Sure seems like it would be, the thing that still sickens me is that the guy sees this going on and does nothing to stop it. Tells joe pa and even though he reports it, NOBODY calls the cops or follows up on this.
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JoPa and his entire staff should be fired
- Thread starter Wyo Buff
- Start date
Sure seems like it would be, the thing that still sickens me is that the guy sees this going on and does nothing to stop it. Tells joe pa and even though he reports it, NOBODY calls the cops or follows up on this.
I figured you did. You made a declarative statement that they weren't close friends at the end. By "the end", were you referring to Sandusky's final years as an assistant, when Sandusky retired in 1999, after the 2002 incident, or after the current investigation became known to Paterno & PSU in 2008?
Thanks.
Edit: Damn. Sandusky, his wife and an unidentified friend all tried to talk to Victim 7 before he testified? WTF?
Im the exact same way and the fact these people have just went on with their lives for the past damn near decade like nothing happened is ****ing pathetic.
The Guest
Guest
@BigBang:
Do you believe we have a moral obligation as a society to protect our children?
That's what this discussion is about.
Is it sufficient to fullfill some perfunctory obligation to tell a superior and get on with your life? Or is there a higher standard? Is that higher standard to exceed the boundaries of protocol and protect children? Isn't that a part of leadership? Do do the right thing at all costs?
There is likely plenty of blame to go around, but our focus is on Joe Paterno because he is regarded as a community leader. He failed the challenge of that responsibility.
Sometimes it's difficult to do the right thing in the moment. It would have been easier to forgive him (for me) if sometime during the last nine years he'd stepped up and said, "I'm having troubles living with myself, and I need to come clean..."
But that never happened, and time ran out to do the right thing.
Again. Do we have the responsiblity to do the right thing at all costs? Can we agree that protecting our children from sexual predators is the right thing?
Do you believe we have a moral obligation as a society to protect our children?
That's what this discussion is about.
Is it sufficient to fullfill some perfunctory obligation to tell a superior and get on with your life? Or is there a higher standard? Is that higher standard to exceed the boundaries of protocol and protect children? Isn't that a part of leadership? Do do the right thing at all costs?
There is likely plenty of blame to go around, but our focus is on Joe Paterno because he is regarded as a community leader. He failed the challenge of that responsibility.
Sometimes it's difficult to do the right thing in the moment. It would have been easier to forgive him (for me) if sometime during the last nine years he'd stepped up and said, "I'm having troubles living with myself, and I need to come clean..."
But that never happened, and time ran out to do the right thing.
Again. Do we have the responsiblity to do the right thing at all costs? Can we agree that protecting our children from sexual predators is the right thing?
I´d like to add the condition: Unless it directly endangers my life or the life of relatives etc.
JimmyBuff
Well-Known Member
I'm guessing they are people in the 2nd mile that also covered up Sandusky's actions.
Well said. Hell, I found a black lab wondering on the road, yelled at it and it cam over and got right into the car,checked the tags and took it back to it's owner. If I saw this old scumbag raping a 10 year old, i'd blast him and get the kid out of there, call the cops and end this sick man from doing it again.
bigbang2
blindslighted
I agree with everything you said. But keep in mind innoccent until proven guilty, we don't know all the facts. The real question is why didn't the WR coach and the Janitor go to the police , why didn't anyone at admin office go to the police and risk a huge lawsuit and maybe criminal charges from the police. We don't have all the facts.
MrFrumpylane
Well-Known Member
Considering that this man continued to be stubborn about retiring within the past decade while having this skeleton in his closet tells me that he is an arrogant SOB who thinks he is above it all. **** that guy.
The Guest
Guest
Like I said. There is likely plenty of blame to go around.
The Guest
Guest
That's up to personal decision. I'd imagine OUBuff has a strong opinion about doing the right thing, even when faced with self-peril.
Protecting the family is another matter, of course.
I did the wrong thing when I was 18. I didn't have the courage to confront somebody who was assaulting a woman. It was my first day away from home, and I didn't have the character or self-fortitude to intervene and get my ass kicked (probably) because I was scared. That was over 23 years ago, and it still haunts me.
I have gotten my ass kicked for intervening in domestic violence since then. I've also intervened on several occassions where I didn't get hurt. But at some point, I had to make a promise to myself that I would always intervene, no matter what. I just wish I'd done the right thing the first time.
it is, but it´s one condition where I´d be inclined to give someone a pass or not do what I think is "right" myself.
BTW, I am not thinking physical altercations here (of course, they can be lethal also), but rather criminal stuff where there´s a big chance someone is going to go after your life if you do what you deem to be the "right" thing.
But then I might be influenced by Hollywood here.
OUBuff
American
The "system" didn't fail these boys... Men with zero ethics or courage failed these boys. Count the revered jopa among them.
