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Have I been too fair to Karl Dorrell?

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
Have I been unfair to Head Coach Karl Dorrell?

I don't know, but I guess a good place to start is with what my expectations were for a new HC hired at the time CU hired HCKD. I would say that I wanted another guy in the HCMT mold but that my general expectations were a notch or 2 above what I wanted HCMM to accomplish when he was hired.

HCKD is starting from a much better place than HCMM did, inheriting a 5-win type program instead of a 3-win program just coming off a 1-win season (that 1 win a gift).

I expected HCKD to stabilize the program, build a professional organization, identify and coach up talent, and get CU back on track to being what it once was.

I expected some growing pains considering that so many guys were going to be under the 2nd or 3rd HC since arriving at CU with some having seen even more position coaches or coordinators... but I also expected that the program would not drop again with this becoming a regular bowl participant starting at least by year 3.

Honestly, with a record of 8-10 after 2 seasons we are about where I'd expected. That win % over a 12-game season puts you at 5.33 wins per year. Moreover, 6-7 in conference games is probably a bit better than I expected.

Recruiting has held up except for 2021 - a Covid year when they couldn't go on the road recruiting or host visitors for the most part. Tough for a staff that hadn't built recruit relationships for a couple years.

247sports Team Rankings & Composite
2019 (HCMM/MT): #44 composite (84.91 avg)
2020 (HCMT): #36 composite (85.63 avg)
2021 (HCKD): #64 composite (83.92 avg)
2022 (HCKD): #47 composite (85.64 avg)

So, on record and recruiting he has actually met my expectations. He's been on a pace a bit above 5-win seasons and has recruited at the HCMT level.

But I'm down on the program. Last year was so historically bad on offense with departure through graduation or transfer of just about everyone I considered a playmaker, that I felt hope die. The conference realignment and NIL situations were like a double-tap to make damn sure hope was truly dead.

Some of that is on HCKD. Last year was the worst coaching job of his career. But other things are outside of his control.

Maybe I'm unfairly projecting what I'm feeling onto HCKD?

On building an organization, I think Turley was the best S&C hire CU has ever made and he's got more assistants to train the team than I think we've ever had.

With the coaching staff, HCKD inherited some multi-year contracts which I don't believe he was allowed to terminate. Within the context of University-wide belt tightening and the AD taking an $18M Covid loan from the Pac-12 (paid back over 7-8 years through reduced conference distributions to CU), HCKD was handcuffed.

He now has built what I believe is the best overall coaching staff CU has had in well over a decade (2003?) despite those forced delays. Good recruiters and all guys you'd expect to see on a P5 staff. But HCKD also made some inexplicable coaching hires at OL and TE which are completely on him. And the coordinators are underwhelming until proven otherwise.

So, overall, I'm pleased with the organization he has built so far. It's met expectations even with some serious frustrations.

Really, everything so far adds up to me being in a weird place. I should be encouraged, even excited. I should be sitting here thinking that there are damn good reasons - rough things happening outside HCKD's control - for me to be more patient and accept the build might be a year delayed.

Am I being unfair to KD?

I was crushed by how things went down with HCMT. I was excited and feeling momentum. The program was making the moves with aggressive recruiting & a promoter for a coach. Then it suddenly imploded.

I was crushed that RG went from an aggressive HC model of HCMT to making a run at a similar guy in Sark, to settling on HCKD. It felt like giving up and accepting mediocrity. With the contract HCKD was signed to, it felt like RG just wanted stability and to ease into retirement without having to go through another HC search & hire - a fully guaranteed deal that made HCKD un-fireable for 4, maybe 5 years. RG's fire seemed gone, so how could I keep my own?

But do those things have anything to do with KD or am I only projecting my emotions (frustration and anger trending to accepting things might be hopeless) onto him unfairly?

This season will tell a lot. I'm out of faith or blind optimism. I'm no longer willing to project so much emotion into how I evaluate the CU football program. I'm trying to be objective and emotionally distanced.

