SMU expresses interest in joining Big 12

[Deleted member 807]

That's what Wyoming has been doing. Texas two years ago and Nebraska this season. It's helped Wyoming dramatically inflate their season ticket sales, because those fans just buy the season ticket packages in droves rather than risk not getting a single-game ticket.

It was smart marketing. The Laramie road trip is still being discussed amongst the Longhorn traveling legions. It gave the cowboys some good exposure. Same deal for Nebraska.

I suspect BYU had an audition of sorts by agreeing to the OU game at JerryWorld. After that game when Bradford got knocked out, all of a sudden BYU became relevant.

Those games brought TV exposure plus tangible memories amongst big time powerbrokers who are in position to influence conference alignment discussions.

There's no way Wyoming will be invited to the B12, but atleast people in the room have something personal to draw from when having that discussion.

 

[sackman]

The difference between CSU and SMU is that at SMU, their administration has the balls to make the play. They see the writing on the wall, and know that the B12 will probably look to expand. They feel like they can step into the void left by A&M and are telling Dodds and his pool boy that they're willing to play nice. Meanwhile, in Ft. Collins... crickets.

On the surface, CSU really does make more sense than SMU. But if the choice were to be made between the two, the B12 would take SMU in a heartbeat.

 

[Buffnik]

The difference between CSU and SMU is that at SMU, their administration has the balls to make the play. They see the writing on the wall, and know that the B12 will probably look to expand. They feel like they can step into the void left by A&M and are telling Dodds and his pool boy that they're willing to play nice. Meanwhile, in Ft. Collins... crickets.

On the surface, CSU really does make more sense than SMU. But if the choice were to be made between the two, the B12 would take SMU in a heartbeat.

I really don't get the case for CSU.

If the Big 12 needs to add teams, Houston would be the top in-state option as a direct replacement for aTm (3rd largest state university, huge tv market, and a ton of national championships in other sports). If they're expanding outside the state, BYU and Air Force are the top options. New Mexico is a program they might be willing to take a flyer on. The dream would be Notre Dame, which might actually say yes if the rest of the Big 12 agreed to go to a 7 game conference season (they would still want USC, Stan, UM, MSU & Navy in the OOC).

 

[Dark Bohner]

Which is saying something, considering Craig James kills ESPN's credibility every time that guy opens his mouth. Seriously, in the list of candidates for a potential Big 12 expansion, SMU is about as far down that list as you can get.

Yep. The only one further down is CSU.

 

[CsquaredCC]

The difference between CSU and SMU is that at SMU, their administration has the balls to make the play. They see the writing on the wall, and know that the B12 will probably look to expand. They feel like they can step into the void left by A&M and are telling Dodds and his pool boy that they're willing to play nice. Meanwhile, in Ft. Collins... crickets.

On the surface, CSU really does make more sense than SMU. But if the choice were to be made between the two, the B12 would take SMU in a heartbeat.

I don't think anyone knows what is going on right now, but I think you are simply wrong to think CSU hasn't put out feelers just as SMU has, even if it is less public. SMU's little press release illustrates more than anything the overall weakness of C-USA and its members committment to the conference.

Look I am not saying CSU is the best option for the Big12, but it certainly is an option and I have read a number of articles stating as much. I think if we learned anything recently, expansion is about expanding the conference footprint. CSU, Air Force, BYU, New Mexico and even UNLV and Nevada all provide marketable options with inherent weaknesses.

From what I have seen so far, if I had to guess I think the list of programs for Big 12 expansion probably looks like this:

1. Notre Dame
2. BYU
3. Houston
4. Air Force
5. Colorado State
6. New Mexico
7. Bosie State
8. SMU

Obviously things would have to break the right way and certain programs would probably have to decline an invite, but after BYU I think it becomes wide open. And if the the Big12 ever heads back to a 12 team conference, CSU will be in that discussion.

 

[Buffnik]

Don't forget Memphis. Built in bowl game and a basketball powerhouse.

 

[NashBuff]

There is a Northern Illinois Facebook page that is lobbying the Big 12 to take them. :lol:

 

[Buffnik]

There is a Northern Illinois Facebook page that is lobbying the Big 12 to take them. :lol:

They have a better case than CSU.

Illinois borders both Iowa and Missouri.

Illinois is in the central time zone with the rest of the conference.

Could potentially put the conference on the cable networks in Chicago.

They've been to 5 bowl games since 2004.

Definitely a longshot, but probably better than some of the other options being discussed.

