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2010: Talent Gain or Talent Drain?

Discussion in 'University of Colorado Recruiting Archive' started by Buffnik, Feb 2, 2010.

  1. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Here's the list of scholarship guys we have lost from last year's team:

    FB Jake Behrens (Rivals 3* in 2005)
    CB Cha'pelle Brown (Rivals 2* in 2006)
    DB Benjamn Burney (Rivals 2* in 2005)
    LB Marcus Burton (Rivals 3* in 2005)
    TE Patrick Devenny (Rivals 2* QB in 2005)
    P Matt DiLallo (Rivals 2* in 2005)
    SN Justin Drescher (Rivals 2* ATH in 2005)
    TE Riar Geer (Rivals 3* ATH in 2005)
    DT Taj Kaynor (Rivals 2* in 2005)
    LB Shaun Mohler (Rivals 4* JUCO transfer in 2008)
    RB Kevin Moyd (Rivals 2* in 2005)
    TE Devin Shanahan (Rivals unrated in 2005 - former walk on)
    LB Jeff Smart (Rival unrated in 2005 - former walk on)
    LB Bryan Stengel (Rivals unrated in 2005 - former walk on)
    DT Eric Lawson - Jr (Rivals 3* OL in 2006)
    RB Demetrius Sumler - Jr (Rivals 3* in 2006)
    RB Darrell Scott - So (Rivals 5* in 2008)
    DE Lagrone Shields - So (Rivals 3* in 2007)

    Do you think with the 2010 class we have more talent coming in or going out?
     
  2. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    great ****ing post.

    however, we are still trading mediocrity for mediocrity. That does look like a 3 and 9 class to me... don't see how we will improve on that with this one :cry:
     
  3. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    I think it is very similar.
     
  4. Darian3Hagan

    Darian3Hagan '89 Player of the Year Club Member

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    Talent same.
     
  5. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

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    I didn't realize Lawson left....I'd say the talent trade is no better than a wash...
     
  6. SanDiegoBuff

    SanDiegoBuff Club Member Club Member

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    You HAVE to say the talent going out far exceeds the talent coming in. We know what's leaving, we don't know what's coming in. It's a talent drain until these kids see the field against Big XII competition... or Toledo competition for that matter, and show they have what it takes.
     
  7. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    :yeahthat:
     
  8. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    Don't agree with that. Most of the talent leaving have been beaten out by guys that are younger. If you KNOW that the guy leaving can't play, it can be no worst than a push imo.
     
  9. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    that got me thinking. The talent we brought in here from 2004-2007 (4 classes) wasn't very good. "looks like a 3-9 class to me". I agree with that. But why then did we all expect to win 8-9 games this past year?
     
  10. White_Rabbit

    White_Rabbit Club Member Club Member

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    Because we had returning starters at a lot of positions and our 2008 season was riddled with infortunate injuries. We also had a very favorable home schedule and the easiest OOC schedule in years.
     
  11. BuffMania

    BuffMania Banned BANNED

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    Talent drain. I don't care about stars, I care about offers.
     
  12. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    For me, it was always about the favorable schedule. If not 8-9 wins, that schedule was at least tailor-made for a bowl game season.
     
