We now take you to Ann Arbor Michigan

[The Alabaster Yak]

tr

true. doesn't address my question in any way, but I certainly don't dispute it.

let me ask a more specific question

Do you know what, if anything, is stopping the B1G from autonomously implementing helmet mics?

You asked why the autonomous five group couldn't implement changes different than anyone else. I feel like my response answered that. From a group level, there is no central governing body to bring all conferences together.

To answer your separate question about why individual P5 conferences don't autonomously implement helmet mics, Klatt mentioned the inconsistent rules for OOC opponents, along with some coaches within the conferences honestly don't want it. Matt Rhule actually addressed this in his press conference this week and said that many coaches don't want to teach their QBs how to play the game. They want to call the formation, have the offense line up, and allow the coaching staff to diagnose the defense alignment and tell the entire offense what play to run from the sideline. You can't do that with helmet mics.

 

[wsp4820]

You asked why the autonomous five group couldn't implement changes different than anyone else. I feel like my response answered that. From a group level, there is no central governing body to bring all conferences together.

To answer your separate question about why individual P5 conferences don't autonomously implement helmet mics, Klatt mentioned the inconsistent rules for OOC opponents, along with some coaches within the conferences honestly don't want it. Matt Rhule actually addressed this in his press conference this week and said that many coaches don't want to teach their QBs how to play the game. They want to call the formation, have the offense line up, and allow the coaching staff to diagnose the defense alignment and tell the entire offense what play to run from the sideline. You can't do that with helmet mics.

That’s dumb. Sure you can. Just because you can talk in the QB’s ear doesn’t mean you can no longer do signs for the other 10 guys. You just don’t necessarily have to.

 

[hawg1]

Maybe not. Rumors that the computer fraud case involved hacking OSUs athletic department computer system.

University of Michigan Police Department said it was not related to sign stealing investigation.

 

[Buffs35]

Man says U-M staffer paid him to tape Big 10 foes

Suspended Michigan football staffer Connor Stalions compensated at least one person for recording future Wolverines opponents with "a couple hundred dollars" and a ticket to a Michigan home game, according to the person.

www.espn.com

 

[Agent Dave Kujan]

Man says U-M staffer paid him to tape Big 10 foes

Suspended Michigan football staffer Connor Stalions compensated at least one person for recording future Wolverines opponents with "a couple hundred dollars" and a ticket to a Michigan home game, according to the person.

www.espn.com

Incredible that they actually involved third parties in this process. They deserve to go down based on pure stupidity.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

That’s dumb. Sure you can. Just because you can talk in the QB’s ear doesn’t mean you can no longer do signs for the other 10 guys. You just don’t necessarily have to.

I mean, it defeats the purpose of having the mic if you’re just going to signal plays in anyways. That’s the whole point of the mic in QB and one defensive players helmet

 

[AeroBuff99]

Incredible that they actually involved third parties in this process. They deserve to go down based on pure stupidity.

Except that there is nothing in the D1 manual that prohibits paying third parties to do scouting for you. And a reminder that the football rule book doesn't apply to spectators, it only applies to the participants (players, coaches, staff) of a particular game.

This whole investigation is going to result in some made up infraction that UM can lawyer up and beat without any punishment because it isn't specifically against the rules the way they did it. What might get the staffer though are potential computer crimes if there is truth to those rumors.

 

[Agent Dave Kujan]

Except that there is nothing in the D1 manual that prohibits paying third parties to do scouting for you. And a reminder that the football rule book doesn't apply to spectators, it only applies to the participants (players, coaches, staff) of a particular game.

This whole investigation is going to result in some made up infraction that UM can lawyer up and beat without any punishment because it isn't specifically against the rules the way they did it. What might get the staffer though are potential computer crimes if there is truth to those rumors.

That’s ridiculous. If the rules say you can’t film a game at someone else’s field, then I’m certain that the rules don’t allow for paying someone else to film the game.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

That’s ridiculous. If the rules say you can’t film a game at someone else’s field, then I’m certain that the rules don’t allow for paying someone else to film the game.

