1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Ralphie Report: Colorado Basketball: Plateauing at 5,345 Feet

Discussion in 'Colorado Basketball Message Board' started by RSSBot, Feb 22, 2016.

  1. RSSBot

    RSSBot News Junkie

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    28,653
    Likes Received:
    198
    A look at the meteoric rise and subsequent stagnation of a program and its fans. On the afternoon of Saturday, February 13, the Colorado Buffaloes pulled out a thrilling 81-80 victory over the University of Washington at the Coors Events Center. It vaulted them past the Huskies in the Pac-12 standings and by the end of the weekend the Buffs were tied with Utah for 3rd place in the conference....

    Click the link above or visit http://www.ralphiereport.com for more.

    by Ted Chalfen
    Continue reading...
     
    NiTownBuff and maverick like this.
  2. Goose

    Goose Hoops Moderator Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Messages:
    10,552
    Likes Received:
    1,539
    This is a fantastic deep dive.

    TL;DR - EVERYONE is responsible. Students, administration, casual fans, season ticket holders, the team, Tad, EVERYONE.
     
  3. seattlebuff

    seattlebuff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    120
    A depressing read really ...
    • Remember all those wins over ranked opponents 4-5 years ago? Distant memories.
    • CU's peak was with guys Tad didn't recruit. Plain and simple.
    • This whole hoops "rise and fall of attendance" thing is just emblematic of sports culture in Boulder and why its so difficult to win there, and attract top-tier coaching and athletic talent. There is just an HUGE swath of students that could not give a **** about CU athletics. Once you get outside the Greek scene, nobody cares. When you combine the high percentage of hippies and alternative sports junkies (bikers/climbers/skiers, etc.), with the ultra progressive Boulder residents (read: generally not into conventional sports), it's a recipe for lukewarm support at best. Only when the team is ranked or close to ranked will there be big crowds. The culture of support for CU sports is just not there like it is for the vast majority of power conference schools. Just look at the dwindling activity on the boards and comment sections around the web. And if Boulder was 30 minutes further from Denver? Holy ****, we'd be at the bottom of the league in attendance for sure.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2016
  4. TSchekler

    TSchekler Darth's Hero Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Messages:
    11,107
    Likes Received:
    4,226
    TL;DR... CU has fair weather fans
     
  5. Shldr2Shldr

    Shldr2Shldr Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    16,815
    Likes Received:
    4,986
    Do you not remember 2013? Does no one remember that season actually existed? Yes it ended poorly, but Tad had a plan and it was being executed to perfection. An injury to the corner stone of that roster is the only reason that season missed its expectations.

    A neutral site loss to #25 **** Baylor by 12
    A home win against #6 KU
    A neutral site loss to #7 OkSU by 5
    A home win vs #10 Oregon

    CU won 23 games that season. 23! They won 14 games before The Mayor got injured. After that they won 9 of the remaining 18. I would think with Spencer, CU win's 3-4 more of those, before the NCAA tournament. That was a team poised for a a sweet 16 or elite 8 run. They were that good with that elite pg. Tad built that. With a roster 99% full of his own guys, (Ben Mills and the walk on seniors)

    Tad's biggest mistake was that he couldn't build on that momentum in recruiting and land a truly elite PG to replace Spencer.
     
    StormTrooper and TSchekler like this.
  6. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    25,878
    Likes Received:
    1,499
    We'll assume you are referring to his second season as his peak when we won the conf and an NCAA game tournament.

    I didnt realize BZ (or Patton) had recruited:

    - Booker
    - Dinwiddie
    - Roberson
    - Brown
    - Adams
    - Chen

    Why do you say such demonstrably false and stupid things over an over?
     
  7. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    56,882
    Likes Received:
    4,911
    You are a strange bird. Stick to reality
     
    bombay likes this.
  8. aghcsm

    aghcsm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2014
    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    92
    Maybe he was referring to Frosty Cox' teams as CU peaking.
     
  9. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,540
    Likes Received:
    16,165
    What Frosty Cox erected was truly monumental.
     
  10. aghcsm

    aghcsm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2014
    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    92
    Certainly would be hard to beat.
     
    jsmilkst likes this.
  11. seattlebuff

    seattlebuff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    120
    We didn't play a single ranked opponent that year until UNLV in the tourney (yes, I know we won ...)

    IMO, our best team of the Tad era is the 2010-11 team that got hosed on selection day. 4 wins over ranked opponents that year, something we haven't come close to duplicating since. Burks and Higgins (not his recruits, right??) were the best talent we've had in the past 10 years, and better than any of the guys on your list above. I'd put them ahead of Spencer, who might have surpassed them but with the injury, we'll never really know. Why is Spencer still languishing in the D league with a sub par Detroit team? To this point, Higgins played more games in the NBA. Roberson was great for us, and has surprisingly held on with OKC despite poor stats, but from a pure talent perspective, I'd take Burks and Higgins.
     
  12. maverick

    maverick Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    14
    Starter for OKC before recent injury
     
  13. Shldr2Shldr

    Shldr2Shldr Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    16,815
    Likes Received:
    4,986
    Higgins has 44 total games played
    SD has 43 total games played and this season isn't over yet. SD plays in the D league, because while Detroit may not be very good, they have quite a few rather talented guards. Spencer is tearing up the D league.

    Also as mentioned, Roberson is a starter for OKC. 152 games played, averaging 21min per game.
     
  14. Fight CU

    Fight CU Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    6,702
    Likes Received:
    1,549
    hey man I've also endured a winter that has already broken the historical rain record and we still have about a month left! wow man it SUCKS. that said, quit taking it out on the rest of us by saying stupid **** like this in every post. thank you.
     
