they'd RS him this year to make up for what they pulled last year.

Now, of course, they didn't expect this year to play out as poorly as it has so far and they are stuck.

So, regardless of how I feel about Hansen or lil' Hawk, I am not happy with the way the coaching staff has handled this whole situation and I have no clue how they can straighten it out.

This is where the problem lies. A good manager continuously re-evaluates. This staff never re-evaluates. Therefore, this staff is not good. QED
 
If they went to Hansen, they could spin it. Hansen would go along with the party line, just like he has on all the other BS. Just needs to be a bunch of stuff about how the light has gone on for Tyler and it's what everyone has been waiting for. That he now has earned the full confidence of the players and staff. That he's now got the self-confidence he needs to succeed. Further, that Cody has been working tirelessly to mentor Tyler and bring him along because Cody's a modern day saint and it's all about what's best for the team with Cody. He's excited about his new role of being an extra coach and extra set of eyes for Kiesau on the sidelines. Blah, blah, blah. No one would question it because sometimes it's better to just nod and smile when you get your way.
 
I love the revising of history that we go through. Hansen came off the bench against KSU and helped CU get the win. He started the Missouri game but in reality he was splitting time with Cody. He was 12 for 16 in passing against Missouri and Cody was 9 for 17...Cody actually took the starter snaps during the week. Cody started against A&M but Hansen took snaps also. Tyler got he first week of actually taking starter snaps in practice the weak before the ISU game, he started but was pulled at half and never saw the field in meaning game time again.

Here you had a true frosh who only had the fall camp to learn the playbook and did not get starter snaps in practice most of the time and you wonder why he would struggle in some games.

Why are there two sets of criteria for QBs on this team. If the backup comes in and struggles he is yanked right away but if Cody struggles he just gets to play on. We heard there was going to be QB competition this year but then we find out that Hansen red shirting was decided the first week of fall camp.

You guys can't have it both ways. You can't say we should play him in a game situation because some players shine in the games and not in practice, then turn around and say he struggled last year because he wasn't getting the practice time.

I have contended through the entire thread that I think a RS year for Hansen will do wonders for him, because he will get the practice time and have the opportunity to grow, so that next year he becomes our starter and we have him for 3 years.

So which is it. Practice matters or Practice doesn't matter.
 
I love the revising of history that we go through. Hansen came off the bench against KSU and helped CU get the win. He started the Missouri game but in reality he was splitting time with Cody. He was 12 for 16 in passing against Missouri and Cody was 9 for 17...Cody actually took the starter snaps during the week. Cody started against A&M but Hansen took snaps also. Tyler got he first week of actually taking starter snaps in practice the weak before the ISU game, he started but was pulled at half and never saw the field in meaning game time again.

Here you had a true frosh who only had the fall camp to learn the playbook and did not get starter snaps in practice most of the time and you wonder why he would struggle in some games.

Why are there two sets of criteria for QBs on this team. If the backup comes in and struggles he is yanked right away but if Cody struggles he just gets to play on. We heard there was going to be QB competition this year but then we find out that Hansen red shirting was decided the first week of fall camp.
]

There are not to sets of rules. If Hansen had kept his RS last year like he should of, Hawkins screwed the pouch on that one, then he would be available to come in for Cody this year. You have to factor this into the equation. I believe Hawkins wants Hansen starting for 3 years and so does Hansen. That is why the RS is so important, and it is also why they don't repeat last years mistake and pull his RS.
 
I see the QB situation a lot like the WR situation. They guy on the field is not getting it done, and he has reached his max potential. What could it possibly hurt to let TH have a go at running the team? They're already losing games, so that can't possibly be the reason. So why not give it a shot? What do they have to lose?

I think we are failing to see the obvious. What you have to lose is his RS year. It was a huge mistake to pull it last year and now they are trying to get it back.
 
You guys can't have it both ways. You can't say we should play him in a game situation because some players shine in the games and not in practice, then turn around and say he struggled last year because he wasn't getting the practice time.

I have contended through the entire thread that I think a RS year for Hansen will do wonders for him, because he will get the practice time and have the opportunity to grow, so that next year he becomes our starter and we have him for 3 years.

So which is it. Practice matters or Practice doesn't matter.

Practice and games matter. If Hansen was getting the game experience and the reps with the starters in practice, he would be in good shape for next season. As it is now, Cody continues to get the great majority of the practice reps and he is getting all of the playing time in games. Exactly how is this situation going to suddenly change to Hansen's benefit for him to be a starter next season? Are the coaches going to suddenly give him a ton of reps in the Spring? Very doubtful.
 
Practice and games matter. If Hansen was getting the game experience and the reps with the starters in practice, he would be in good shape for next season. As it is now, Cody continues to get the great majority of the practice reps and he is getting all of the playing time in games. Exactly how is this situation going to suddenly change to Hansen's benefit for him to be a starter next season? Are the coaches going to suddenly give him a ton of reps in the Spring? Very doubtful.

Exactly. The only way the Hansen RS makes sense is if (as stated) you need to create class separation between him and Cody. And the only way it makes sense to create this separation (rather than having 2 years of separation between Hansen and Lobato/Evans) is if you have already decided that Cody is the 2010 starter.

Chilly: We're saying that Tyler should get 2/3 of a season (2009) to show what he's got as an audition to be the guy in 2010 and 2011. If he's not, we need a top JUCO recruit. I don't see the other side of this unless you think Cody is good enough to QB this team the rest of 2009 and through 2010.
 
This situation isnt gonna change and, if hawk dont fix it, he wont be here anyway. They will find a way to get rid of him if its looked at as a lost cause. Might hurt in the short term but it would be good for the long term.
 
I just shake my head at you guys. I really do. It'll only be a benefit to Hansen to have had pretty significant playing time as a freshman and then to red shirt this year.
 
it'll certainly benefit hawk jr huh, hansen should of started bottomline. dont think for a second hawk sr. didnt know this was gonna be a tough year, either that or he is as bad a coach as everyone says. this is CU, I grew up watching a top ten program, wtf happened? this guy has had national championship come out of his mouth and we get blown out by toledo? i shake my head at your logic.
 
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