Correct. Some people are desperately trying to carry water for Michigan and find up a loophole. ESPN found a guy that Stallions paid to go to games. It’s getting worse and worse for Michigan

 

[Buffnik]

Except that there is nothing in the D1 manual that prohibits paying third parties to do scouting for you. And a reminder that the football rule book doesn't apply to spectators, it only applies to the participants (players, coaches, staff) of a particular game.

This whole investigation is going to result in some made up infraction that UM can lawyer up and beat without any punishment because it isn't specifically against the rules the way they did it. What might get the staffer though are potential computer crimes if there is truth to those rumors.

You're taking the position that if someone is not allowed to do something they can get around the restriction by paying a proxy to do it?

Interesting.

 

[Uncle Ken]

You're taking the position that if someone is not allowed to do something they can get around the restriction by paying a proxy to do it?

Interesting.

Which is why I always hire someone else to carry out my murders.

 

[goalline]

Which is why I always hire someone else to carry out my murders.

Your last check bounced by the way.

 

[Burrito]

Your last check bounced by the way.

I survived the attempt

 

[AeroBuff99]

That’s ridiculous. If the rules say you can’t film a game at someone else’s field, then I’m certain that the rules don’t allow for paying someone else to film the game.

Correct. Some people are desperately trying to carry water for Michigan and find up a loophole. ESPN found a guy that Stallions paid to go to games. It’s getting worse and worse for Michigan

You're taking the position that if someone is not allowed to do something they can get around the restriction by paying a proxy to do it?

Interesting.

Paying someone or a firm to do advanced scouting was against the rules specifically for football, until they removed that rule and replaced it with the current one. Once again, the rule applies to institutional staff members only.

Words in the rules matter. How they are written matters. Just because it is unethical does not make it against the rules. If they wanted to prohibit using scouting services or video services they would have written a rule to cover that.

 

[Buffnik]

Paying someone or a firm to do advanced scouting was against the rules specifically for football, until they removed that rule and replaced it with the current one. Once again, the rule applies to institutional staff members only.

Words in the rules matter. How they are written matters. Just because it is unethical does not make it against the rules. If they wanted to prohibit using scouting services or video services they would have written a rule to cover that.

So your position is that anything in the NCAA rules which bars an individual from doing a certain thing becomes permissible if the thing is done by a proxy hired to take the place of the person who is barred.

Interesting.

 

[MtnBuff]

Paying someone or a firm to do advanced scouting was against the rules specifically for football, until they removed that rule and replaced it with the current one. Once again, the rule applies to institutional staff members only.

Words in the rules matter. How they are written matters. Just because it is unethical does not make it against the rules. If they wanted to prohibit using scouting services or video services they would have written a rule to cover that.

You sound like a lawyer who knows his case is garbage but keeps pushing looking for a miracle. (Don't want to mention a particular current political issue)

When you are paying somebody to do a task for you they are working for you, they don't have to be formally on the school payroll, they are working for you.

 

[Buffnik]

You sound like a lawyer who knows his case is garbage but keeps pushing looking for a miracle. (Don't want to mention a particular current political issue)

When you are paying somebody to do a task for you they are working for you, they don't have to be formally on the school payroll, they are working for you.

Maybe he thinks it's only against the rules if you create an employer-employee relationship with your proxy. That it's ok as long as it's a consultant or vendor relationship.

 

[Tatanka™]

Paying someone or a firm to do advanced scouting was against the rules specifically for football, until they removed that rule and replaced it with the current one. Once again, the rule applies to institutional staff members only.

Words in the rules matter. How they are written matters. Just because it is unethical does not make it against the rules. If they wanted to prohibit using scouting services or video services they would have written a rule to cover that.

 

[hawg1]

Paying someone or a firm to do advanced scouting was against the rules specifically for football, until they removed that rule and replaced it with the current one. Once again, the rule applies to institutional staff members only.