  13. Buff_since76

    Buff_since76 Still a fan... Club Member

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    There are a few ways to look at the gain or drain argument. Look at who contributed what over their time here, and compare that to the potential of the class. There are a couple exceptions (of course) since DS, Shileds, and Mohler were only here for two years. Sumler and Lawson also leave after 3 years. Here is how I see it:
    QB – Lost
    None
    QB – Gain
    Nick Hirschman
    Automatic gain with a guy who is going to be getting reps this spring.
    RB – Lost
    Darrell Scott, Demetrius Sumler, Kevin Moyd, Jake Behrens
    RB – Gain
    Trea Jones, Tony Jones, & Justin Torres
    If we get one of these running backs to step up and produce to a speedy level then we have a gain. I know Scott is a 5-star, but he hadn’t produced on the field. If one of the Jones’s (or a combination) are able to gain 600+ yards next season (and Speedy’s productivity doesn’t fall) than it will be a big gain. Also, if Torres is able to pick up the short yardage first downs (3rd & 1 or 2) then we will have a big improvement over last season when Sumler wasn’t getting those yards and we never handed the ball off to Behrens.
    WR – Lost
    None
    WR – Gain
    Keenan Canty, (possibly Donnie Duncan & Cordary Clark)
    We have an automatic plus here. It is a position where we have needed bodies over the last few seasons.
    OL – Lost
    Devin Head (I know he didn’t play last fall, but his eligibility is now up),
    OL – Gain
    Kaiwi Crabb, Daniel Munyer, Eric Richter, Alex Lewis
    BIG GAIN!!! We continue to add o-linemen, and may have a Juco player who can immediately start at LG or C (a huge weakness in our line last hear). We also get to grey shirt a younger guy who will be able to have 5 springs to grow and develop.
    TE – Lost
    Riar Geer, Patrick Devenny, Devin Shanahan
    TE – Gain
    Helen Griffon, Kyle Slavin, Justin Favors
    We lose a quality staring TE, and replace him with #’s and potential. I would rather have Geir since we know what we get so we have a weakness, but we only need one guy to really step up to be = or a +. The TE position will be our biggest question mark going into 2010.
    LB - Lost
    Marcus Burton, Shaun Mohler, Jeff Smart, Bryan Stengel
    LB – Gain
    Lowell Williams, Evan Harrington
    We lose in numbers here. Mohler & Smart filled one LB position together. They should be replaced on the field by Major, but he isn’t in this class. Burton had a ton of hype going into the 09 season, and he played OK at times. Mainly he shared time with Sipili who will have to be the man in 10. If Lowell or Harrington becomes a quality starter then there is only a slight loss in talent, solely due to numbers.
    DL – Lost
    Taj Kaynor, Eric Lawson, Lagron Shields
    DL – Gain
    Kirk Poston, Chidera Uzo-Diribe
    We don’t add any DT’s, but since 2002 we have signed only 10 DT’s on signing day (and a few never made it to the BnG). We have potential and we didn’t lose any contributors. There was talk of Taj at the beginning of the season, but that lasted about 1 quarter of the CSU game. Potential over non-contributors is an upgrade in my book.
    DB – Lost
    Cha’pelle Brown, Ben Burney
    DB – Gain
    Jared Bell, (possibly Donnie Duncan & Cordary Clark)
    Big loss. The experience of the two starters is the most significant loss for the Buffs next season. Only time will tell if these recruits can step up and play.
    Special Teams – Lose
    Justin Drescher, Matt DiLallo
    Special Teams – Gain
    Justin Castor
    This is a toss-up. We have no idea what kind of kicker Castor is, but DiLallo left a lot of us wishing DS stayed on to punt. Also, a long snapper who is consistent is a great specialty player. We will have to see who steps up.
     
  14. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    great post... I see this as a push with the potential for more. the secondary and LB losses are huge here imo.
     
  15. buffs04

    buffs04 Well-Known Member

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    Calling the RB talent coming in better than the RB talent going out is a joke.

    Torres is much more likely than not to be a complete nonfactor.
    Trea Jones had 0 offers other than CU.

    Tony Jones appears to be more highly regarded than the other two players, but he certainly doesn't project as a superstar.

    Be positive all you want but to say we are upgrading at the RB position is complete nonsense.
     
  16. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    It sounds like he meant it from a productivity standpoint.

    2009 stats:

    Sumler: 128 rushing yards, 125 receiving yards, 0 return yards, 1 touchdowns
    Scott: 95 rushing yards, 35 receiving yards, 564 return yards, 0 touchdowns
    Behrens: 0 rushing yards, 47 receiving yards, 0 return yards, 1 touchdowns
    Moyd: 0 rushing yards, 0 receiving yards, 0 return yards, 0 touchdowns

    TOTAL: 223 rushing yards, 207 receiving yards, 564 return yards, 2 touchdowns

    His point was that one of the new recruits is likely to match or surpass that productivity this season (in his opinion), and then you still have the other guys and a bunch of years to look forward to.

    I can see disagreeing, but calling his point a joke seems way off base.
     
  17. Buff_since76

    Buff_since76 Still a fan... Club Member

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    So you think Torres will be worse at third and short than Sumler. I think that is a Joke. Sumler's ability to make the first guy miss was 0, he was tackled by the first guy every time. I also don't agree with your rational that he will be a bust simply due to the fact no one else offered is lame. If he can run between the tackles with power he will help the offense much more than Sumler or Moyd did.

    Last year CU ran for 1055 net yards, 804 of those from Speedy, and 61 net from Hanson (includes sacks). How do we say the talent that left is that helpful to the team?

    I understand Darrell Scott was a 5-star recruit with a ton of potential, but potential and $2 can get you a cup of coffee at starbucks. If you one of the backs can step up and get yards on first or second, and put us in reasonable 3rd down senarios, or is able to convert and get the team first down, then we have an upgrade.
     
  18. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    agreed with this analysis. The outgoing guys contributed almost nothing beyond pass blocking (sumler). However, the new guys all have issues, be it injury or academics or questionable talent. If even one of them ends up contributing tho, its a wash at worse.
     
  19. BuffMania

    BuffMania Banned BANNED

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    That says a lot about our team if we improved our talent with so many players that no other major schools wanted. Sad times.
     
