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We now take you to Ann Arbor Michigan

Sign stealing is a part of any sport where signs are used. With how expansive staffs are now, it would not be surprising if, in every major program, there is a guy whose job responsibilities include deciphering signals and opponent playbooks. If Michigan figured out a way to do it better while not breaking any rules more power to them. What remains to be seen is if Michigan broke rules in a way that is included in the current language and if it can be proven. The wider discussion needs to be why the nearly thirty year ban on in helmet radios hasn’t been overturned for college football. In helmet radios for one player on defense and offense greatly reduces the impact of signals in game.
 
Boulder said:
Sign stealing is a part of any sport where signs are used. With how expansive staffs are now, it would not be surprising if, in every major program, there is a guy whose job responsibilities include deciphering signals and opponent playbooks. If Michigan figured out a way to do it better while not breaking any rules more power to them. What remains to be seen is if Michigan broke rules in a way that is included in the current language and if it can be proven. The wider discussion needs to be why the nearly thirty year ban on in helmet radios hasn’t been overturned for college football. In helmet radios for one player on defense and offense greatly reduces the impact of signals in game.
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I was wondering about the helmet radio and why they don't do that. Would seem to be a better way.
 
SanDiegoBuff said:
Nope, I don’t see a difference at all. Regardless of how an opponent may get your signs, if you can’t figure out that the opponent has your signs, or if you’re too cocky/lazy to do anything about it, you deserve the L. There are enough ways for an opposing coach to make that a non-factor or even use it to their advantage, as is coming out now with Dykes using decoy signals in the playoff game. Very simply put, if an opposing coach got got by the Michigan scheme, that opposing coach is either lazy, ignorant or a poor understaffed school where Michigan didn’t need the advantage anyway.

For all of the money involved in college sports these days, it’s baffling to me that people actually believe that opposing coaches were going into games with no idea what Michigan was doing and just didn’t account for it.

And when you say “whatever film you have”, you’re talking YEARS of game film, all 22, every play a coach has called. That’s not insignificant.
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Whether or not you think it gave Michigan a material advantage or if teams are too “lazy” or stupid to change their signs is completely irrelevant to the situation. There are rules in place and Michigan blatantly broke them to gain an on field advantage over their opponents. They cheated. The rest of your point is smoke filled coffee house crap.
 
If it's something done on the field in real time...then it's fine.

If you're using video and scouting other teams' games and filming, it's bull**** and against the rules.

Not sure how anyone could come to a different conclusion.

People who say this is no big deal...were you also cool with the Patriots doing it?
 
I am fine with what the Patriots did and if Michigan had a program that utilized loopholes within the rulebook at the time of the violations it is also acceptable. Without a proactive central organizing body and a players union needed changes to college football are slow. Klatt laid out issues with radios that are solvable with the right individuals involved. The chaos caused by NIL, conference realignment, transfer portal, Michigan’s Sign Stealing, and so on result from a lack of a unified vision and body that isn't fit for what it is overseeing.
 
MtnBuff said:
No idea where this is going to lead but it isn't good for Weiss.

Consider though the implications in terms of football and punishments if Weiss is accessing other schools playbooks and game plans via his computer work.

If that can be shown (and the FBI is pretty good at finding that kind of thing) and it can be shown that the information was making it's way to Harbaugh this gets huge.

Major penalties for Michigan and Harbaugh done as a college coach.
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For the “everybody does it” crowd, Police and the FBI don’t often show up universities.
 
Not Sure said:
If I know what pitch is coming, I still have to hit it. Only a complete fool would think it doesn’t make my job a lot easier knowing what’s coming, though.
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People would look a lot more foolish in the batting cage if they didn’t know every pitch was fastball.
 
Boulder said:
I am fine with what the Patriots did and if Michigan had a program that utilized loopholes within the rulebook at the time of the violations it is also acceptable. Without a proactive central organizing body and a players union needed changes to college football are slow. Klatt laid out issues with radios that are solvable with the right individuals involved. The chaos caused by NIL, conference realignment, transfer portal, Michigan’s Sign Stealing, and so on result from a lack of a unified vision and body that isn't fit for what it is overseeing.
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You’re fine with an NFL team recording an opponents practice? What loopholes did Michigan utilize? The rules are very clear. There is no in-person/advanced scouting allowed and using technology to record an opponents signs is also against the rules.
 
i read a blurb that the ncaa won't approve helmet mics because they are worried that the mics will void the helmet warranties. this makes little sense to me because clearly the nfl has solved for it. also, expense is a bull**** argument too. with the money in the sport, it ought to be a no-brainer to do this at least in the power conferences .

also as a Dodger fan who suffered watching the cheating asstros illegitimately steal a world series from a far better team, i am not a fan of organized premeditated consipiratorial campaigns to cheat.

some staffer figuring out in the middle of a game that a sign means something or whatever is fair game. it is like tipping pitches or when the foot placement of a wideout tips off whether it is a run or pass.

this **** is entirely next level and likely criminal.

plus, jimmy deserves to get hammered.

carry on.
 
