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Criteria for choosing a school

Discussion in 'University of Colorado Recruiting Archive' started by DBT, Jan 14, 2012.

  1. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    Reading DoWork's thread got me thinking (uh oh). I'm a project manager. When initiating projects one of the first steps is choosing the best alternatives. What we do is a value analysis. One process is called "Choosing by Advantages", or a CBA. What we do is develop criteria, create a matrix, and assign "points" based on importance for each criteria. One person I know actually went through this process in deciding on taking a promotion and ended up declining it. You know, pay vs family sacrifice.

    So, where was I? If you were a kid/parent choosing where to "take your talents," and went through the CBA process, what would your five criteria be and rank them in importance from 1 to 100. The total must equal 100. So, 10, 15, 15, 20, 40 would equal 100.

    Go to it. What would your top five criteria be and how would you rate them? Don't be biased. In other words don't have good old CU in mind when developing criteria. If I were a kid/parent doing this, I would develop the criteria, weight them, pick my five favorite schools and develop a matrix. I'd score each school from 1 to 5, or some range, for each criteria, add them up and the highest score wins.

    What are your five criteria and how do you rate them?
     
  2. 30Something

    30Something Distinguished Brotha Club Member

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    Having done this myself, a LONG damn time ago, I'll give you the criteria I used:
    30) Eduction: Specifically the quality of the program I wanted to major in. Caveat: I had no designs on becoming a pro athlete.
    30) Location: I did not want to be on the other side of the country from my family (and girlfriend who was a year younger than me), but I played with guys who had the exact opposite criteria
    20) Coaching Staff: This really boiled down to who I developed a connection with, and who I didn't. My problem was that the head coach that recruited me left before I arrived on campus. The guy they replaced him with was a nitwit, and a crappy coach.
    10) Teammates: However, back then I didn't have the same opportunity to connect with the team as kids do now. I got one recruiting trip where I met 5-6 guys, there was no email, facebook, twitter, etc. I actually would call people on their landline phones, and write mail which was delivered via USPS. Damn, I am old.
    10) Campus: This was not a huge consideration for me, but I was preferred a campus which wasn't too huge and spread out.

    Now, if I had to do it all over again:
    35) Eduction: Quality of the program I want to major in, and the school in general. Nobody should count on retiring with pro athlete money. Better get your learning on while you're there.
    25) Coaching Staff: Experience developing quality players and who I developed a connection with. Based on my experience, I would prefer a program that had lower likelihood of staff departures and/or dismissals.
    15) Location: I wouldn't care so much about how far the school was away from my family, but I would want to be near activities I enjoyed doing outside of school/sports.
    15) Teammates: These are the guys you're going to spend the next 4-5 years with, and be friends with for longer than that. A family atmosphere would appeal to me.
    10) Tradition: I don't think this is the right word, but I would go to a school I've always followed, supported, or had on my radar (in some way). Makes being an alum that much more fun.
     
  3. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    30Something, ****ing awesome! Oh, and if that was you peeping through my window last night, well, sorry you were so grossed out man. Fat old people aren't very, let's say, "entertaining."
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2012
  4. 30Something

    30Something Distinguished Brotha Club Member

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    No problem. Happy to provide some info, but I'm sure the criteria is different for every recruit. For example, neither of my parents went to college. If they had, I'm sure their school would have appealed to me too. At minimum, they would have been better prepared to help me work through the pros and cons of the decision points (although I probably wouldn't have listened to them anyhow).

    BTW you need to shave your back too. :lol:
     
  5. Creebuzz

    Creebuzz Club Member Club Member

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    I wish I could find the specific article, but this has been researched and regardless of what kids say, the top influencer for recruits is location #1 and win/loss/tradition #2. Sadly, things like academics and campus life are less important according to the research.

    Edit: here is the article abstract...

    http://jse.sagepub.com/content/9/1/67.abstract
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2012
  6. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    Interesting. I'd bet most recruits do not really project their decisions related to their present needs and/or future goals. Instead, they view their present circumstance. Too bad for them in some ways. But I'd bet if you interviewed them twenty years after the decision they'd tell you it worked out great. No matter the decision, no matter the school, no matter the proram's success, it works out great. Don't worry. Be happy!
     
  7. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Last year before signing day (December 2010) I did a blog on the impact the move to the Pac-12 from the Big 12 might have on recruiting.

    http://www.allbuffs.com/entry.php/95-Colorado-Football-Recruiting-Pac-12-Impact

    I went through a bunch of databases for that to be able to make some predictions, and one of the sources was spot on for this topic.

