1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

How to win without bluechip recruits

Discussion in 'University of Colorado Recruiting Archive' started by Buffnik, Feb 13, 2015.

  1. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,521
    Likes Received:
    16,126
    http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?storyId=12314536

    ESPN profiled TCU, Missouri and Michigan State (with reference to some others). Great read. Philosophically, it mirrors a lot of what we've heard HCMM saying: multi-sport athletes, finding their right position, development, work ethic, team first, staff continuity, etc.
     
    Goose and The Ogre like this.
  2. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    48,411
    Likes Received:
    4,428
    Realistically, it's the only option we have. We aren't going to out-recruit people. That simply isn't going to happen with the program in it's current state. So in order to become relevant again, we have little choice but to follow this model. Make no mistake, it's the model we're following, we just haven't seen any tangible results yet. We knew what we were signing on for when we hired MM. Or, at least we should have known.
     
  3. The Ogre

    The Ogre Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Messages:
    3,127
    Likes Received:
    692
    Good read, thanks Nik. It's full of stuff that's gets dismissed by a lot of people here, but it makes enough sense to me. I agree that we're stuck in that model for now, but look forward to adding some blue-chip kids to the mix in the not-too-distant future.
     
  4. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    48,411
    Likes Received:
    4,428
    This quote caught my eye:

    There's a lot of sense in that comment. You need difference makers, but you can't have a team filled with them. You need a team filled with guys who know what they're doing and are always in the right place at the right time doing the things you need them to do. I don't know if we're there yet or not, but in this last class, there are three, maybe four guys who can be classified as "difference makers". Montez, Carr, Falo and Lynott. The team needs those four guys to live up to their potential, but just as importantly, the team needs the other 14 guys in the class to be solid, smart and motivated football players. Once we get that, we'll be on to something.
     
    The Ogre likes this.
  5. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    10,142
    Likes Received:
    1,607
    Good QB and some freaks at WR, DE and CB (true studs with God given ability you can't coach).
    Everyone else does their job and there is depth and solid play. That would make us a pretty good team.
     
  6. Bufffan68

    Bufffan68 Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2014
    Messages:
    4,172
    Likes Received:
    735
    What? I thought by some posts on this board that we're doomed unless we can recruit like USC! The ONLY way to turn around a moribund program is the way it's been done by countless others (including Mac) at other schools. How many blue chip guys want to come to Colorado, or Duke, or KState? Zero or near that. I am all aboard with Mac...just waiting to see the Ws now.
     
  7. Bufffan68

    Bufffan68 Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2014
    Messages:
    4,172
    Likes Received:
    735
    I like this quote: "At Michigan State, Missouri and TCU, one of the common denominators is that the same head coach has been in place for at least eight seasons and has been able to maintain a level of staff continuity."

    Coach Mac is going into his third season with nearly the same staff, and the replacement staff are a huge step up. I believe RG sees these other programs and realizes the need for continuity while building, so I see Mac going his full 5 years unless the floor drops out from underneath.
     
  8. skibum

    skibum Peed in your Cheerios. Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,019
    Likes Received:
    1,195
    The other thing I like about that comment is that it plays to one of our natural advantages: altitude. Barnett used to talk about knowing that if we were at home and the game was close going into the fourth quarter that he was always pretty confident of pulling out the win, because our guys would simply outlast the other team.

    Make no mistake though, you still need X number of difference makers. I think X is larger than 2 or 3, and I'm not sure we're there yet.
     
  9. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    39,586
    Likes Received:
    4,558
    Interesting article. Not sure I see the parallels to here, but hopefully I am wrong.
     
  10. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    48,411
    Likes Received:
    4,428
    I think having 2-3 difference makers in a class is what he's talking about. Fields is a difference maker (or at least should be), Gillam is a difference maker. Crawley is a difference maker. I agree that we don't have enough, but I believe we're getting closer.
     
  11. fatbuff

    fatbuff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    7,680
    Likes Received:
    674
    Who said anything about recruiting with USC? I'd settle for not competing with Weber State for recruits. Those teams listed in the article do win recruiting battles with other P5 teams.
     
  12. RalphieSpeaks

    RalphieSpeaks Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,558
    Likes Received:
    135
    They do now but did they when the coaches first got there? Maybe....maybe not.....not going to go through the rivals database to find out. Point is a rebuild takes place in stages. First stage was stop sucking so bad and compete in games. Now it is on to the next stage.
     
  13. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    48,411
    Likes Received:
    4,428
    We do too for the premier players in the class. Lynott, Falo and Carr had plenty of other P5 options.
     
  14. Yung Buffalo

    Yung Buffalo Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1,866
    Likes Received:
    937
    Your Weber State comments are hyperbolic and overplayed. It's getting really tiring.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    39,586
    Likes Received:
    4,558
    One other thing I would add is posters acting like Shay Fields and Patrick Carr are blue chip prospects need to slow their roll. Both are composite mid 3* players, which underscores how we can/should be getting more players on their level.
     
  16. Bufffan68

    Bufffan68 Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2014
    Messages:
    4,172
    Likes Received:
    735
    I was exaggerating a bit to make a point, but the WS point was kinda googy. Anyway, looking down our list of recruits, I'm fairly happy. Some guys should be able to contribute immediately, others are projects. I read or heard somewhere that Mac has only lost 3 kids to attrition in his classes. Need low attrition if his plan is to coach some of these kids up in S&C and on the field.

    The article mentioned that teams like Oregon and TCU don't routinely have top 10 classes despite their high rankings. They have a system that works and recruit to that system. My belief is Mac has a similar system. It seems everything is heading in the right direction...now the Buffs gotta win baby!!!
     