 

[sackman]

Don't forget Memphis. Built in bowl game and a basketball powerhouse.

This. I think Memphis should be at the top of any B12 expansion list. I know UT wants a bunch of ass kissers, and Memphis might not fit that mold, but they do add something to the conference.

 

[MtnBuff]

I don't think anyone knows what is going on right now, but I think you are simply wrong to think CSU hasn't put out feelers just as SMU has, even if it is less public. SMU's little press release illustrates more than anything the overall weakness of C-USA and its members committment to the conference.

Look I am not saying CSU is the best option for the Big12, but it certainly is an option and I have read a number of articles stating as much. I think if we learned anything recently, expansion is about expanding the conference footprint. CSU, Air Force, BYU, New Mexico and even UNLV and Nevada all provide marketable options with inherent weaknesses.

From what I have seen so far, if I had to guess I think the list of programs for Big 12 expansion probably looks like this:

1. Notre Dame
2. BYU
3. Houston
4. Air Force
5. Colorado State
6. New Mexico
7. Bosie State
8. SMU

Obviously things would have to break the right way and certain programs would probably have to decline an invite, but after BYU I think it becomes wide open. And if the the Big12 ever heads back to a 12 team conference, CSU will be in that discussion.

If you are putting CSU, a school that averages less than 24K a home game and is declining, a school with the lowest athletic budget in the MWC, a school that has no significant sports history or tradition and very little appeal or even recognition outside its own fan base ahead of New Mexico and Boise you are simply delusional.

SMU gives the Big XII much more than a CSU does. Don't give the argument about the Denver market because CSU isn't a significant player in the Denver market. If the Big XII went out of Texas and couldn't get a Notre Dame or maybe a BYU they would easily take New Mexico ahead of CSU. Both schools have terrible programs but UNM is the dominant school in their growing market, is closer to the majority of Big XII schools, and has far more revenue growth potential.

I know you see the world through green and gold glasses but in this case your prescription is way off. CSU is not going to the Big XII unless the Big XII becomes a remnant conference after losing Texas, OU, and some others.

 

[HotRack]

if you are putting csu, a school that averages less than 24k a home game and is declining, a school with the lowest athletic budget in the mwc, a school that has no significant sports history or tradition and very little appeal or even recognition outside its own fan base ahead of new mexico and boise you are simply delusional.

Smu gives the big xii much more than a csu does. Don't give the argument about the denver market because csu isn't a significant player in the denver market. If the big xii went out of texas and couldn't get a notre dame or maybe a byu they would easily take new mexico ahead of csu. Both schools have terrible programs but unm is the dominant school in their growing market, is closer to the majority of big xii schools, and has far more revenue growth potential.

I know you see the world through green and gold glasses but in this case your prescription is way off. Csu is not going to the big xii unless the big xii becomes a remnant conference after losing texas, ou, and some others.

^^^^this!^^^^

 

[RalphieSpeaks]

I don't think anyone knows what is going on right now, but I think you are simply wrong to think CSU hasn't put out feelers just as SMU has, even if it is less public. SMU's little press release illustrates more than anything the overall weakness of C-USA and its members committment to the conference.

Look I am not saying CSU is the best option for the Big12, but it certainly is an option and I have read a number of articles stating as much. I think if we learned anything recently, expansion is about expanding the conference footprint. CSU, Air Force, BYU, New Mexico and even UNLV and Nevada all provide marketable options with inherent weaknesses.

From what I have seen so far, if I had to guess I think the list of programs for Big 12 expansion probably looks like this:


2. BYU
3. Houston


6. New Mexico
7. Bosie State
8. SMU

Obviously things would have to break the right way and certain programs would probably have to decline an invite, but after BYU I think it becomes wide open. And if the the Big12 ever heads back to a 12 team conference, CSU will be in that discussion.

Let me help you with that.....

 

[Tractor]

1. Notre Dame
2. BYU
3. Houston
4. Air Force
5. Colorado State
6. New Mexico
7. Bosie State
8. SMU

There is a 0% chance that CSU is in the top 5 choices for the Big 12. I would argue there is a 0% chance of CSU being in the top 10 choices.

1. Notre Dame
2. Notre Dame
3. Notre Dame
4. Any leftover ACC team if the SEC invites FSU
5. Any leftover Big East team that wants to get away from a 50 school conference
6. Houston
7. Air Force
8. SMU
9. New Mexico
10. UTEP
11. Probably right around any other MWC school, with the exception of Wyoming.