Looking introspectively with objectivity, I should be more supportive of HCKD and see how things play out this year while also being more supportive of this year's team. Most importantly, I should make sure I get back to having fun. Sports is supposed to be fun and I haven't been allowing myself to feel up to it enough.

I think the passion has been beaten out of me. I'm afraid to care so much again. I won't let myself until the program turns a corner and re-establishes itself as a winner. And it's not HCKD's fault it's not there yet.

I'm pretty sure I've been unfair to Karl Dorrell.

I plan to do better and I plan to have fun this year. Maybe HCKD will even turn in a season that pulls me out of the funk I've been in about CU Football.
 
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well, this is definitely a "prove it" year for CU. kd has "his" staff and they are locked and paid competitively. this is year 3 of his tenure. we should see a big jump this year.

but, many of us are not feeling that-- for me, it is almost entirely about all the guys who transferred out. we lost just a ton of home grown starters, many of whom i thought could take a big leap this year and maybe become stars. without the transfer portal, i would have expected a bowl game as a minimum. instead it feels like we are in rebuilding mode. again. lots of new guys, young guys, new schemes, etc.

tucker leaving when and how he did ****ed us as the players that were developing under him and then kd did not react super well and that clearly contributed to the mass exodus. the other thing that hurt is the guys that left that i thought were on the verge of being really good for us landed at good programs. this wasn't just some mass trend out based on a coaching change.

i don't hate kd-- he seems like a pretty good guy to me and i do believe he knows football and how to build a staff. i wonder if structurally and reputatonally we are so broken that we have just become a farm team for what should be peer programs. that's tough to get over.

there is a simple way for this all to get fixed--- win football games. now, and a lot more than people expect. use hope to recruit and build some momentum. if it doesn't work out, this staff has a lot of millions of guaranteed money to soothe them. we, the die-hard fans, on the other hand, will as always carry whatever **** a coaching staff leaves behind them on us.
 
Have I been unfair to Head Coach Karl Dorrell?

I don't know, but I guess a good place to start is with what my expectations were for a new HC hired at the time CU hired HCKD. I would say that I wanted another guy in the HCMT mold but that my general expectations were a notch or 2 above what I wanted HCMM to accomplish when he was hired.

HCKD is starting from a much better place than HCMM did, inheriting a 5-win type program instead of a 3-win program just coming off a 1-win season (that 1 win a gift).

I expected HCKD to stabilize the program, build a professional organization, identify and coach up talent, and get CU back on track to being what it once was.

I expected some growing pains considering that so many guys were going to be under the 2nd or 3rd HC since arriving at CU with some having seen even more position coaches or coordinators... but I also expected that the program would not drop again with this becoming a regular bowl participant starting at least by year 3.

Honestly, with a record of 8-10 after 2 seasons we are about where I'd expected. That win % over a 12-game season puts you at 5.33 wins per year. Moreover, 6-7 in conference games is probably a bit better than I expected.

Recruiting has held up except for 2021 - a Covid year when they couldn't go on the road recruiting or host visitors for the most part. Tough for a staff that hadn't built recruit relationships for a couple years.

247sports Team Rankings & Composite
2019 (HCMM/MT): #44 composite (84.91 avg)
2020 (HCMT): #36 composite (85.63 avg)
2021 (HCKD): #64 composite (83.92 avg)
2022 (HCKD): #47 composite (85.64 avg)

So, on record and recruiting he has actually met my expectations. He's been on a pace a bit above 5-win seasons and has recruited at the HCMT level.

But I'm down on the program. Last year was so historically bad on offense with departure through graduation or transfer of just about everyone I considered a playmaker, that I felt hope die. The conference realignment and NIL situations were like a double-tap to make damn sure hope was truly dead.

Some of that is on HCKD. Last year was the worst coaching job of his career. But other things are outside of his control.

Maybe I'm unfairly projecting what I'm feeling onto HCKD?

On building an organization, I think Turley was the best S&C hire CU has ever made and he's got more assistants to train the team than I think we've ever had.