    Goose likes this.
  15. seattlebuff

    seattlebuff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    120
    I'm talking about pure college production when I put Burks and Higgins ahead. But since we're on the subject ... of course Spencer will surpass Higgins' NBA production. But to this point, he hasn't really. The Pistons just traded away Jennings for two forwards. Why wasn't Spencer immediately called up? Maybe they're truly giving him development minutes down there. Remains to be seen.

    As for Roberson, loved him as a Buff, he's a great defender and hard worker, which is why he's a starter for them. But how many NBA guys averaging 5ppg and 3rpg in 21mpg continue to start?
     
  16. Shldr2Shldr

    Shldr2Shldr Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    16,815
    Likes Received:
    4,986
    1) you made the point of comparing Higgin's NBA career to spencer's. I was following that scenario.
    2) Roberson does a lot on the defensive end that are not measured in stats. He is an elite level defender.
     
  17. StormTrooper

    StormTrooper Millennial Liason Club Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2015
    Messages:
    787
    Likes Received:
    816
    I honestly feel that CU's peak as a program - not in terms of NCAA tourney success or fan support - was on January 5, 2014 when they beat Oregon and moved into the top 15.
     
    Goose likes this.
  18. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    56,882
    Likes Received:
    4,911
    Yes. Damn that uw floor
     
  19. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    25,878
    Likes Received:
    1,499
    I contemplated simply writing this is the logic of someone who thinks winning the NIT is better than just making the dance, but lets go a little deeper.

    You are telling me a team
    That was 24-14
    That went 8-8 in league play
    4 wins over ranked opponents
    That finished fifth in the league
    That went to the NIT


    Should be considered more successful than a team that:
    Went 11-7 In league play
    Also finished 5th in the league
    1 win over a ranked opponent
    Won the conference tournament
    Went to the NCAA
    Won a game in the NCAA
    Was 24-12


    This team (10/11) then should be considered more successful because it beat 3 ranked teams, despite finishing lower in any measurable other category of actual team performance; also because of the talent of two players as defined by their NCAA careers cross referenced by games played in the NBA - Burks who is a beast and well respected. A player Tad had to convince to stay (you could twist that into recruited if you were Tini, I won't). Higgins - who you'd take over Dinwiddie as a superior talent proven by the fact he played 1 more game in the league than Spencer has so far, ignoring that in wins, losses and titles Spencer handily out performed Higgins.

    Fwiw
    Spencer in the league:
    Drafted 38th
    43 Games
    1 start
    544 minutes played
    185 points scored
    57 RB
    157 Assists

    Higgins in the league:
    Drafted D League
    44 Games
    0 Starts
    455 Minutes played
    167 points scored
    38 RB
    41 assists

    really though is is just a long winded way of saying two things:

    1.) But..... NIT.
    2.) I am sorry you find so little just in the team you root for.
     
  20. seattlebuff

    seattlebuff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    120
    Wouldn't disagree with that, but the Spencer injury made that season a "what if" scenario. Sure, we might have gone on a crazy run in the dance, and then for sure, that would be the peak. But plenty of teams have started 13-2 and then collapsed. We don't know. I'm evaluating where we were at the end of the season. the year we got snubbed I still think was our best team. We missed the NIT final by one point that year ... I think we could have made the Sweet 16 if we hadn't gotten hosed.
     
  21. StormTrooper

    StormTrooper Millennial Liason Club Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2015
    Messages:
    787
    Likes Received:
    816
    Well VCU got to the final four that year and we would probably have been playing the same teams they did because the consensus seemed to be that they were put in the spot that we would have been put in.
     
  22. seattlebuff

    seattlebuff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    120
    As you did last year at some point, you're confusing me with someone else. I've never once stated that going to the NIT is better than the NCAA for a program. That is completely unhinged, anyone that believes that is off their rocker.

    I'm saying that the 2010/11 team that got hosed and went to the NIT (coming out of the Big12 with 5 ranked teams) was better than the 11/12 team that got to the dance only by winning the Pac12 tourney ... the league was awful that year. Two bids to the NCAA. Yeah, we went 11-7 but we didn't play a single ranked opponent in the regular season.

    Conference records don't mean **** except in the context of the season in which you're talking.
     
  23. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,540
    Likes Received:
    16,165
    Unfortunately, as of Selection Sunday that team had the #64 RPI and had played a non-conference SOS ranked #273. Too many bad losses and too many cupcakes on that schedule despite some really good wins. https://rpiarchive.ncaa.org/Stats Library/2011 Final Nitty Gritty by RPI.pdf
     
  24. CVilleBuff

    CVilleBuff Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
    Messages:
    19,520
    Likes Received:
    1,600
    As if being left out wasn't bad enough, sitting here in VA surrounded by VCU mania was the WORST
     
  25. aghcsm

    aghcsm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2014
    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    92
    My recollection, which I confirmed, is that the PAC12 tourney champs were the only NCAA tourney team that year. Several others went to the NIT.
     
  26. seattlebuff

    seattlebuff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2012
    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    120
    You're right, further emphasizing my point ... Absinthe touting our 11-7 conf record that year doesn't hold much water.
     
  27. Goose

    Goose Hoops Moderator Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Messages:
    10,552
    Likes Received:
    1,539
    False. Cal danced that year too.
     
  28. aghcsm

    aghcsm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2014
    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    92
    Upon re-re-checking...you are right. But you already knew that.
     
  29. ShockerHoops

    ShockerHoops Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    257
    Likes Received:
    100
    Me too.
     
    Goose likes this.
  30. BehindEnemyLines

    BehindEnemyLines beware the habu Club Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Messages:
    14,565
    Likes Received:
    915
    Let's not forget that after Bz left, Tad had to re-recruit Alec B. He very well could have transferred.
     
    Goose likes this.

Share This Page