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The Pac-12 Is Increasingly A Have-Not

It makes far too much sense to move P12 HQ to Vegas that it’ll never actually happen. The sports world is converging on Vegas. NFL, NHL, conference tourney for hoops, conference championship for P12 football, THE destination city for sports fans and it’s extremely cheap real estate. The only problem is that employees working for the Pac 12 don’t want to move from SF to Vegas. Sooooo they won’t.
 
TSchekler said:
It makes far too much sense to move P12 HQ to Vegas that it’ll never actually happen. The sports world is converging on Vegas. NFL, NHL, conference tourney for hoops, conference championship for P12 football, THE destination city for sports fans and it’s extremely cheap real estate. The only problem is that employees working for the Pac 12 don’t want to move from SF to Vegas. Sooooo they won’t.
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I actually remember an article from a year or two ago about one of the PAC 12 executives commuting from LA to SF and the PAC 12 being very vague about whether they paid for that or he did.

So who knows how many of them actually live in SF.
 
NuggNinja said:
I actually remember an article from a year or two ago about one of the PAC 12 executives commuting from LA to SF and the PAC 12 being very vague about whether they paid for that or he did.

So who knows how many of them actually live in SF.
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I think it’s safe to say the majority of them live in the area, but yes, I’m sure some higher ups commute, definitely at the expense of the conference. Until the Presidents decide enough is enough, nothing will change.
 
All I know is that I hope that Scott & his unflinching supporters on the Pac-12 board deliver an industry-shaping deal in 2023 and I end up being totally wrong.

I'm not holding my breath, but I guess I can hope. Would love to be eating crow in a few years. Would also love something impactful before 2023.
 
TSchekler said:
It makes far too much sense to move P12 HQ to Vegas that it’ll never actually happen. The sports world is converging on Vegas. NFL, NHL, conference tourney for hoops, conference championship for P12 football, THE destination city for sports fans and it’s extremely cheap real estate. The only problem is that employees working for the Pac 12 don’t want to move from SF to Vegas. Sooooo they won’t.
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Then terminate them. Happens all the time in the real world. Tell them their job is now in LV if they want it. I doubt there are many who aren't replaceable. An even better idea would be to move it to Bakersfield or Fresno so they'd all quit. Burn down the House of Larry.
 
Buffnik said:
All I know is that I hope that Scott & his unflinching supporters on the Pac-12 board deliver an industry-shaping deal in 2023 and I end up being totally wrong.

I'm not holding my breath, but I guess I can hope. Would love to be eating crow in a few years. Would also love something impactful before 2023.
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I have little faith in us getting a conference friendly mega deal unless it’s not incredibly long term and available on many streaming platforms/DirecTV.
 
manhattanbuf said:
I have little faith in us getting a conference friendly mega deal unless it’s not incredibly long term and available on many streaming platforms/DirecTV.
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It would have to be something that was disruptive in the dollar amounts and also disruptive on distribution by not being tilted to cable or satellite. Otherwise it would be just a standard deal that wouldn't justify the revenue shortfalls we've seen or confirm the value of the "complex" strategy the Pac-12 has pursued.
 
Pac 12 should put its headquarters in Vegas, inside its own casino and sports book palace.
 
PAHIBuff said:
Then terminate them. Happens all the time in the real world. Tell them their job is now in LV if they want it. I doubt there are many who aren't replaceable. An even better idea would be to move it to Bakersfield or Fresno so they'd all quit. Burn down the House of Larry.
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I’m talking about the Pac 12 executives. The decision makers (outside of the Presidents of course)
 
TSchekler said:
It makes far too much sense to move P12 HQ to Vegas that it’ll never actually happen. The sports world is converging on Vegas. NFL, NHL, conference tourney for hoops, conference championship for P12 football, THE destination city for sports fans and it’s extremely cheap real estate. The only problem is that employees working for the Pac 12 don’t want to move from SF to Vegas. Sooooo they won’t.
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Wilner or some SI investigative journalist would agree. Finding links between the P12 office and the LV sports book would be catnip.

Imagine the Woodie Dixon officiating scandal if it included a stock photo of league officials exiting the Bellagio.
 
