What things can CU do to raise its football prestige?

[Buffnik]

Obviously, winning a lot of games and doing it consistently over a number of seasons is #1 by a mile.

But with that, what actions need to be taken to get it there?

As I think about it, I think the big thing is having a big time stadium that we fill.

I believe that what RG has been doing with scheduling will pay major dividends with filling Folsom at a higher level. Hell, I looked into traveling back for the Nebraska game and the only options started at $450 a seat. I understand that's a unicorn due to the rivalry and the demand for tix with the Nub fans on top of the appeal of the game to CU fans. But playing schools in the future like KSU, Mizzou, Texas A&M and others also moves that needle in significant ways. Also, when we play a G5 team, making it against an opponent that draws interest (CSU or AFA) moves the needle.

But the next, most vital thing on this: remodeling the west side of the stadium with increased capacity.

CU has got to have a big time stadium that shows recruits and fans that it is among those 25 or so programs that legitimately compete for championships. That also means all the upgrades that we see in the best stadiums. Capacity in the 65k range by enclosing the NW corner and adding a 200 level along with a lot of premium seating and a team store/ restaurant.

The other part of this beyond the stadium is taking the game day experience to the next level. The tailgate area around the IPF is a huge improvement, particularly with bringing in the tents and the rentals. That success has been tremendous. The next level to this, though, is redeveloping the area around Boulder Creek into a tailgating area. We need to move our field sports down there with stadiums & parking for soccer and lacrosse. Pre-game on the creek has got to become a thing and it could become one of the top college game day events on any campus in America.

With that, the plans for a CU conference center and hotel on the Creek at Broadway could also kick things up in a big way by expanding game day activities that direction.

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

Win more.

 

[Not Sure]

I’ve been told that increasing capacity in Folsom is a terrible idea.

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

But the next, most vital thing on this: remodeling the west side of the stadium with increased capacity.

Capacity in the 65k range....

I like the vast majority of your posts Nik but I can't see this ever, ever happening. 50k is fine for us. Attendance across the nation has been decreasing for a decade, and CU already has a fan base that does not do a great job of showing up in down years or for mediocre games (which is not a knock against our fans - the mountains are enticing if you know the game is going to stink).

We are also in an NFL market, and we aren't going to keep the local, non-alumni fans engaged to the same degree/ percentage that teams in non-NFL markets will.

Simply put, I see no way we would ever need 65k seats anytime in the next 25 years, and probably not ever. If we have sustained success, better to consistently have a sold-out 50k+ crowd than to build to 65k and consistently see empty seats.

 

[Creebuzz]

I think Buffnik foresees the massive population growth in the front range, and if CU puts out a consistently good product and expands its fan base, then filling 65,000 seems very plausible to me. But, adding seats seems well behind a host of other capital improvements right now.

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

I think Buffnik foresees the massive population growth in the front range, and if CU puts out a consistently good product and expands its fan base, then filling 65,000 seems very plausible to me. But, adding seats seems well behind a host of other capital improvements right now.

I can see the logic, but the Front Range has been booming for more than two decades now. The people moving in have no connection to CU, and if they're casual football fans, they tend to become Denver fans.

Sure, winning will help. But even successful programs in likewise booming areas are seeing attendance declines.

 

[DrunkRalphie]

Coke and stripper recruiting parties.

 

[Creebuzz]

I can see the logic, but the Front Range has been booming for more than two decades now. The people moving in have no connection to CU, and if they're casual football fans, they tend to become Denver fans.

Sure, winning will help. But even successful programs in likewise booming areas are seeing attendance declines.

I think it takes longer than 20 years for the fan base to cement locally, really the 3rd generation, and Mike Bohn led CU had done itself no favors.

But I agree with you too, no need to go 65 until we regularly fill 50.

 

[Gary Indiana]

Let’s worry about selling out our current seating chart before we start talking about stadium expansion.

 

[DrunkRalphie]

But the next, most vital thing on this: remodeling the west side of the stadium with increased capacity.

Balch needed remodeling 30 years ago. I took my dad to a game a couple of years ago and he said he saw Neil Young in Balch in the '70s. Said it looks the same now as it did then. Not good.

 

[MtnBuff]

I like the vast majority of your posts Nik but I can't see this ever, ever happening. 50k is fine for us. Attendance across the nation has been decreasing for a decade, and CU already has a fan base that does not do a great job of showing up in down years or for mediocre games (which is not a knock against our fans - the muntains are enticing if you know the game is going to stink).

We are also in an NFL market, and we aren't going to keep the local, non-alumni fans engaged to the same degree/ percentage that teams in non-NFL markets will.

Simply put, I see no way we would ever need 65k seats anytime in the next 25 years, and probably not ever. If we have sustained success, better to consistently have a sold-out 50k+ crowd than to build to 65k and consistently see empty seats.

Agree that I don't think there will ever be enough ticket demand to justify 65k.