    The School of Economics at Mercer University developed a prediction model for where football prospects would sign. Here's what I wrote up from that:

    As they described their methodology:

    Then, over the next several years, they continually updated their model to improve their prediction accuracy. Every year from 2005 thru 2009, they have been correct on where the Rivals 250 prospects would sign -- with accuracy between 68%-73%. That means that about 30% of the time a prospect's decision is made based on things that the study cannot objectively quantify such as whether they liked a coach, are a legacy, like the uniforms, have a certain major, if the girls are pretty, etc. Those things are either subjective or the information wouldn't be available to the researchers.

    So what did they learn?

    Somewhat surprisingly, the following things don't matter (no statistical impact):
    • school’s graduation rate
    • the number of Bowl Championship Series (BCS) bowl appearances
    • the current roster depth at the recruited player’s position
    • the number of players from a specific college drafted by the NFL
    • the number of national championships won by a particular program
    Weird, huh?

    These things do matter, though:
    • Whether the athlete made an “official visit” to a specific college
    • Whether the school is in a BCS conference
    • The distance from the high school athlete’s hometown to a specific school
    • Whether the recruit is in the same state as a specific school
    • The final AP Ranking of a specific school in the previous year of competition
    • The number of conference titles a school has recorded in recent years
    • Whether the school is currently under a “bowl ban” for violating NCAA rules
    • The current number of scholarship reductions a school faces for violating NCAA rules (increases likelihood of signing)
    • The size of the team’s stadium (measured in terms of seating capacity)
    • Whether the school has an on-campus stadium
    • The current age of the team’s stadium
    ********************

    Obviously, a statistical prediction model can only deal with quantifiable data. Based on what I have seen from recruits over the years, some of the other thing that make a difference:
    • Player's relationship with coaching staff
    • Parents'/Advisors' relationship with coaching staff
    • Job security of coaching staff
    • How early the school offered
    • How hard and consistently the school has recruited the prospect
    • Friends who go or are going to the school
    • Whether the school has a good reputation in a particular academic major
    • Whether the player grew up a fan of the school
    • How nice the facilities are
    If it were me, all of that would be in the mix and it's a lot to consider. It's a tough choice. I'd probably start by eliminating all the schools that were in locations I didn't care for. Next, I'd eliminate the ones which didn't show the best earning potential from their degree programs I might be interested in. (Location was first, because if I loved a location there's a chance I'd want to build my adult life there and sometimes a degree that isn't as valuable nationally will have high value within the state due to networking opportunities.)

    From there, for me it would probably be a mix of a lot of things (coaches, program, opinion of family/advisors, etc.) and just go with the place that "felt right"... and then I'd pick CU. :smile2:
     
  8. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    The article you linked is the Mercer University group that I linked and used for my old blog & the above post.
     
  9. Burrito Palazzo

    Burrito Palazzo huff my smug Club Member

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    So you were right? I like the stadium on campus stat. It's too bad CSU had to commission the study to see why they suck. The other sad thing is they couldn't figure out how to do it themselves.
     
  10. manhattanbuf

    manhattanbuf Well-Known Member

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    Before I got into the private sector, my first career was as a high school teacher/coach. My students ran the gamut in their intellectual pursuits. Several of them went to ivies like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, etc. Others attended bigger schools like CU, University of Minnesota, FSU, UCLA, Cal, Wisconsin, Oregon, Kansas, Illinois, UC Santa Barbara, etc.

    The biggest things I found in their selection were....

    (1) Location. They wanted to be somewhere with action and fun things to do either at the school or in the surrounding community.
    (2) Academics for their major. This cannot be understated. If the school doesn't offer something that the student is interested in studying (or don't do it well), that's a problem.
    (3) Relationships. Whether they know people attending their school choice can be a double edged sword. Some kids want to venture out to a new place. Others want to stay close to home. By and large, having at least one or two friends going to your same school does help. A solid mentor in place, like a position coach, really helped out too.
    (4) Attractiveness of student population. Male students really hated schools without attractive talent in the student population. Though it's an academic powerhouse, many formers begrudged U. Chicago and MIT because of the dirth of cuties walking around campus.
    (5) Facilities. What are the on campus training sites like? What are the dorms like? What are the food service buildings like? These are big questions many were either turned off or turned on by in collegiate consideration.
     
    Buffnik likes this.
  11. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    No one has, directly, mentioned playing for your state university / loyalty. Hmm.
     
  12. manhattanbuf

    manhattanbuf Well-Known Member

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    This is because most kid's these days are not loyal to a place. They often have background living in different parts of the country or simply want to see something new. It is rare to go to a school because of legacy, especially when the legacy school may not offer the glamor or location they're after.
     
  13. DoWork

    DoWork Member

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    First of all, thank you for your thoughtful input as well as Buffnik's follow up. We did something similar to your recommendation but did not rate or "weigh" the items so this was a nice addition to the process and we'll borrow that if you don't mind.

