1. Admins are aware of the issue today with site responsiveness and have implemented a fix. It may take 1-2 days for it to be rectified, however.

OL recruiting - a big problem

Discussion in 'University of Colorado Recruiting Archive' started by sackman, Feb 19, 2012.


  1. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    42,988
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Thurston, Callahan, Kozan, O'Connor... Now Fox. This isn't an isolated thing anymore. It's a trend. A very worrisome trend. We've now whiffed on an entire front five of in-state guys. This is a real issue. It can't be ignored any longer. No more glossing it over with "He was going out of state anyway". That might work with one or two guys, not every single one of them.
     
    buffs likes this.
  2. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Messages:
    20,841
    Likes Received:
    687
    I'm not in panic mode but agree, this is a trend that needs to be turned around sooner than later.

    We need a significant commit or two on the OL by camp season to show that we are going to compete at the position.
     
  3. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    34,046
    Likes Received:
    758
    How OL recruiting has gone since Embree and his staff took over:

    Alex Kelley: A CU legacy who committed to the last staff. Not much recruiting needed to be done to hold on to him.
    Marc Mustoe: Good get by Embree after he took over. Interesting to note he did not meet Marshall until after he had been committed for a couple weeks.
    Paulay Asiata: Good get by the staff in a team effort. Obviously the fact that he has since left the program hurts.
    Brad Cotner: A guy who was not on the radar of many teams and he jumped on our offer (his only one).
    Jeromy Irwin: May end up being the best of this bunch. A guy we were in on early and that work paid off with a commitment shortly before the season. Good work by the staff to hold on to him.
    Gerrad Kough: Committed to us over the summer when we were his only BCS offer. Nothing changed during the season and he ended up signing with us.

    We have some work to do.
     
  4. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    17,482
    Likes Received:
    367
    Cal fans seemed pretty hyped when we took Marshall of their hands.
     
  5. bigbang2

    bigbang2 Typical, brain knowledge or the ability to have a

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,360
    Likes Received:
    44
    If we don't land 4-5 quality OL this cycle then i would say it is a big problem. So far it is okay.

    Nembot- LT, now at about 310 pounds according to reports, has 4 years of eligibility left

    Mustoe- RT came in at 270 pounds, has the frame to bulk up to about 310 pounds , has 4 years of eligibiliy left

    Alex Lewis LT/RT- has about 3 years of eligibility left

    Kelly- C/OG reported to be about 320 pounds by Embree at his news conference, has about 4 years of eligibility left

    Cotner-C/OG- currently at 290 pounds, his film looks good, should compete for the starting job early, could even beat out Handler. Don't be surprised if Cotner sees playing time.

    Jeremy Irwin, Caldwell and Kough are redshirt candidates.

    Depth

    LT- Lewis, Nembot
    LG- Bakhtiari, Kelly
    C- Handler, Cotner
    RG-Munyer, Crabb,
    RT-Danniewitz, Harris,Mustoe


    Harris, Crab, Cotner and Kelly can all play multiple position. And i suspect they will give Nembot and Mustoe some time at Guard during spring ball. Topou and Kofovalu can also play OL. Losing Asiata was tough, but i believe CU is still on the right track.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2012
  6. buffs

    buffs Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2011
    Messages:
    356
    Likes Received:
    24
    I don't see us making the necessary offensive improvement unless we improve on OL. I'm a recruiting novice but still unsure why OL was not more important with the most recent class. One thing that I hope Embo will not hesitate to change/upgrade his assistant coaches. If Marshall is not pulling his load recruiting/coaching than I would hope he goes.

    That said, assistant coach instability, lower talent level, and lower salaries as compared to other programs (resulting in an inability to get better asst coaches when needed) are, in my opinion, some of the top issues that have held CU back and hampered improvement. And I'd rank this above facility improvements.
     
  7. mattrob

    mattrob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,920
    Likes Received:
    86
    And he still seems to get a pass from many here. At some point, he's going to need to win a couple of big recruiting battles to justify that.
     
  8. CVilleBuff

    CVilleBuff Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
    Messages:
    16,320
    Likes Received:
    421
    I'm sure I'm not alone in my concern over Marshall growing exponentially in recent months. Not ready to write him off yet, but it's time to start producing.
     
  9. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    42,988
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Winning ONE big recruiting battle would be a start.
     
  10. bigbang2

    bigbang2 Typical, brain knowledge or the ability to have a

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,360
    Likes Received:
    44
    The staff took
    Mustoe, Nembot, Cotner, Asiata, Lewis in 2011 that about 5 OL
    This cycle they took 3 Kelly, Kough, Irwin,


    The DL and DB was more important, apart from Pericak, the team has nothing on the DL front. And we all saw how USC torched our secondary last year. The team has a lot of holes, OL is not the biggest of needs right now.
     
  11. Quattro

    Quattro Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2010
    Messages:
    26,186
    Likes Received:
    726
    USC torched everyone's secondary.
     
  12. CVilleBuff

    CVilleBuff Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
    Messages:
    16,320
    Likes Received:
    421
    I think there's something you're not getting here, so I'm just going to come out and say it: just filling most spots with any OL doesn't really do the trick, we need good OL. We need to win recruiting battles against BCS schools for OL, not just find guys with one other offer from Portland State or something. I'm all for finding the occasional diamond in the rough, but not basing most of a unit off of those guys and then claiming "we're fine".
     
  13. btbuff

    btbuff It's an inside joke Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,753
    Likes Received:
    69
    We allowed USC to set multiple school records by the third quarter. They found ways to torch us beyond what they did to everybody else.
     