  20. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    I doubt Torres ends up at RB.
     
  21. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    I also agree with this analysis :cry:
     
  22. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

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    Partly the schedule. Partly the talent that will be back next year that we'll be losing in the next 1-2 years. THOSE are the guys we need to be replacing now. We don't need to have true freshmen from the 2011 and 2012 classes needing to come right in and start when the current core of the team leaves....
     
  23. Bolond

    Bolond Member

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    Looking at the bright side, if some of these guys don't get admitted because of grades, it won't be the biggest loss in the world. I'm also excited about the strength of the guys that will be walking-on this year, Hawk has been doing wonders with them the past 4 years.
     
  24. SanDiegoBuff

    SanDiegoBuff Club Member Club Member

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    The talent leaving that wasn't beaten out by younger guys exceeds anything being brought in right now. I still don't know why I bother to try to argue with someone paid by Plati to monitor and post on this board though.
     
  25. ScottyBuff

    ScottyBuff Well-Known Member

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    Consider that we also are adding Toney Clemons at WR. I know he transferred in 2009 but we finally get him on the field in 2010.

    All-in-all the outgoing class had a few solid contributors and some potential with Scott but I don't think we are worse off. However the in-coming class has more potential than "talent" right now.

    Losing the leadership of Burney, Brown, Geer, and Burton is a big factor but realistically on an average year we should graduate many more impact seniors than that.

    The overriding factor for me is Hirschman, Slavin, Uzo-Diribe, Bell, and the OL additions are all good prospects at important positions for us. Castor coming in is a plus as well.

    Talent Gain, IMO.
     
  26. BuffMania

    BuffMania Banned BANNED

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    Here are there offers:
    Hirschman: Harvard
    Slavin: Syracuse
    Uzo: None
    Bell: Colorado State

    This is all according to Rivals. It's not like these guys had a lot of options. I could see teams missing out on a player here and there, but to suggest that we're getting a talent upgrade when we have so many athletes with such limited options is just a big stretch. At least that's the way I see it.
     
  27. ScottyBuff

    ScottyBuff Well-Known Member

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    I understand where you are coming from, but I don't feel that it applies to the original question. Comparing whether or not those players had better options or are considered "BCS" recruits doesn't mean they aren't talented enough to contribute to the team.

    Basically, while we lost some players, we didn't lose a tremendous amount due to the small size of the senior class (a lot less than a typical senior class). We gained depth at OL, which was absolutely crucial. We "lost" at RB, LB, and CB in the outgoing category, but gained in others via numbers.

    I'm not trying to sell this class as "great" or better than what I expected but we are comparing Barnett's last class against (possibly) Hawk's last class so really it isn't something that will matter too much in the long run.

    We did gain some football players in this class. By my eye Hirschman looks like a really good college QB. To me he is the best QB we have recruited to CU since possibly Ochs. I'm not going by Rivals or Scout just what I can see in his videos and measurables. Maybe he will pull an Ochs on us too and put egg on my face.

    Slavin can possibly contribute immediately. Uzo-Diribe might be a project, but I think is truly a stud DE waiting to happen and will really help us out in 1-2 years. Bell looks like a complete CB prospect that if needed to be pressed into service seems like he will step up the way Jimmy Smith has done for us over the years. Of course that is all "hope" but those guys have actual NCAA BCS level talent now and should hopefully continue to develop. Most of the rest of the players have to learn some technique, get bigger/stronger, etc. so naturally some will hit and some will miss and some will just fill a roster spot for a while.
     
  28. BuffMania

    BuffMania Banned BANNED

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    I'm not going by Rivals or Scout either. However, I think it says something when not a single FBS school offered him. Not 1. Not even a MWC or WAC or Sun Belt school.

    Could everyone be wrong? Sure, it's happened before. Is it likely? I surely don't think so.

    You've only seen the highlight videos of Nick. Most players look good in their highlight videos. But why did no one else think he was worthy of a scholarship? That's the burning question.
     
  29. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    For the most part, this class was lightly recruited, but you are being a bit unfair to the guys you highlighted here. Hirschman and Slavin would have had more offers if they had not committed early. I can guarantee you that. In fact, the Tennessee coaching staff was talking to Slavin in December. Uzo-Diribe had schools asking him to come visit in January.
     
  30. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    I think we got very lucky to get Nick. He was a late developer at a position that schools usually have selected their targets very early. He made a huge jump between his junior and senior year and thus was off the radar. He then committed very early to Colorado and made it clear he was absolutely committed meaning that other schools who would have come after him were chased off without expending a lot of time and effort on him.

    Even with all this some major programs came in on him late. I have no question that he could have gotten offers from some of these schools had he expressed any interest in them but he made it clear he was a Buff and thus no offers reported.
     

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