Idot Buff
Guest
Pretty shocking some of the views in this thread....I am with you Luke.
You may be the dumbest poster on this site.
The Guest
Guest
Greg Brown goes man-to-man coverage with a couple of young, slow DBs against USC's receiving corps, and the man should be fired, on the spot in the middle of the season!
Joe Paterno appears to be protecting an at-large child molestor while providing him access to facilities to commit his crimes, and it's time to slow down. Let's not all rush to judgment here!
Idot Buff
Guest
Paterno needs to be taken to the wood shed. Even if you believe that the grand jury report is correct and he legally did what he was supposed to do in 2002, his lack of action since that time is criminal. The rapist was continually on campus, had an office, was working out, and continued to be around children, and Paterno did nothing about it? And to see the idiots last night rallying around his house in support? Sickening.
Swish
Half a bubble off
I find it difficult to put together the rational of most of the people involved in the scandal. I see it as a complete fail, the system, individuals, you name it. The one consoling aspect of this is that the prosecutor appears to be pursuing this with an appropriate zeal although the end result will likely be a punishment that falls short of what my own personal standard for punishing animals of this nature should be. And believe me I can think of a lot of fitting punishments in my darker moments.
I can't think of a scenario where I would choose to only watch and walk away if I saw a child being raped. But in this day and age no one will accept responsibility for anything. Anyone who had knowledge of this crime that didn't make it there personal responsibility to protect children and seek justice should be fired and come under the scrutiny of the legal system. If the story on Paterno's role and failure to do more than he did is accurate he is no legend to me - he is a bum, a chump. And the administrators who buried this are a disgrace to the human race.
I can't think of a scenario where I would choose to only watch and walk away if I saw a child being raped. But in this day and age no one will accept responsibility for anything. Anyone who had knowledge of this crime that didn't make it there personal responsibility to protect children and seek justice should be fired and come under the scrutiny of the legal system. If the story on Paterno's role and failure to do more than he did is accurate he is no legend to me - he is a bum, a chump. And the administrators who buried this are a disgrace to the human race.
This = Moral relativism. Frank's viewpoint is protected in this country but so is our right to feel a bit of nausea over its application to a case involving the rape of a young child. My view of this has nothing to do with whether Paterno violated the law or not. I believe he had a basic human and moral responsibility to ensure that this type of behavior stopped and that no more children were put at risk. I also would speculate that Paterno's contract with Penn State, which states obligations which go beyond Paterno's responsibility to obey the law, requires that his actions as leader of the Penn State football program accord with a higher standard of moral conduct and leadership. FIRE HIM, FOR CAUSE, IMMEDIATELY.
You can question as long as you want if what Paterno did was legal, in my mind as an educator it wasn't. You a have a legal obligation to protect children.
Beyond that there is no question, morally to use the excuse that he informed his "superiors" and to leave it at that is beyond forgiveness. We are talking about children getting raped and the old slimebucket not doing anything about it. A crime was committed and reported to him. His obligation was to call the police, period. No university (or company, or organization) policy takes precedence over the law. This is especially true since the GJ report indicates that he had at least some knowledge of other similar incidents but even if he didn't you call the police.
This may never be proven but my opinion is that Paterno was at the head of an organized cover-up. They know who and what Sandusky was but decided to sweep it under the rug because to report it would result in PSU being linked to a child rapist and they didn't want that media attention. To them the name of the university was more important than keeping children safe so a slimeball not only wasn't reported but was given continued access to the university facilities and allowed to associate himself with the university name.
I know that there are a huge number of people associated with the university who are absolutely sick to their stomachs over this situation, I thought Matt Millen was going to throw up all over the ESPN set at he thought about it. It is a shame to see those people hurt but the people involved in protecting the reputation of the football program over the safety of the children need to be called on the carpet, exposed for the twisted slimeballs they are, and stuffed in a hole someplace. The entire athletic department, anyone involved or associated with this disgusting behavior needs to be fired for a lack of morals and cleansed from the situation. No golden parachutes, no on campus offices, not even a ticket to a free university event.
Paterno was at the center and point of any decision that even remotely impacted the football program at PSU, there is simply no way that he was not aware and involved in the decision not to report Sandusky to the authorities. Everything was done to protect the image of the university and Paternos legacy. Now both will be forever painted with being the place and coach that put football in front of the lives of innocent children, may they rot in hell.
Beyond that there is no question, morally to use the excuse that he informed his "superiors" and to leave it at that is beyond forgiveness. We are talking about children getting raped and the old slimebucket not doing anything about it. A crime was committed and reported to him. His obligation was to call the police, period. No university (or company, or organization) policy takes precedence over the law. This is especially true since the GJ report indicates that he had at least some knowledge of other similar incidents but even if he didn't you call the police.