    This is how I think he determined order so far:

    #1 Education (He's somewhat of a book-nerd) and his goal is to "make a difference" so that is important. He WILL leave with a diploma and pursue a masters at some point which for this generation is the new BA.

    #2 What is the overall college experience potential, which includes academic, football program and social opportunities. Hey, it's their 5 years. (As I am reminded occasionally...)

    #3 Number of surgeries and injuries in the last several season for the program. (He always asks how many surgeries the college performed for the previous season on visits.) His belief is that there is a direct connection between injuries/surgeries and the conditioning efforts the team participates in. The better physical condition you're in, the less chance of injury although it's still possible but the percentage is lower. He works out at least 5 days a week and takes Zumba 3 days a week for flexibility which is why he's 320 but looks 275. This item was not listed on any of the stats of recruits priorities in general.

    #4 Energy of the staff, connection of the team members and their connection to the coaching staff which ultimately is family for 5 years and support of the community.

    #5 Location and Coaching Staff. (Somewhat of a repeat but important.) Does the location provide social opportunities, does the stadium represent a first class program with potential? Nice locker rooms and weight rooms are nice but the those are the "work horses" and do not carry as much meaning as the people that fill them. On the point of coaches, does the position coach believe that the only way to effectively coach is to drop "F" bombs in every sentence? OK to be passionate and cussing is typical but do they follow up with HOW to correct what is not working and is there proper instruction to guide the player to be the absolute best they can be, to help them find their potential and take them to that next level? This is where the relationships are built. A coach (or school) that comes in early in the process has a much better chance than one that is late to the party unless the recruit has very few offers.

    Thank you for providing thoughtful insight. It has been very helpful and much appreciated.

    Raising our family we have stressed a few things; it's important to be part of something bigger than yourself and leave things better than you found them. I think all the factors listed in your comments tie into our philosophy.

    Thanks so much!
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012
  14. Burrito Palazzo

    Burrito Palazzo huff my smug Club Member

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    DoWork, I found a couple more wigs, a fake mustache, and some wayfarerer sunglasses. I was at a loss as to what to do with them, so I dropped them off at the DIA lost and found, they can be claimed by anyone accompanying a 320 monster who looks 275ish. Just sayin'.
     
  15. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Very interesting stuff, DoWork. Thanks for sharing. I hope Walker got the opportunity to speak with the S&C coaches. At CU, Blacken came with Embree from the Redskins and is very involved with the coaching staff. He's pretty progressive with a lot of what he does. It's been very different here from how S&C was done under Pittman before this year. Lots more focus on core strength, flexibility, position-focused training, speed/explosiveness and competition between position groups during workouts. Pittman was focused on olympic lifts and raw strength. As you can imagine, we had a lot of shoulder problems before this year.
     
  16. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    Interesting hearing how people picked schools when you always knew where you were going.
     
  17. 30Something

    30Something Distinguished Brotha Club Member

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    This is an interesting criteria. Strength and Conditioning coaches are absolutely an integral part of any program, but they seem to go unheralded. I know I never really considered it when I was making my decision. I guess my assumption was that anyone would be better than my HS gym teacher. :lol:
     
  18. Burrito Palazzo

    Burrito Palazzo huff my smug Club Member

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    Don't troll parents, jackass.
     
  19. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    Nah I'm being serious. I never had to put any thought into where I was going to school so it's interesting to see how they weigh certain things.
     
  20. Burrito Palazzo

    Burrito Palazzo huff my smug Club Member

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    Sorry, I thought you meant DoWork/WW always knew.
     
  21. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    Oh not at all. I would not troll a parent of a recruit, although I do believe that CU has all that DoWork was talking about :thumbsup:
     
  22. buffs04

    buffs04 Well-Known Member

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    Really?
     
  23. Creebuzz

    Creebuzz Club Member Club Member

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    Seems logical when you consider he's an engineer.
     
  24. NBDefektor

    NBDefektor Well-Known Member

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    wow, none of you have played NCAA '12 yet? What some of you have posted in 10 paragraphs can be figured out after 3 minutes in the recruiting part of the dynasty.

    school prestige
    school location
    campus environment
    coach's prestige
    program stability
    academics
    ...and a few other things.

    oh, and don't forget about making promises (i.e. no redshirting, beat your rivals, etc) to the recruits!
     
  25. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    :lol:
     
  26. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    :lol:

    What usually happens in these CBA deals is that the scorers have a preconceived opinion. What they do, then, is kind of manipulate the scoring to get the outcome they want. But doing what DoWork did makes a lot of sense. Develop criteria to narrow your list down if you have a lot of choices. And then get a good feel for the coaches, teamates, etc. and make a choice.
     

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