  14. btbuff

    btbuff It's an inside joke Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,753
    Likes Received:
    69
    Especially with the heavy reliance on the run game. Good OL is essential in any situation, but it would be nice to give the running game larger holes .
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2012
  15. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    34,046
    Likes Received:
    758
    We definitely have stepped up the assistant coaching pay with the new staff. Marshall is making $300K. If you look at staffs across the PAC-12, he is one of the more highly compensated OL coaches in the conference. It is time for him to deliver, both on the field and in recruiting.

    Obviously DL and DB were very important, but OL is most certainly a big need going forward. Just look at what happened this year when Jack Harris went down. We had no one behind him. No one. Obviously losing a starting OT for most of a season will hurt any team, but good teams at least have competent players that can step in and be adequate. We were nowhere near adequate at RT after Harris went down.

    We have not had a good OL in years. That has to change at some point and it starts on the recruiting trail with landing good players and building quality depth (something we have lacked for years).
     
  16. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    42,988
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Football is a pretty simple game. Everything starts up front. The line of scrimmage, both offensively and defensively, is where you win games. I'm all for getting running backs, WRs, TEs, DBs, etc. But we won't do very well if we can't recruit both talent and deph on the OL. It's essential. We've done pretty well recruiting in every other area, but we're getting absolutely schooled on the OL.
     
  17. boydbuff

    boydbuff Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    3,465
    Likes Received:
    108
    I think it would be better to say virtually everyone torched our secondary last year. I know our DB roster is young this year but I think we are going to massively improve this year, and I have faith in GB. But we are in an OL thread...
     
  18. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    17,482
    Likes Received:
    367
    OL is always a high priority. I would like to see at least four OL taken every year. Two isn't going to cut it. No matter what the circumstances are.

    I would like to see at least one JUCO OL out of this class. Especially if we miss out on our top prospects.
     
  19. bigbang2

    bigbang2 Typical, brain knowledge or the ability to have a

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,360
    Likes Received:
    44
    Losing Chris Fox doesn't signify big trouble. Chris Fox is a power full line man but there are some technique issues, and his wing span may force him to play Guard. He is not all that, he played against smaller guys in HS, and looked like a man among infants,that will not be the case in College.
     
  20. lawdogg

    lawdogg Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    3,471
    Likes Received:
    127
    Find it a bit interesting that none of these in state guys are going to Pac 12 schools. All of them seem to be heading to the Big 10 or the SEC. Not sure if the pass happy reputation of the Pac 12 is having a chilling effect as well. Obviously if we're getting the kind of recruiting we expect, we can overcome that as well, but just an observation.
     
  21. bigbang2

    bigbang2 Typical, brain knowledge or the ability to have a

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,360
    Likes Received:
    44

    We took 5 last year

    4 this year (Caldwell, Irwin, Kelly, Kough), Topou and Kofovalu can also play OL, that number can even go up if there are position changes.
     
  22. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    34,046
    Likes Received:
    758
    Please stop counting walk-ons to fill out depth charts.

    And CVille's point above still stands: it is not just about numbers, but getting the best players at each position. Just filling out a depth chart is not good enough.
     
  23. bigbang2

    bigbang2 Typical, brain knowledge or the ability to have a

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,360
    Likes Received:
    44

    OL recruiting is probably the most difficult position for scouts to rank coming out of HS. Most of the guys are still growing or not playing against comparable competition, so many examples of how the scouts have missed on OL or DL coming out of HS. I watch film on Cotner, Kough and Irwin, Kelly and they look good to me, they will probably add another 30-40 pounds on average to there frames,and get good coaching better coaching at the College level, so i don't get how people panic because we lose out on a HS OL from Colorado.
     
  24. White_Rabbit

    White_Rabbit Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Messages:
    10,970
    Likes Received:
    332
    No.
     
  25. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    34,046
    Likes Received:
    758
    It is amazing/convenient how you really like all the OL we end up with and the guys we lose out on are all overrated.

    I know OL prospects are difficult to project. That does not change the fact that we need to be doing better in OL recruiting. The staff is losing out on guys they are offering early. We are not only missing on kids out of Colorado, but elsewhere as well. The 2012 class had an OL haul out west we might not see for a long time. We struck out.

    Max Tuerk, Colby Cyburt, Jordan Roos, Steven Moore, Shane Brostek, Jordan Williams, Garrett Weinreich... any of those guys ring a bell? All of them either visited Boulder or had us in their top group at one time or another. All of them are in prime recruiting grounds for us (CA, TX, HI). None of them picked the Buffs.
     
  26. bigbang2

    bigbang2 Typical, brain knowledge or the ability to have a

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,360
    Likes Received:
    44

    I agree we need to do better, but don't agree that we have a big problem in OL recruiting.
     
  27. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    17,482
    Likes Received:
    367
  28. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Messages:
    20,841
    Likes Received:
    687
    BB you highlight a glaring issue with last years class. While I am happy with a couple of the OL prospects we got I don't see a bellcow. I don't see the guy who you look at and say 3-year starter, that's where we run the ball on third and 1. Virtually every other position that we recruited last year we got guys that other PAC 12 teams wanted and were dissapointed to lose to us, who on the OL fits that description.

    You can talk all you want about finding under the radar guys, developing hidden potential, the guys for "our system", Dan Hawkins would be glad to agree with you all day long.

    I am not in a panic. I think we have some talent and the situation isn't desperate. At the same time we need this year to get some (plural) standout guys. As much as you want to talk about QBs and RBs and WRs, a team only goes as far as it's OL carries it and so far our recruiting at OL hasn't matched our hopes or ambitions. If that doesn't change then someone needs to be changed so it does.
     
  29. BlackNGold

    BlackNGold $15 a year member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    3,700
    Likes Received:
    197
    I think it is a little early to panic...The ink is hardly dry on last years class. Fox going anywhere but Michigan was a long shot and was well known.
     
  30. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    10,664
    Likes Received:
    303
     

Share This Page