Words in the rules matter. How they are written matters. Just because it is unethical does not make it against the rules. If they wanted to prohibit using scouting services or video services they would have written a rule to cover that.

fs filming against rules?

 

[AeroBuff99]

fs filming against rules?

No, otherwise there would be no game film. General questions get general answers.

 

[AeroBuff99]

2012 Rule



Updated in 2013



As it exists in 2023


The rule as it exists today applies to institutional staff members. I have scoured the rules to find any instance that prohibits the specific conduct alleged. If he didn't attend the games, he didn't break the rules as written from what I have seen. There may well be some other rule he broached but the specific allegations I can't find anything that prohibits the conduct. NCAA rules are not criminal laws and are treated as contractual obligations, so if it isn't specified, it is going to end up in a lawsuit.

The NCAA does not operate on ethics or morals, it operates on rules.

 

[MtnBuff]

What part of they broke the rule do you not understand.

In what you have posted, the 2023 version "Off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited except as provided"

The exceptions relate only to same site events such as tournaments that don't apply to football.

It specifies a staff member in the exceptions but again that doesn't even matter in football.

Don't you think that if your argument had any validity the Michigan lawyers would have already shut this thing down.

Those rules you talk about prohibit off campus scouting, doesn't matter by who.

You are grasping for straws and they aren't there to grasp.

 

[AeroBuff99]

What part of they broke the rule do you not understand.

In what you have posted, the 2023 version "Off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited except as provided"

The exceptions relate only to same site events such as tournaments that don't apply to football.

It specifies a staff member in the exceptions but again that doesn't even matter in football.

Don't you think that if your argument had any validity the Michigan lawyers would have already shut this thing down.

Those rules you talk about prohibit off campus scouting, doesn't matter by who.

You are grasping for straws and they aren't there to grasp.

Rule 11 only applies to institutional staff members.

 

[MtnBuff]

Rule 11 only applies to institutional staff members.

Again if you were right there would be no investigation ongoing. Simple, you are wrong on this one, Michigan cheated.

 

[AeroBuff99]

Again if you were right there would be no investigation ongoing. Simple, you are wrong on this one, Michigan cheated.

There are never investigations that later determine no rules were broken? The presence of an investigation is not evidence of wrong doing.

 

[Uncle Ken]

There are never investigations that later determine no rules were broken? The presence of an investigation is not evidence of wrong doing.

Yeah Mtn, you kind of set yourself up for that one.

 

[MtnBuff]

There are never investigations that later determine no rules were broken? The presence of an investigation is not evidence of wrong doing.

If the rule didn't apply they wouldn't be investigating.

Your interpretation of the rule is one that would only be expected to be seen on a Michigan fan message board. The rule is clear, no off-campus scouting. How you would imagine it becomes okay if the person doing the scouting isn't a formal university employee is simply ridiculous.

 

[Buffnik]

If the rule didn't apply they wouldn't be investigating.

Your interpretation of the rule is one that would only be expected to be seen on a Michigan fan message board. The rule is clear, no off-campus scouting. How you would imagine it becomes okay if the person doing the scouting isn't a formal university employee is simply ridiculous.

You see, if something isn't explicitly stated in the policy then it is permissible. Like an HR policy that's part of an employment agreement. He's applying the Costanza Defense to the Michigan situation.

 

[MtnBuff]

Yeah Mtn, you kind of set yourself up for that one.

It's already acknowledged that tickets were bought, games were scouted, signs were recorded and stolen.

The facts so far

Again if there wasn't significant evidence that the rules were broken the Michigan lawyers would have gotten this thing shut down before it ever got this far.

This isn't just somebody chasing a rumor

 

[AeroBuff99]

They are investigating to see if what he did broke that or any other rule. Until all facts are known we can't say they broke the rules. So far there is no evidence that he attended any games, in fact it seems the evidence shows he didn't. We don't even know if they actually have video of signals.