This may never be proven but my opinion is that Paterno was at the head of an organized cover-up. They know who and what Sandusky was but decided to sweep it under the rug because to report it would result in PSU being linked to a child rapist and they didn't want that media attention. To them the name of the university was more important than keeping children safe so a slimeball not only wasn't reported but was given continued access to the university facilities and allowed to associate himself with the university name.
I know that there are a huge number of people associated with the university who are absolutely sick to their stomachs over this situation, I thought Matt Millen was going to throw up all over the ESPN set at he thought about it. It is a shame to see those people hurt but the people involved in protecting the reputation of the football program over the safety of the children need to be called on the carpet, exposed for the twisted slimeballs they are, and stuffed in a hole someplace. The entire athletic department, anyone involved or associated with this disgusting behavior needs to be fired for a lack of morals and cleansed from the situation. No golden parachutes, no on campus offices, not even a ticket to a free university event.
Paterno was at the center and point of any decision that even remotely impacted the football program at PSU, there is simply no way that he was not aware and involved in the decision not to report Sandusky to the authorities. Everything was done to protect the image of the university and Paternos legacy. Now both will be forever painted with being the place and coach that put football in front of the lives of innocent children, may they rot in hell.
Wow, so he gets to finish the season under his own terms with praise and accolades for a job well done? You've gotta be kidding.
I can think of a few people this post applies to.
You think if we'd played zone it would have been better and we'd have won the game? Whoever said that was nutts.
We suck so bad were putting hookers out of work. We are so riddled with injuries weve resorted to putting 2nd and 3rd string offensive players on defense. Its just not in the cards for the Buffs this year. If Embree thinks Brown should go than he will go. In my mind they deserve 3 recruiting cycles (not including the last one) and 3-4 seasons to show us.
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Absolutely unreal that PSU would ever let him coach another game. I'm sure they'll throw a big retirement party for him, too. Make sure he has access to facilities after he retires, etc. 
He (along with all the other ****bags in this sordid story) should be canned immediately and banned from campus for life.
He (along with all the other ****bags in this sordid story) should be canned immediately and banned from campus for life.
Do the stripey doughnuts keep you up at night from time to time?
somebody
Well-Known Member
I don't know the law in Pennsylvania, but if teachers are held to mandatory reporting, coaches should be too. They are, in effect, teachers and have the same access to students. And I'm equally unsure that simply telling a superior is enough, legally. Do you really believe simple reporting completes their responsibility for due diligence? I'm sure their defense attorney would agree, but a judge/jury may not. Of course, nobody's going to charge the old man - the whole situation just reeks.
I'm not sure what that would accomplish - none of these guys have a full sack.
So I've spent quite some time reading up and listening to opinions of this over the last 24 hours. Enough to make me want to puke. And at the risk of rehashing a lot of feelings on this thread - holy **** this whole thing demands axes fall all over State College.
I have to admit, the Gary Barnett experience has made me extremely suspicious of the media in these situations. When everyone jumps to one place this quickly, I tend to want to not jump there, because that's what ****ed us in the first place. But, once I read/saw/heard more about it, here are my thoughts:
1. There HAD to be a cover-up. The pieces of the puzzle don't fit any other way. Sandusky was next in line to be HC at PSU, he was only 54, his defense was one of the best in the nation, and he suddenly retires? And now we find out it was shortly after someone caught him molesting a kid? No way that's all coincidence. Then you have McQueary. I don't know why that guy didn't stop the rape in process, it's been discussed to death here and I won't go into it now, but the fact that he somehow went from GA to a position coach is again too much of a coincidence. There's just no way I can believe that the two had nothing to do with one another. Just those two things are enough to implicate many of the people in the football program and the athletic department at large, imo.
2. If you believe that there was a cover-up, obviously the entire football staff and the majority of the AD staff have to go. There are probably going to be some innocent people caught up in the football staff purge, but there is no way that PSU can even begin to remove the stain with a single person retained from that staff.
3. Joe Pa's role to me is still mysterious. It is becoming more and more obvious to me that at the very minimum, he is guilty of grossly mismanaging his program. I would really like to know what exactly McQueary said to him, what he said to the AD, and what he knew about Sandusky's actions prior. It seems to me that, if you take McQueary's word (and I don't know why you wouldn't at this point), Joe Pa was probably told something more graphic than 'horsing around in a shower'. I don't know if McQueary said what I probably would have said - I would have been extremely explicit - but it seems that Joe Pa, if we take him at his word, watered it down - a lot. If that is taken together with prior knowledge of Sandusky's proclivities, then Joe Pa's actions start to become not only fireable, but potentially criminal.