If the Pac 12 continues to remain financially strapped, probably the best move CU could make in order to become relevant in football would be to move to the Big Ten. The link below is a blog post from 2018, showing that a large number of Big Ten schools have a significant number of alumni in Denver. There are likely only two slots left for Big Ten membership, but Colorado could be a fit.

CU to the Big Ten?
 
Just imagine CU being in the B1G West with Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, and Northwestern along with perhaps Kansas. That would have more of a Big 8 feel. CU's first B1G home opener would be against Michigan State in that case.
 
Jalapeno said:
Just imagine CU being in the B1G West with ****braska, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, and Northwestern along with perhaps Kansas. That would have more of a Big 8 feel. CU's first B1G home opener would be against Michigan State in that case.
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At least @sweaty teets would be happy although he’d then have to drop the Gophers as his second team ;)
 
Jens1893 said:
I’m having a hard time believing CU is an attractive proposition to the B1G in its current state.
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You can say that if you look at purely the football program however CU is attractive from other angles. It is in a fairly large (and growing) market, fits in well academically, does well in non-revenue sports like cross country and skiing, has a decent basketball program, and has a long-standing rivalry with a university already in the B1G. You can really argue either way.
 
Boulder said:
You can say that if you look at purely the football program however CU is attractive from other angles. It is in a fairly large (and growing) market, fits in well academically, does well in non-revenue sports like cross country and skiing, has a decent basketball program, and has a long-standing rivalry with a university already in the B1G. You can really argue either way.
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I’m just not sure we add enough for it to make sense for them to go to 16 and think we’re significantly more interested than they would be.

I think our best shot is for the P12 to figure out a way to add OU/UT.
 
Jens1893 said:
I’m just not sure we add enough for it to make sense for them to go to 16 and think we’re significantly more interested than they would be.

I think our best shot is for the P12 to figure out a way to add OU/UT.
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We would add the 5th largest media market in their conference, assuming you aren't including NY in that group because of Rutgers. Would add a rivalry game with Nebraska and a destination location for all the Midwesterners to escape for away games during the 8 months of gloom they get.
 
Jens1893 said:
I’m just not sure we add enough for it to make sense for them to go to 16 and think we’re significantly more interested than they would be.

I think our best shot is for the P12 to figure out a way to add OU/UT.
Click to expand...
I generally agree with you, but I will toss out one the factors that made (and still makes) sense for CU in respect to the Pac: proximity to a lot of alumni.

CU has a metric ****-ton of alumni in the P12 footprint, and outside of DFW, very, very little in the B12. That was certainly a factor when we moved (the B1G would be between the two fwiw).

That factor comes into play in the other direction with the B1G: those schools have a lot of alumni in Colorado. For those schools connecting with those alumni via away games isn't nothing.
 
skibum said:
I generally agree with you, but I will toss out one the factors that made (and still makes) sense for CU in respect to the Pac: proximity to a lot of alumni.

CU has a metric ****-ton of alumni in the P12 footprint, and outside of DFW, very, very little in the B12. That was certainly a factor when we moved (the B1G would be between the two fwiw).

That factor comes into play in the other direction with the B1G: those schools have a lot of alumni in Colorado. For those schools connecting with those alumni via away games isn't nothing.
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The Big 10 just expanded which is why they are so flush with cash—they got a new tv deal. And they have no incentive to expand again so soon.

The PAC 12 had that not that long ago and gets to negotiate its media rights deal in a couple of years. It will be a bigger deal than the current one.

Plus, CBS is losing the SEC in a couple of years, the Pac 12 should try to fill that void. Streaming services (which weren’t thought of in the last deal) are expanding and desperate for content. And networks are desperate for content that people watch live and football is the best ratings draw for that, so the media deals for them are getting bigger.

If you want an immediate influx of cash and to maximize a new media rights deal, expansion of the PAC 12 is the far more realistic option.
 
PAC12 expansion how? Adding UNLV, SDSU, Bosie, et al is not going satisfy CBS or other major carriers. I think it would take a BIG12 collapse and adding of OU, TX, OSU, KU(?)
 
Jens1893 said:
I’m having a hard time believing CU is an attractive proposition to the B1G in its current state.
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You're talking about the conference that was deciding between Kansas and Rutgers last time. They're all about markets, AAU and contiguous geographic footprint.
 