I wouldn't see them adding any schools past #9, but who knows with those asshats.

CSU had an average attendance of: 23,643 above UNLV and Wyoming in the MWC in 2009. I think the Big 12 would be more interested in UNLV's tradition and "market" over CSU's.


If you're hating on UTEP because it doesn't "expand the market footprint" you're probably right. But Texans are funny folk. I think they could be convinced to prop up one of their own over subsidizing other schools. They're also not terrible as far as attendence values. This would increase playing in the Big 12, and would drastically reduce transportation costs for non-revenue sports. Check this out:

School	Football 2009 Att.	5 Year Avg.	Basketball 2009	5 Year Avg.
Boise State	32,782	31,192	4,044	4,263
Fresno State	33,578	37,118	8,969	10,621
Nevada	17,500	17,086	6,953	7,924
Houston	25,242	20,935	3,814	4,326
Tulsa	22,502	23,107	5,783	5,752
SMU	21,348	18,078	2,835	2,806
UTEP	29,010	38,843	8,675	9,125

 

[Mick Ronson]

SMU is an unknown at this point....but, have demonstrated upside in the past. CSU is a known loser.

 

[Buffnik]

UTEP also has a great hoops tradition. I could see UT saying that them and Oklahoma fighting it out for the football championship every year with a bunch of basketball schools rounding out the conference wouldn't be a bad setup at all. (As long as the money was right.)

 

[Mick Ronson]

Memphis wouldn't interest me much. commuter school, and maybe they are a basketball powerhouse with Calipari and Dana Kirk....two all-time cheaters. who knows where they are with Pastner or how long he stays if he has success. football, meh.

i think the "young, charismatic coach with a pedigree" gives you more Quin Snyders than Matt Painters (though Painter is a whiner, not so charismatic...but apparently can really recruit). Neuheisel a good example as well vs. the guy at Butler. more the former than the latter.

 

[Quattro]

1. Notre Dame
2. BYU
3. Houston
4. Air Force
5. Colorado State
6. New Mexico
7. Bosie State
8. SMU

:rofl:
Why in the hell would Boise State be listed lower than CSWho for expansion? They actually, you know, do something in football.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

Notre Dame = total pipe dream. If they were going to join ANY conference, it would be Big 10 or Big East.
BYU = possible, but do you want to travel to Utah every year for road games?
Houston = possible. They have a 32,000 seat stadium. They would not ADD anything to the conference, really.
Air Force = LOL
Colorado State = LOL x 2
New Mexico = LOL x 3
Boise State = You want to travel to Boise freaking Idaho?? You thought Ames, Iowa was bad?
SMU = see Houston. They have at least shown they are willing to cheat to win, so they would fit in with the Big 12.

 

[MtnBuff]

Houston could play one game a year in the Texan's stadium against UT or OU who would sell 30,000+ seats themselves bringing their average attendance up significantly, SMU the same with Jerryworld. Would be almost a home game for the big 2 that they could still call a road game.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

Houston could play one game a year in the Texan's stadium against UT or OU who would sell 30,000+ seats themselves bringing their average attendance up significantly, SMU the same with Jerryworld. Would be almost a home game for the big 2 that they could still call a road game.

They COULD do that, but I doubt OU/UT/Tech/OSU/etc. would return the favor.

 

[Wyo Buff]

Craig James hailing SMU as a great fit for the Big 12. :lol: I don't know why ESPN airs this crap; it just kills their credibility.

Since when is ESPN concerned about credibility. When they want our opinion, they will give it to us.

 

[MrFrumpylane]

:rofl:
Why in the hell would Boise State be listed lower than CSWho for expansion? They actually, you know, do something in football.

Something tells me you have much to learn. Expansion is about the $$$. If you're right that it's about "They actually, you know, do something in football", then by that merit, BSU should have gone to the Pac12 instead of us.

 

[Deleted member 807]

Come on guys. Give CSU the benefit of their daily dose of pumpkin and alfalfa colored self-affirmation!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DIETlxquzY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[MtnBuff]

They COULD do that, but I doubt OU/UT/Tech/OSU/etc. would return the favor.

That's the beauty of it. SMU gives up a home game in their stadium for a game in the larger pro stadium. Their road games still play at the home site of UT or OU. For OU and UT the game is still looked at as a road game but the crowd is more like a home game. The Big XII is based on what is good for the big boys and the little guys getting their scraps. They would figure out some way that the big guys would make more money on this deal to as well as not giving anything up.