4. The timing of this information coming out is highly suspicious. That's another thing that bothers me tremendously. It seems highly unlikely to me that this 'secret' grand jury would just so happen to finish up right after Paterno sets the all-time wins record. It seems to me to be another piece in this puzzle that tells me that there was a massive cover-up. During the 'scandal', there were multiple times that I wished that Boulder embraced CU and CU football specifically the way that other college towns do. Now, while I wish there wasn't such an difficult relationship between the city and school, I can see why you don't want it to be the other way, either. I don't care that Joe Pa and PSU football defines State College, but it's obvious that the people there do. You can see how **** like this happens, when an entire community treats all these people like gods. They start believing they are gods, and that their institutions are more important than anything else, even little kids' lives.
5. The NCAA's reaction to this will be interesting. As has been said before, the NCAA doesn't really have a lot of jurisdiction in this regard, because it doesn't really involve the areas that the NCAA is supposed to police. I have seen people calling for probation, penalties, even the death penalty. That's bull****. Everyone involved with this needs to be punished, and Jerry Sandusky needs to go to jail for his short layover before he goes to hell, but only a moron thinks that any of the student-athletes need to be punished. They're going to be punished enough, having to deal with all of this ****. I wouldn't be surprised to see a ton of kids transfer, and PSU recruiting is going to suck for years from now. But for those kids who are stuck there for the next 1-4 years, the NCAA doesn't need to add to their problems by adding sanctions.
6. Just heard of Joe Pa's retirement release. That pisses me off. If he's resigning right now, it's because he obviously has accepted that he did something wrong. If he does realize he did something wrong, he needs to quit today. No graceful exit. Just take a hike.
I have to admit, the Gary Barnett experience has made me extremely suspicious of the media in these situations. When everyone jumps to one place this quickly, I tend to want to not jump there, because that's what ****ed us in the first place. But, once I read/saw/heard more about it, here are my thoughts:
1. There HAD to be a cover-up. The pieces of the puzzle don't fit any other way. Sandusky was next in line to be HC at PSU, he was only 54, his defense was one of the best in the nation, and he suddenly retires? And now we find out it was shortly after someone caught him molesting a kid? No way that's all coincidence. Then you have McQueary. I don't know why that guy didn't stop the rape in process, it's been discussed to death here and I won't go into it now, but the fact that he somehow went from GA to a position coach is again too much of a coincidence. There's just no way I can believe that the two had nothing to do with one another. Just those two things are enough to implicate many of the people in the football program and the athletic department at large, imo.
2. If you believe that there was a cover-up, obviously the entire football staff and the majority of the AD staff have to go. There are probably going to be some innocent people caught up in the football staff purge, but there is no way that PSU can even begin to remove the stain with a single person retained from that staff.
3. Joe Pa's role to me is still mysterious. It is becoming more and more obvious to me that at the very minimum, he is guilty of grossly mismanaging his program. I would really like to know what exactly McQueary said to him, what he said to the AD, and what he knew about Sandusky's actions prior. It seems to me that, if you take McQueary's word (and I don't know why you wouldn't at this point), Joe Pa was probably told something more graphic than 'horsing around in a shower'. I don't know if McQueary said what I probably would have said - I would have been extremely explicit - but it seems that Joe Pa, if we take him at his word, watered it down - a lot. If that is taken together with prior knowledge of Sandusky's proclivities, then Joe Pa's actions start to become not only fireable, but potentially criminal.
4. The timing of this information coming out is highly suspicious. That's another thing that bothers me tremendously. It seems highly unlikely to me that this 'secret' grand jury would just so happen to finish up right after Paterno sets the all-time wins record. It seems to me to be another piece in this puzzle that tells me that there was a massive cover-up. During the 'scandal', there were multiple times that I wished that Boulder embraced CU and CU football specifically the way that other college towns do. Now, while I wish there wasn't such an difficult relationship between the city and school, I can see why you don't want it to be the other way, either. I don't care that Joe Pa and PSU football defines State College, but it's obvious that the people there do. You can see how **** like this happens, when an entire community treats all these people like gods. They start believing they are gods, and that their institutions are more important than anything else, even little kids' lives.
5. The NCAA's reaction to this will be interesting. As has been said before, the NCAA doesn't really have a lot of jurisdiction in this regard, because it doesn't really involve the areas that the NCAA is supposed to police. I have seen people calling for probation, penalties, even the death penalty. That's bull****. Everyone involved with this needs to be punished, and Jerry Sandusky needs to go to jail for his short layover before he goes to hell, but only a moron thinks that any of the student-athletes need to be punished. They're going to be punished enough, having to deal with all of this ****. I wouldn't be surprised to see a ton of kids transfer, and PSU recruiting is going to suck for years from now. But for those kids who are stuck there for the next 1-4 years, the NCAA doesn't need to add to their problems by adding sanctions.
6. Just heard of Joe Pa's retirement release. That pisses me off. If he's resigning right now, it's because he obviously has accepted that he did something wrong. If he does realize he did something wrong, he needs to quit today. No graceful exit. Just take a hike.