With the coaching staff, HCKD inherited some multi-year contracts which I don't believe he was allowed to terminate. Within the context of University-wide belt tightening and the AD taking an $18M Covid loan from the Pac-12 (paid back over 7-8 years through reduced conference distributions to CU), HCKD was handcuffed.

He now has built what I believe is the best overall coaching staff CU has had in well over a decade (2003?) despite those forced delays. Good recruiters and all guys you'd expect to see on a P5 staff. But HCKD also made some inexplicable coaching hires at OL and TE which are completely on him. And the coordinators are underwhelming until proven otherwise.

So, overall, I'm pleased with the organization he has built so far. It's met expectations even with some serious frustrations.

Really, everything so far adds up to me being in a weird place. I should be encouraged, even excited. I should be sitting here thinking that there are damn good reasons - rough things happening outside HCKD's control - for me to be more patient and accept the build might be a year delayed.

Am I being unfair to KD?

I was crushed by how things went down with HCMT. I was excited and feeling momentum. The program was making the moves with aggressive recruiting & a promoter for a coach. Then it suddenly imploded.

I was crushed that RG went from an aggressive HC model of HCMT to making a run at a similar guy in Sark, to settling on HCKD. It felt like giving up and accepting mediocrity. With the contract HCKD was signed to, it felt like RG just wanted stability and to ease into retirement without having to go through another HC search & hire - a fully guaranteed deal that made HCKD un-fireable for 4, maybe 5 years. RG's fire seemed gone, so how could I keep my own?

But do those things have anything to do with KD or am I only projecting my emotions (frustration and anger trending to accepting things might be hopeless) onto him unfairly?

This season will tell a lot. I'm out of faith or blind optimism. I'm no longer willing to project so much emotion into how I evaluate the CU football program. I'm trying to be objective and emotionally distanced.

Looking introspectively with objectivity, I should be more supportive of HCKD and see how things play out this year while also being more supportive of this year's team. Most importantly, I should make sure I get back to having fun. Sports is supposed to be fun and I haven't been allowing myself to feel up to it enough.

I think the passion has been beaten out of me. I'm afraid to care so much again. I won't let myself until the program turns a corner and re-establishes itself as a winner. And it's not HCKD's fault it's not there yet.

I'm pretty sure I've been unfair to Karl Dorrell.

I plan to do better and I plan to have fun this year. Maybe HCKD will even turn in a season that pulls me out of the funk I've been in about CU Football.

If you have to ask.....
 
My biggest problem with him is not being able to see that Rodrigue was the worst Oline coach in college football and "forgetting" to recruit his his current players. I'm sure others can provide more examples as to why he might be inept.
Remember him crowing to the media after that brilliant loss to A&M. Chiding us like he knew something we didn’t.

Turns out the team and the coaching were actually garbage like we all thought.
 
I feel like he walked into a super ****ty situation. We were all underwhelmed as **** when we heard his name, let alone that he was being hired. I think I can usually talk myself into most coach hires for a year or two at least. KD, not so much. I was mega underwhelmed and all I could think was hopefully he'll only get 3 years rather than the standard 5. When the news hit that RG gave him the contract he did, I think my dim CU fandom was just about stamped out. I rarely visit the recruiting forum now, I barely even care that fall camp has begun.

He kinda won us over with a decent 2020. I think this season was just a joke for most teams. We probably got lucky playing several teams from CA where they were limited in practicing and what not, and got us a big W over Arizona who followed up the close loss to us by losing to ASU 70-7. We got dumped on by Utah and Texas

Then came year 2 of maybe the most inept offense I've ever seen and I have been mostly awake and sober as a CU fan from 2005-2019. KD being an offense guy gets extra negative points here from me. The QB struggling to throw for over 100 years in the year 2021 is just pathetic. Any good will earned in 2020 was lost for me with last season.

He hired an oddly good staff of position coaches, except we somehow maybe didn't improve at OC at all. Maybe this is what Sanford needs, to roll into a ****ty situation so he can't just steer it off a cliff.

