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Keenan Stevens was tipping Cal defense

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by buffaholic, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    I wasn't going to post this as I didn't know for sure if the staff knew about it, but the shift at center tells me they do, and I'm not tipping anything now with the switch.

    Rewatched the game tonight on DVR with some friends (we enjoy pain). Looked like the defense knew the snapcount. Sure enough - look no further than our center's head.

    From the shotgun, he ALWAYS dipped his head to look back at the QB. When he raised his head, the snap followed a brief moment later. By the 3rd series, the defense was coming full blast as though they knew the snap. Every time he peaks back, the timing is EXACTLY the same.

    Appears our coaches picked up on it late in 1Q, because with the start of the 2nd quarter, Keenan didn't move his head, but he resumed doing it later in the quarter. Ditto the 3rd quarter. That's as far as we got on the DVR.

    I just noticed on the front page that Iltis will replace Stevens. I believe this could be the issue. He reverted back to it again and again during the game.

    Put a fleet guy at DE and speed rush him when he knows the count and it's a tough one to stop him........ It's the little things I guess.

    If you got the game still on DVR, check it out. It's 100% of the time when he dips his head. And he dips his head 100% of the time from the shotgun in the 1Q and reverts back to it often after that. Pretty much every down Hansen is under big pressure including his sack/fumble.... The defense knew the count...
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2010
  2. UrbanaBuff

    UrbanaBuff Member

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    You are a regular ol' gumshoe.
     
  3. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Great info.

    Rep
     
  4. Scotch

    Scotch Registered User Club Member Junta Member

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    This may explain Solder's struggles. Dude seemed to be a step slow all game.
     
  5. Idot Buff

    Idot Buff Club Member Club Member

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    Whew. I can rest easy now, knowing that by replacing Stevens, the team is back on track.
     
  6. MiamiBuffs

    MiamiBuffs Wᴉɐɯᴉ qnɟɟs Club Member

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    The center looks back when in the shotgun to make sure the QB is ready before snapping the ball. QBs often stomp one foot as the cue they are ready. In practice, the center should look back up and snap the ball or count down in his head (on 2, on 3, etc) while the QB tries to do something to draw the defense off (loud count, fake audible, gesturing). Others have pointed out, since your into rewatching it, that when Hansen goes under center we ran almost everytime and when he was in the Shotgun we threw it. Thats a pretty dead give away to the defense what were gonna do. Moreso than giving away the snap.

    It's no secret that we are not well coached and that we have issues on the OL.
     
  7. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    Amazing. I started rewatching the game last night, but didn't get far. It needs to be in small doses, I think. But I will look for this.
    Rep for your endurance.
     
  8. TheEvilBeak

    TheEvilBeak Member

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    Why Occam's Razor wasn't applied earlier to this team is beyond me.
     
  9. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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    I played center in HS ball and always had to dip the head to see the QB's hands and once they moved it, you have to move that head back up for safety reasons when the QB lines up in the shotgun. There is no reason Stevens couldn't throw the timing off but you have to wonder about the playclock. If the playclock wasn't an issue...it's clearly the coaching that is subpar.

    But not running the ball out of the shotgun formation is also a dead giveaway...again, POOR COACHING.
     
  10. Darian3Hagan

    Darian3Hagan '89 Player of the Year Club Member

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    1 center away form beating Cal. Damn.
     
  11. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    Just a little thing that needs some cleaning up.
     
  12. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    I have to challenge you guys on the "always ran from under center" theory. I didn't count that up but we ran and passed it seemed to me. I'm pretty confident that if someone counts the plays it wouldn't be too far out of balance.

    One thing for sure is that running plays worked much better from under center than they did from the shotgun. Think about this for a minute before you discount this.

    From the gun, there is no snapcount (crowd noise).
    The QB signals he is ready and the center needs to snap it before the clock runs out, but not always with the same timing.
    The O-Line is looking for the snap before they move. The defense has picked up on film when the snap is coming and they move first.
    Good luck opening holes that way.

    The staff should have seen this. The Center must have a slight count from the time he lifts his head until he snaps. 0.5 second one time. 2 seconds the next time, etc....

    Watch the replay guys. 100% of the time from the gun, we snap the ball like clockwork.
     
  13. tante

    tante Club Member Club Member

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    great job Monk, I mean Buffaholic. Our coaches are so pop warner it is funny. Hawk has no ****ing clue how to run an offense.
     
  14. SanDiegoBuff

    SanDiegoBuff Club Member Club Member

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    Just one head bob away from that being a completely different game. :rolling_eyes:
     
  15. GoBuffs08

    GoBuffs08 Well-Known Member

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    As said by many others, the fact that we always run under center, and always pass in shotgun is the bigger issue.

    It would have been nice to see our crack staff do anything to get TH some more time to pass the ball. Maybe try some roll out or anything that didn't say I'm going to be standing in this exact spot to pass, please come and crush me.
     
  16. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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    As my HS did, why not go with a silent count? It worked wonders.
     
  17. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

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    Doesn't anybody ever wonder why it's always the other team's coaches figuring stuff out before ours, and then CU reacts. What would happen if it were EVER the other way around? These guys are so overmatched it is pathetic.
     
  18. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    17-34 and you wonder about this?
     
  19. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

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    Not really, just venting....
     
  20. Ruckus

    Ruckus Peep my words. Club Member

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    Don't we know the snap count too? See, if you are better than the other team, you can tell them what you are going to do, then still do it. I agree this puts us at a disadvantage and we can't afford that, but we should still be able to block them even if they come a split second early.
     
  21. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    No. there is no snap count out of the shotgun. It's a visual only (due to crowd noise).

    So in theory, the center is the only player that knows when the snap is coming. This puts the OLine and Dline on level field.

    however, if Cal picked up on this "plain as day" tendency, then they had a HUGE advantage. The Oline is waiting to see it, but the Dline knows it.

    This is a huge deal. It's also something they look for in Pop Warner every Saturday morning.
     
  22. Ruckus

    Ruckus Peep my words. Club Member

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    Makes sense. Whelp, [the situation] let's fix that ****, dawg. [/the situation]
     
  23. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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  24. Ruckus

    Ruckus Peep my words. Club Member

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  25. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    sorry should have been more clear, Dan knows, it is a little thing, they are already fixing it.

    [​IMG]
     
  26. Ruckus

    Ruckus Peep my words. Club Member

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    Perfect!! I expect we'll have it all fixed up in practice and never see the changes on the field. That's how we roll, (dawg).
     
  27. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

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    I'm not sure the coaching staff picked up on it and changed anything at all! I now believe that any "adjustments" I saw are explained by:

    Evidently, this whole "visual" thing only is used when the crowd noise is a factor. So rather than there be an adjustment made in the 2nd quarter that didn't stick, it was more likely that the Cal crowd quit screaming at us, enabling an audio snap count. Thus Keenan doesn't look back and there is no tipping going on.

    So pretty much, anytime we've been on the road for God knows how long, with the crowd noise being a factor, astute defenses have been getting off the ball with a big advantage vs. the Buffs. Can't wait for the next road game.

    By the way, please someone, correlate what I am saying here with your own Video. If you have footage from 2009 at KSU or other road games, please look at this.
     
  28. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    A halfway competent coaching staff not only recognizes this, but uses it to their advantage. Get a couple offsides penalties and then the D-Line is on it's heels. But that sh*t don't play in Boulder.
     
  29. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    this certainly could be born out with our innate ability to score gargbage points, although it wouldnt explain the strong start against texas.
     
  30. Fight CU

    Fight CU Club Member Club Member

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    even a blind squirrel finds an acorn sometimes
     

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