 

[Buffnik]

Given the way that conference is set up with a big advantage going to teams that can secure their own network deals, I would bet there are people who are thinking of going against the current grain. Why look to a 12-team conference, let alone 14 or 16? Might UT say that it would be better to contract and re-organize as an 8-team conference?

Imagine if they dropped ISU, KSU and TTU but picked up Notre Dame and BYU?

ND and BYU already have their own network deals. They also have some established rivalries and a desire to play outside their region. If the conference only had 8 teams, that would mean 7 conference games and a chance to play a lot of desirable matchups in the non-conference that could be aired on the team networks.

If I was running the Big 12, that's the direction I'd take things. They are not in position to win the realignment wars through expansion, so I'd play to the strengths and zig while everyone else zagged.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

Given the way that conference is set up with a big advantage going to teams that can secure their own network deals, I would bet there are people who are thinking of going against the current grain. Why look to a 12-team conference, let alone 14 or 16? Might UT say that it would be better to contract and re-organize as an 8-team conference?

Imagine if they dropped ISU, KSU and TTU but picked up Notre Dame and BYU?

ND and BYU already have their own network deals. They also have some established rivalries and a desire to play outside their region. If the conference only had 8 teams, that would mean 7 conference games and a chance to play a lot of desirable matchups in the non-conference that could be aired on the team networks.

If I was running the Big 12, that's the direction I'd take things. They are not in position to win the realignment wars through expansion, so I'd play to the strengths and zig while everyone else zagged.

That is an interesting idea. I would have to read the bylaws again, but I do not recall any provision for "kicking out" teams. UT could certainly leave the Big 12 of their own accord. That would be sort of funny, after all that has happened in the past couple years.

 

[Darth Snow]

Given the way that conference is set up with a big advantage going to teams that can secure their own network deals, I would bet there are people who are thinking of going against the current grain. Why look to a 12-team conference, let alone 14 or 16? Might UT say that it would be better to contract and re-organize as an 8-team conference?

Imagine if they dropped ISU, KSU and TTU but picked up Notre Dame and BYU?

ND and BYU already have their own network deals. They also have some established rivalries and a desire to play outside their region. If the conference only had 8 teams, that would mean 7 conference games and a chance to play a lot of desirable matchups in the non-conference that could be aired on the team networks.

If I was running the Big 12, that's the direction I'd take things. They are not in position to win the realignment wars through expansion, so I'd play to the strengths and zig while everyone else zagged.

Interesting idea. Problem would be scheduling enough teams of worth to stay relevant in the national discussion. They would get completely frozen out by the other conferences for games after the first few weeks of the season. With 9 game pac12 schedules, the pac12 teams (except, perhaps, for USC and ND) would never schedule them. The SEC won't, and neither will the big 10 (except, again, for the ND exception). So maybe they can find some big east/acc patsies...

But again, it is one thing for one school to be poaching premier games against top notch competition (USC) late in the season, and it is quite another for another 3 or 4 teams to be doing it.

 

[Buffnik]

Interesting idea. Problem would be scheduling enough teams of worth to stay relevant in the national discussion. They would get completely frozen out by the other conferences for games after the first few weeks of the season. With 9 game pac12 schedules, the pac12 teams (except, perhaps, for USC and ND) would never schedule them. The SEC won't, and neither will the big 10 (except, again, for the ND exception). So maybe they can find some big east/acc patsies...

But again, it is one thing for one school to be poaching premier games against top notch competition (USC) late in the season, and it is quite another for another 3 or 4 teams to be doing it.

They'd need to play their non-conference games in September & October.

And maybe keep TTU in the conference and go with 9 teams. That gives a balanced conference schedule of 4 home / 4 away while also leaving a lot of flexibility for non-conference scheduling.

 

[Darth Snow]

They'd need to play their non-conference games in September & October.

And maybe keep TTU in the conference and go with 9 teams. That gives a balanced conference schedule of 4 home / 4 away while also leaving a lot of flexibility for non-conference scheduling.

Again, October is too late for the SEC/PAC/Big10.

 

[Buffnik]

Again, October is too late for the SEC/PAC/Big10.

Not really. Look at schedules. You see some conference openers early with ooc games happening later.

Forget the SEC, too. Most of those teams don't want to leave their region. They're much more interested in playing FIU or LA-Monroe or Troy than they are a team from Kansas.