The entire roster apparently left in the offseason, which doesn't really speak well for KD.

Recruiting feels really meh to me, but I guess average star wise it's ok.. Sure feels like we're back in MM territory rather than MT territory. Granted, add recruiting in 2020 to the list of ****ed up things KD inherited. Considering I rarely venture into the forum, I'm probably not up to date on the recruiting

Overall, KD walked into a ****ty situation, but is a walking ****ty situation himself. I can't wait for him to be gone along with RG. Everyone associated with the KD hire needs to be fired and banned from campus, maybe even charged with crimes of some sort if possible.
 
My opinion...we have a really good staff overall now... we're just missing a good head coach. KD is a great dude, and he's a good position coach. He has no fire though and was the definition of a "safe" hire. Recruiting is alright, and I do think the team will actually be a little better than we expect this year. I think 4 wins and being generally competitive with everyone would be far better than any of us expected after the mass exodus, but I think that's what we'll be this season.
 
I feel like he walked into a super ****ty situation. We were all underwhelmed as **** when we heard his name, let alone that he was being hired. I think I can usually talk myself into most coach hires for a year or two at least. KD, not so much. I was mega underwhelmed and all I could think was hopefully he'll only get 3 years rather than the standard 5. When the news hit that RG gave him the contract he did, I think my dim CU fandom was just about stamped out. I rarely visit the recruiting forum now, I barely even care that fall camp has begun.

He kinda won us over with a decent 2020. I think this season was just a joke for most teams. We probably got lucky playing several teams from CA where they were limited in practicing and what not, and got us a big W over Arizona who followed up the close loss to us by losing to ASU 70-7. We got dumped on by Utah and Texas

Then came year 2 of maybe the most inept offense I've ever seen and I have been mostly awake and sober as a CU fan from 2005-2019. KD being an offense guy gets extra negative points here from me. The QB struggling to throw for over 100 years in the year 2021 is just pathetic. Any good will earned in 2020 was lost for me with last season.

He hired an oddly good staff of position coaches, except we somehow maybe didn't improve at OC at all. Maybe this is what Sanford needs, to roll into a ****ty situation so he can't just steer it off a cliff.

The entire roster apparently left in the offseason, which doesn't really speak well for KD.

Recruiting feels really meh to me, but I guess average star wise it's ok.. Sure feels like we're back in MM territory rather than MT territory. Granted, add recruiting in 2020 to the list of ****ed up things KD inherited. Considering I rarely venture into the forum, I'm probably not up to date on the recruiting

Overall, KD walked into a ****ty situation, but is a walking ****ty situation himself. I can't wait for him to be gone along with RG. Everyone associated with the KD hire needs to be fired and banned from campus, maybe even charged with crimes of some sort if possible.
Kind of how I feel, but I think he gets too much grief for recruiting and is, for some reason, held to this Mel Tucker standard that was mostly a facade in hindsight, aside from like Gonzo and Rice.

Regardless, as you said, he was dealt a really ****ty hand, but he has also said and done some dumb **** that hasn’t changed the narrative.

In general, yes, I feel like fans, in particular this website, have been unfair to him. Covid season or not, he did lead a team QB’d by Sam Noyer to a 4-1 regular season. Last season sucked. I’m willing to see what happens this year and what purging the toxic locker room culture can do.
 
Kind of how I feel, but I think he gets too much grief for recruiting and is, for some reason, held to this Mel Tucker standard that was mostly a facade in hindsight, aside from like Gonzo and Rice.

Regardless, as you said, he was dealt a really ****ty hand, but he has also said and done some dumb **** that hasn’t changed the narrative.

In general, yes, I feel like fans, in particular this website, have been unfair to him. Covid season or not, he did lead a team QB’d by Sam Noyer to a 4-1 regular season. Last season sucked. I’m willing to see what happens this year and what purging the toxic locker room culture can do.

I think with MT there's a bit of rosy colored glasses from myself and others remembering the days where there was hope rather than only despair.