  17. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,521
    Likes Received:
    16,126
    Exactly. Where I believe CU needs to be is to fill its classes with that level of player while sprinkling in some guys the coaches find like a Tupou, Gordon, Gillam or Tuiloma along with landing 1-3 of the 4* types. That's a class in the high 20s or 30s and if CU can do that consistently then we'll be able to play with anyone.
     
  18. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    39,586
    Likes Received:
    4,558
    Sounds good. And just to be clear, I was not downplaying the ability of either Fields or Carr. Both were legitimate top 100 players in big-time football states. You can win recruiting those types of players regularly.
     
  19. WizzersGhost

    WizzersGhost Banned BANNED

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,492
    Likes Received:
    56
    FIFY.

    The fact that only a handful of programs are highlighted in this article, empasizes the point that not all coaches are great evaluators and not all set up to view each player they would like in person.

    When I last coached, I had an assistant who could spot talent unfailingly at try-outs, even among kids. I let him choose my teams at an open draft after try-outs, when I was out of town, on two different occasions. Both times he picked up kids who ended up All Stars, (6 of 8, then 8 of 11), though he was not even a good athlete and could just play the game we were coaching, at a mediocre level. But he sure could break down the skills needed and just knew what to look for on the field.

    Guys like him are extremely rare; would seem that MM is like that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2015
  20. fatbuff

    fatbuff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    7,680
    Likes Received:
    674
    Put me on ignore, like I do you.
     
  21. lawdogg

    lawdogg Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,085
    Likes Received:
    407
    ???
     
  22. fatbuff

    fatbuff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    7,680
    Likes Received:
    674
    You can hit "show quote" to see what dumbass' say.
     
  23. lawdogg

    lawdogg Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,085
    Likes Received:
    407
    Learned something new today, thanks.
     
  24. SINKRATZ

    SINKRATZ Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    5,156
    Likes Received:
    1,150
    Its a good article, but the schools mentioned are still on a whole other level than we are recruiting-wise. These schools recruit very well, they're just not pulling in top 20 classes to compete with the elite recruiting schools. I don't think this is some justification of our recruiting - none of these schools are recruiting at the bottom of their conference. I think it shows that if you can recruit in then middle of your conference you can win if you get the right guys that fit your system. We're not quite there yet IMO.
     
  25. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,521
    Likes Received:
    16,126
    I look at it more like Pinkel and Patterson had a certain recruiting philosophy they used to build up their respective programs. As they've gotten better, so have the recruiting classes. But they still don't recruit within the elite rankings and have refused to compromise on the principles that have gotten them to their current level.

    Where I see the parallel is with philosophy. CU's at a much earlier stage of the build cycle than those programs.
     
  26. SINKRATZ

    SINKRATZ Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    5,156
    Likes Received:
    1,150
    Totally makes sense. I agree, I don't think even under the best circumstances that CU will ever recruit regularly with the elite programs - I think if we can get to a point where we expect to be in the top half of the Pac12 every year and are pulling in classes ranked somewhere in the 20-40 range every year, that's good enough for us to be a very good football team if we're getting the guys that fit our system. I see schools like Michigan State as a very good model for us.
     
  27. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Messages:
    26,383
    Likes Received:
    2,318
    I agree with the general premise, and think we are building that way.

    When M2 got here we had a lot of guys on the roster who either didn't have the motivation to be P5 players or didn't weren't athletic enough to keep up with P5 players. A lot of the kids he has been recruiting are guys who may not be the outstanding kids that everyone salivates over but they aren't going to embarrass us either.

    We can, should, and are also looking for those standout difference makers as well but for right now it is a major improvement just to have a roster made up of mostly kids who belong on a field against PAC12 athletes. With those guys we can start to win some games which will open the door to recruiting more af the standout type kids.

    The program that I look at that I would like to see us model ourselves after for the immediate future is Wisconsin. They get some blue chip kids, especially now that they are often contending for conference championships but the core of their team is made up of kids who they recruit with the intention of playing them 2-3 years in the future. They bring in a lot of linemen who are tall and athletic but 20-40lbs under what other schools want. They put them in the weight room, work on their fundamentals, and a few years later they are in an NFL camp ahead of some kids who had more notice out of HS.

    The big hitch to this whole thing of course is that we need to start winning some games. Doesn't have to be lots of them right away but we need enough wins to convince the kids we want that more are coming in the future.

    Compared to M2s first year the offense is light years ahead of where it was. As much as we give Neinas grief our special teams have made significant advances, not great but not losing us games either. The big area that we haven't seen that step up is on defense. With a better coaching staff and more and more mature athletes I am hopefull that this year this is where we see the big jump. Just based on last year if our defense had been able to reduce the average points allowed by 7-10 points where would we have ended.

    If we do start to win some games I think we will see the staff stick to their recruiting strategy but more of the recruits will be players that our competing schools also were after.
     
  28. PAHIBuff

    PAHIBuff Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,717
    Likes Received:
    346
    Cool article, but while CU's recruiting is upticking a bit, we are not anywhere near the recruiting level of TCU, Missouri, or Michigan State. Im still a huge MM fan and think that things will progress over time, and maybe soon. I especially like the veer towards getting much better in the running game, the hire of Jim Leavitt, and the recent moves towards getting bigger at LB.
     
  29. White_Rabbit

    White_Rabbit Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Messages:
    12,281
    Likes Received:
    881
    are you buffclass90?
     
  30. The Ogre

    The Ogre Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Messages:
    3,127
    Likes Received:
    692
    :thumbsup:
     

Share This Page