What I would favor investigating is a remodel of the west side along with Balch. Keep the structure of Balch and the facing like it is but put in some high quality seating, maybe even a balcony setup with a lot of the seats shaded and covered. Inside of Balch upgrade the concession options and put in a gathering space with large screen video of what is happening outside.

Overall attendance is going down across the country but a growing segment of fans is willing to pay more for extra space, protection from the elements, higher quality food and beverage options, etc. A lot of older, more financially able alums and fans would be willing to pay a premium to have these seats and the ability to come inside easily when it gets too hot or cold, wet, windy, etc.

 

[Not Sure]

I agree that 65K is a good goal. I also agree that it’s way too soon to be talking about a 65K seat stadium. I think we can get very creative with the west and northwest side of the stadium in ways that will allow for future seating expansion if/when the demand is there.

 

[tante]

Move visiting fans to upper level.

Actually now that I think about it more. Move the visiting fans and enclose the bowl and add a beer garden/ pavilion on the north West corner of the stadium above the seats. It would have a great view of the foothills north of Boulder.

 

[DBT]

Create a better game day experience. Improve concessions. Improve wi-fi. Get people into the stadium more efficiently. Upgrade the stadium and its facilities. And improve marketing. Make purchasing tickets easier. The web site sucks.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Move visiting fans to upper level.

This. Move them to the second level in the south end zone

 

[Duff Man]

Find the money to significantly upgrade the assistant coaching salary pool.

 

[Buffnik]

I think Buffnik foresees the massive population growth in the front range, and if CU puts out a consistently good product and expands its fan base, then filling 65,000 seems very plausible to me. But, adding seats seems well behind a host of other capital improvements right now.

That's why I wouldn't do an expansion first.

First for me would be taking care of a field sports complex & creek tailgating experience along with easy paths to Folsom from there.

Next step would be the renovation that encloses the NW (probably adds about 1,200 seats), fixes Balch (? on seats added from this) and adds the premium seating.

Then, it's about driving demand so that we can justify completing a 200 level on the west side so that we have 203 go as high as 214 while doubling its width. Along with that, a 202, 201 and 200 added in the NW area that are that same size. Each of those sections is about 35 seats per row and 33 rows for a total of 1,155 seats. The 3 new sections add 4,465. Expansion of 203 is another 13 rows plus widening from about 12 seats per row on average to 33 rows (that works out to [33 x 35 = 1,155] - [13 x 12 = 156]) for an increase of 999 seats there. That's going to end up in the 5,900 - 6,000 range of additional seats.

All of that would raise total capacity by 10k - 15k (depending on what the Balch part did).

Now, with the way things are going and the moves successfully made by others -- maybe the move along with that is to install chair back seating everywhere except student section and band area. That would probably reduce capacity about 10k or so (it's usually about a 15-20% hit to capacity).

At the end of the day with all that done, we'd have a 50-55k seat Folsom that was among the nicest stadiums in college football. The only way to go beyond that would be to expand the 200 sections in the South end zone. That would mean adding 13 rows x 35 seats per row for another 455 in each section. There are 10 of those sections, for 4,550 new seats. If you do it with chair back seats, you're still adding 4k or so to capacity. I'd do that.

Keep in mind that the cheapest CU sells a ticket is $40 plus another $40 in fees. Every 1,000 cheap seats for 6 home games is another ($80 x 1,000 x 6 = $480k) in football revenue plus whatever is spent by those folks in parking and concessions. Folsom capacity of 60k with all chair backs and more premium seating would mean $5-10M in additional revenue from average seat cost increasing. And that's before parking/concessions.

I don't buy that a winning product that was well marketed couldn't fill a stadium like that in Boulder.

 

[Medford M.]

Increasing seating is a terrible idea. College football isn't getting MORE popular, especially in the West, and the prices are just going to keep increasing, along with the fact that the home viewing experience eclipses the in stadium experience in a major way in all areas aside from ambience.

 

[MtnBuff]

Find the money to significantly upgrade the assistant coaching salary pool.

This is a bigger factor than many people think.

For a head coach making millions of dollars a year the cost of living at a particular school isn't a big deal.

For a career assistant salary versus cost of living make a huge difference. We already to my knowledge have most of the assistants living outside of the City of Boulder, housing is just to expensive. Even then Louisville or Broomfield are substantially more expensive that a lot of the college towns we are competing against.

For guys who move around as much as assistants do self-funding their own retirement is critical. With the lack of job security it is also important that they have some significant savings put away in case they are out of work for a year or two.

It is easy to see why a good assistant would be willing to move on from CU to a school that pays more or even pays similar salaries when they can put substantially more money aside for long term purposes.

 

[68buffs]

Never going to happen, nice vision though.

 

[Buffnik]

Increasing seating is a terrible idea. College football isn't getting MORE popular, especially in the West, and the prices are just going to keep increasing, along with the fact that the home viewing experience eclipses the in stadium experience in a major way in all areas aside from ambience.

So would you be about increasing the game experience (parking, traffic management, tailgating/ pre-game activities, seating options, concessions, wi-fi) while maintaining a 50-55k footprint?