Buffman64 said:
Maybe not. Rumors that the computer fraud case involved hacking OSUs athletic department computer system.
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Honestly, that's hilarious. I mean, it's obviously cheating and apparently illegal as hell, but it takes "if you're not cheating, you're not trying" to whole new level.
 
Liver said:
i read a blurb that the ncaa won't approve helmet mics because they are worried that the mics will void the helmet warranties. this makes little sense to me because clearly the nfl has solved for it. also, expense is a bull**** argument too. with the money in the sport, it ought to be a no-brainer to do this at least in the power conferences .
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Klatt explains it perfectly. The NFL has one governing entity, a players association, and a process/procedure in place to negotiate with helmet companies around the warranty issues. The expense issue is also complicated because NCAA governs the sport, but they govern it and create policies that are the same at the FBS, FCS, D2 and D3 levels. He likened it to parenting an 18 year old the same way you parent a toddler. Obviously Colorado School of Mines shouldn't be governed the same way Ohio State and Alabama are.

Massive changes are needed in CFB, but the first one is a centralized and singular governing body for the P4 conferences. Once that's in place, they can start addressing all the individual issues this sport has.
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
Klatt explains it perfectly. The NFL has one governing entity, a players association, and a process/procedure in place to negotiate with helmet companies around the warranty issues. The expense issue is also complicated because NCAA governs the sport, but they govern it and create policies that are the same at the FBS, FCS, D2 and D3 levels. He likened it to parenting an 18 year old the same way you parent a toddler. Obviously Colorado School of Mines shouldn't be governed the same way Ohio State and Alabama are.

Massive changes are needed in CFB, but the first one is a centralized and singular governing body for the P4 conferences. Once that's in place, they can start addressing all the individual issues this sport has.
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re: the NCAA's one size fits all policies -- I would have thought (probably naively) that the "autonomous five" group could implement changes different than everyone else. did Klatt address why that wouldn't apply to mic'd helmets?
 
hokiehead said:
re: the NCAA's one size fits all policies -- I would have thought (probably naively) that the "autonomous five" group could implement changes different than everyone else. did Klatt address why that wouldn't apply to mic'd helmets?
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What happens when they're playing someone who isn't in a conference with the technology implemented? There are issues with either team having to go away from how they normally call plays and that's a competitive disadvantage.

Another issue which leads us to a super league that's not under the NCAA umbrella.
 
Buffnik said:
What happens when they're playing someone who isn't in a conference with the technology implemented? There are issues with either team having to go away from how they normally call plays and that's a competitive disadvantage.

....
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I guess I'd expect that to be a point of negotiation in the OOC contracts, a.la. which conference the refs come from
 
hokiehead said:
re: the NCAA's one size fits all policies -- I would have thought (probably naively) that the "autonomous five" group could implement changes different than everyone else. did Klatt address why that wouldn't apply to mic'd helmets?
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Each A5 conference is governed independently. They can't even agree on the same number of conference games, pooled TV contracts that align in length and amount, recruiting and transfer rules, etc.
 
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The Alabaster Yak said:
Each A5 conference is governed independently. They can't even agree on the same number of conference games, pooled TV contracts that align in length and amount, recruiting and transfer rules, etc.
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true. doesn't address my question in any way, but I certainly don't dispute it.

let me ask a more specific question

Do you know what, if anything, is stopping the B1G from autonomously implementing helmet mics?
 
Buffnik said:
What happens when they're playing someone who isn't in a conference with the technology implemented? There are issues with either team having to go away from how they normally call plays and that's a competitive disadvantage.

Another issue which leads us to a super league that's not under the NCAA umbrella.
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i wonder why it can't be done at the conference level for conference games. is oklahoma really disadvantaged if they can't use their mic helmets against eastern missouri state teachers college?
 
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