NuggNinja said:
The Big 10 just expanded which is why they are so flush with cash—they got a new tv deal. And they have no incentive to expand again so soon.

The PAC 12 had that not that long ago and gets to negotiate its media rights deal in a couple of years. It will be a bigger deal than the current one.

Plus, CBS is losing the SEC in a couple of years, the Pac 12 should try to fill that void. Streaming services (which weren’t thought of in the last deal) are expanding and desperate for content. And networks are desperate for content that people watch live and football is the best ratings draw for that, so the media deals for them are getting bigger.

If you want an immediate influx of cash and to maximize a new media rights deal, expansion of the PAC 12 is the far more realistic option.
Click to expand...

It expires in 2023. Same as the SEC. One year before the P12.
 
NuggNinja said:
The Big 10 just expanded which is why they are so flush with cash—they got a new tv deal. And they have no incentive to expand again so soon.

The PAC 12 had that not that long ago and gets to negotiate its media rights deal in a couple of years. It will be a bigger deal than the current one.

Plus, CBS is losing the SEC in a couple of years, the Pac 12 should try to fill that void. Streaming services (which weren’t thought of in the last deal) are expanding and desperate for content. And networks are desperate for content that people watch live and football is the best ratings draw for that, so the media deals for them are getting bigger.

If you want an immediate influx of cash and to maximize a new media rights deal, expansion of the PAC 12 is the far more realistic option.
Click to expand...
So the streaming services "weren't thought of last time" - please expand this thought.

Be sure to include the fact that YouTube international was one of the very first Pac12 network distribution partners in your discussion.
 
skibum said:
So the streaming services "weren't thought of last time" - please expand this thought.

Be sure to include the fact that YouTube international was one of the very first Pac12 network distribution partners in your discussion.
Click to expand...

Well, maybe you can watch games in other countries on YouTube but I don’t think you can do that in America. Or if you can I don’t know how, so it’s not common knowledge.

Youtube also isn’t a service that makes money. And it’s my understanding that the current media rights deal prevents them from offering their own OTT streaming service or aligning with a streaming service in which they could sell games directly to the consumer and actually make significant money.

They didn’t anticipate the growth of cord cutting and the popularity of streaming.


Jens1893 said:
It expires in 2023. Same as the SEC. One year before the P12.
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Wow, I didn’t realize their contracts weren’t extended that long. But my point was just that the Big 10 expanded a couple years after the PAC 10 which allowed them to re-negotiate its deal for more money—when media rights deals have gotten bigger every year.

The PAC 12 should get a much larger payout on its next deal regardless of what happens. But if it expands it could be enormous.

If the PAC 12 had the California and Texas markets in its conference, I think its footprint would be more attractive than the Big 10’s.
 
NuggNinja said:
Wow, I didn’t realize their contracts weren’t extended that long. But my point was just that the Big 10 expanded a couple years after the PAC 10 which allowed them to re-negotiate its deal for more money—when media rights deals have gotten bigger every year.

The PAC 12 should get a much larger payout on its next deal regardless of what happens. But if it expands it could be enormous.

If the PAC 12 had the California and Texas markets in its conference, I think its footprint would be more attractive than the Big 10’s.
Click to expand...

Or it goes something like this

- ESPN hitches it wagon to the SEC. As rumoured, they take the SEC Saturday afternoon slot from CBS, which will give them all SEC TV rights in addition to the partnership they have with the ACC for the ACC Network
- Fox hitches its wagon to the B1G and takes over the B1G rights ESPN used to have
- CBS, which balked at the 300m the ESPN is paying for the 15 SEC games that used to be on CBS, saves its budget for the new NFL contract and exits the college game

In this scenario the 2 biggest TV networks in the college game have blown most of their budget and filled most of their inventory a year before the P12 rights become available and the Pac-12 will battle the B12 for the scraps left on the table. With sports TV rights getting so obscenely expensive these days, the networks may start making budget decisions at some point and there're warning signs in other countries where the big boom in fees is over. Sports TV rights will remain valuable, but the networks may become more cost conscious and pick and choose what they want.
 
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