I could actually get on board with that. It's pretty much what I'm suggesting other than nixing my South end zone idea (which would cut down on views if we did it -- pissing people off -- and would probably be expensive since it would cause the stadium to overhang Colorado Ave).

I think a big thing that would help with managing traffic might be connecting Folsom to 17th Street by having Stadium Drive connect to University Ave and possibly also to Pleasant Street. We don't take enough advantage of Boulder Creek and how special that is (tailgating should be happening along the creek path from 19th, maybe 17th, to Folsom). As much as Balch is important, re-development of this area is what I think can take game day to the next level. Further, taking care of the drivability across campus with a car route past Balch would open up its utility for additional functions and an actual restaurant.

 

[Big Jim]

Coke and stripper recruiting parties.

Didn’t work so well for Barnett.

 

[Not Sure]

I like Nics vision. The idea that attendance is dropping and therefore we should forget about the possibility of expansion seems defeatist to me. True, there are a lot of things that need to happen first, but ultimately, 65K is not too large. Instead of pricing people out of a smaller stadium, if the demand is there, we should be encouraging more folks to come by having pricing options that cater to all budgets. This all hinges on demand being there.

 

[Big Jim]

But the next, most vital thing on this: remodeling the west side of the stadium with increased capacity.

CU has got to have a big time stadium that shows recruits and fans that it is among those 25 or so programs that legitimately compete for championships. That also means all the upgrades that we see in the best stadiums.

Before thinking about adding capacity the EAST side of the stadium needs to be brought into the 21st century, specifically the bathrooms and concessions. The current bathroom and concession infrastructure is flat out embarrassing and straight out of Soviet central planning circa 1960.

 

[FLounder]

Win a consensus national championship.

 

[Buffnik]

Before thinking about adding capacity the EAST side of the stadium needs to be brought into the 21st century, specifically the bathrooms and concessions. The current bathroom and concession infrastructure is flat out embarrassing and straight out of Soviet central planning circa 1960.

Troughs, rust, etc. It's not a good look. Makes it more difficult to bring the whole family (some don't enjoy the experience as much as they could). And I think that the key to attendance is women. If my wife doesn't love going, it makes it a lot easier for me if I avoid that battle, save the money and watch at home.

On the same note, my vision would be to offer real premium value in the 100 sections (or even the lower half of 100s) so that most of the rest of the stadium could be less expensive. The model that seems to work is to give well-heeled folks a true premium experience -- they'll pay up for it. And then you fill the stadium with low-cost seats because that raises your profile, popularity and incremental revenue while also raising the premium experience with a loud, boisterous crowd (an "event") for those folks who will lay down a grand or more for a family day out at Folsom if it seems like the place to be.

With that model, I think we could consistently fill a 65-70k stadium if we were winning.

 

[SINKRATZ]

Find the money to significantly upgrade the assistant coaching salary pool.

This is a bigger factor than many people think.

For a head coach making millions of dollars a year the cost of living at a particular school isn't a big deal.

For a career assistant salary versus cost of living make a huge difference. We already to my knowledge have most of the assistants living outside of the City of Boulder, housing is just to expensive. Even then Louisville or Broomfield are substantially more expensive that a lot of the college towns we are competing against.

For guys who move around as much as assistants do self-funding their own retirement is critical. With the lack of job security it is also important that they have some significant savings put away in case they are out of work for a year or two.

It is easy to see why a good assistant would be willing to move on from CU to a school that pays more or even pays similar salaries when they can put substantially more money aside for long term purposes.

Mtn is like reverse Cliff’s Notes.

 

[chitownbuff]

Mtn is like reverse Cliff’s Notes.

More like a rolling hill than a mountain.

 

[hawg1]

Find the money to significantly upgrade the assistant coaching salary pool.

More money > better assistants > better recruiting > player development > more wins > better bowls > better exposure > more fans > more money.

Repeat.

 

[Buffnik]

Find the money to significantly upgrade the assistant coaching salary pool.

Sure. I'm not sure that anything would have a bigger impact on winning games and recruiting battles.

But there are really only 3 paths to being able to afford this -- and we need to pursue them all aggressively.

The first is a larger media distribution from our conference.

The second is maximizing event revenue from football home games, other events at Folsom, and MBB + other CEC events.

The third is doing a much better job with fundraising and a donor culture to increase revenues every year while building a huge endowment.

Possibly some more that could be gained with getting sports like WBB, VB, soccer and lacrosse to increase their incremental revenue so they lose less money. Possibly some more that can happen with sponsorships (e.g., could we do a home mountain with sponsorships for Ski like we've done for Golf?). But those first 3 things are where the real money is.

I know we agree that there are places that CU needs to spend money in order to make money & drive the prestige of the football program with the university riding those coattails to increased donations, applications, etc.

I don't think we can finance an increase to assistant salary pool, so my thought is that we have to increase revenues in order to take that to the level it needs to be. However, I'd assume that the FHCMM buyout money is earmarked for the football coach salary pool, so we'll see a nice increase when that comes off the books ahead of the other revenues showing much movement.