Eyeballing his big class, headlined by Clayton Gonzo Rice and Jason Harris sure feels a lot better than anything KD has rolled in. Rating wise I guess KD has hauled in dudes that aren't far from that level, 87ish to 90ish, but he certainly hasn't hauled in headliner types. Maybe the bottom has been better. The bottom of MT's class was pretty woof level. Lichtenhan, Stacks, Louis Passarello? If MT were still here, hopefully that wouldn't have been the norm.

That said, rather than KD doing better than we're giving credit, I think it's more a situation that MT wasn't as good as we want to recall and KD is continuing the mediocrity we've grown accustomed to.
 
I think with MT there's a bit of rosy colored glasses from myself and others remembering the days where there was hope rather than only despair.

Eyeballing his big class, headlined by Clayton Gonzo Rice and Jason Harris sure feels a lot better than anything KD has rolled in. Rating wise I guess KD has hauled in dudes that aren't far from that level, 87ish to 90ish, but he certainly hasn't hauled in headliner types. Maybe the bottom has been better. The bottom of MT's class was pretty woof level. Lichtenhan, Stacks, Louis Passarello? If MT were still here, hopefully that wouldn't have been the norm.

That said, rather than KD doing better than we're giving credit, I think it's more a situation that MT wasn't as good as we want to recall and KD is continuing the mediocrity we've grown accustomed to.
Bit unfair to Lichtenhan to dog him like that. We might not have elite O-line talent, but he's probably running 2nd team this year with the potential to start at some point down the road. He may, just may, not suck.
 
Bit unfair to Lichtenhan to dog him like that. We might not have elite O-line talent, but he's probably running 2nd team this year with the potential to start at some point down the road. He may, just may, not suck.

Equally unfair to assume I know who is running 2nd team OL. For all I know, Stacks is the starting RB and Pasarello is the starting TE :ROFLMAO:

Here's what I do know, the national pubs and writers seem to have us penciled in for 3 wins, so whoever recently recruited and is currently recruiting probably didn't/isn't doing a very good job on that front
 
Equally unfair to assume I know who is running 2nd team OL. For all I know, Stacks is the starting RB and Pasarello is the starting TE :ROFLMAO:

Here's what I do know, the national pubs and writers seem to have us penciled in for 3 wins, so whoever recently recruited and is currently recruiting probably didn't/isn't doing a very good job on that front

SECOND TEAM ALL-BUFF OL!
 
Sorry for the mental
masturbation im horny GIF
.

I promise next week to set the tone for TCUwith a proper preview.
big brother pop GIF by Big Brother After Dark
My wife gets pissed when I ask this, But I'm going to ask you the same thing. Nik is your period starting in the next day or so?
 
Life as a buff fan is easier (maybe even better) once you realize who KD wants to be (who he respects)… IMO, it’s David Shaw.

Where did KD send his son to play? Stanford. Which former strength coach did he hire? Turley, from Stanford. Who does he recruit? High character guys that are good in the classroom… and he basically never plays the games required to recruit the “me first” but super talented recruit (which is why he didn’t mesh well with so many of MT’s recruits and he let them leave without too much effort to keep them).

If he wins, this will be a satisfying way to win… because CU would be winning the “right way” but I don’t think he is a “win at all costs” guys. He thinks morals and character are more important. It seems honorable and everyone who knows him well seems to have positive things to say about KD. I don’t know if it’s enough to win consistently, but I certainly don’t expect KD to change his approach.
 
I really wanted to like KD. I mean, I love the Buffs, and I wanted to rationalize loving the hire. I remember arguing with manhattanbuff that maybe it was possible that the guy was a good coach but just had bad luck (and that is why he sucked his entire career). But that was based on numbers. I didn't really know him. Not that I know him well now. But I know him well enough to know that I don't like him. And well enough to know that recruits and their parents probably don't like him that much either (at least not nearly as much as the other guy recruiting them). And well enough to know that there is no f*cking chance he is the person to resurrect this program.
 
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