The Allbuffs Coaching Candidate list

[NashBuff]

Fine, focus on TX...

Leach coached at BYU and has the western connections that CU needs to be looking for. Leach has coached at BYU and BYU has gone up against the Pac-10 schools many times in the past so it's very probable that Leach is familar enough with the trends of the Pac-10.

 

[NashBuff]

I agree. He has a unique O which is fun to watch, but he built his W/L on the backs of 4 patsy wins a year.

Unlike Hawkins, Leach had a system at TT. That is something that CU needs to do and that is hire a coach with a system. If CU chooses to hire Big Mac, he needs to hire an offensive coordinator who has a system. I'm not sold on EB being the OC.

 

[Duff Man]

Those seven and eight win seasons are seasons that CU fans will have to be happy with for the time being.

Funny you left out the 2008 and 2009 seasons where TT hit it big.

2009 was another 8-4 year FWIW. I think the point is, Leach probably won't consistently win 7-8 games a year with our OOC schedules. Even if he is winning 7-8 games a season, that is not the greatest ROI considering what we would have to pay Leach.

 

[Duff Man]

Leach coached at BYU and has the western connections that CU needs to be looking for. Leach has coached at BYU and BYU has gone up against the Pac-10 schools many times in the past so it's very probable that Leach is familar enough with the trends of the Pac-10.

Extremely flimsy connection there.

 

[leftybuff]

Leach coached at BYU and has the western connections that CU needs to be looking for. Leach has coached at BYU and BYU has gone up against the Pac-10 schools many times in the past so it's very probable that Leach is familar enough with the trends of the Pac-10.

Unlike Hawkins, Leach had a system at TT. That is something that CU needs to do and that is hire a coach with a system. If CU chooses to hire Big Mac, he needs to hire an offensive coordinator who has a system. I'm not sold on EB being the OC.

Leach most definitely would be an upgrade...but then again so would nearly anybody. Most of his success was built on a weak OOC, a juggernaut O, and being at a school where he could get anybody in. He likely would not have the first and third points if he were at CU. Recruiting TX is always a good idea, but most Pac 10 players come from Pac 10 country. Sure you can pick up some nice players, but your focus should really be on the west coast. Most TX kids are not going to the PAc 10 unless they have no other options. Leach is pretty far down my list...

 

[NashBuff]

2009 was another 8-4 year FWIW. I think the point is, Leach probably won't consistently win 7-8 games a year with our OOC schedules. Even if he is winning 7-8 games a season, that is not the greatest ROI considering what we would have to pay Leach.

TT was able to compete in the Big 12 South.

Some of you guys must have never been to west Texas.

 

[leftybuff]

TT was able to compete in the Big 12 South.

Some of you guys must have never been to west Texas.

I have. It sucks, just like Manhattan, KS. But if you let anybody who can fog a mirror into your school, you'll always get some players. It's no mystery or the sole result of great coaching....

 

[NashBuff]

Leach most definitely would be an upgrade...but then again so would nearly anybody. Most of his success was built on a weak OOC, a juggernaut O, and being at a school where he could get anybody in. He likely would not have the first and third points if he were at CU. Recruiting TX is always a good idea, but most Pac 10 players come from Pac 10 country. Sure you can pick up some nice players, but your focus should really be on the west coast. Most TX kids are not going to the PAc 10 unless they have no other options. Leach is pretty far down my list...

Didn't I just disprove what you said about TX kids going to the Pac-10 with those two TX RBs who went to both Oregon schools? Just like with California kids, there will be always some kids who will stay in the state and go out of state. CU will have to recruit both states to be successful no matter what. That is something that Hawkins clearly failed to do but Barnett and Big Mac did a good job in that area. It has been proven to be true not only at CU but some Pac-12 schools as well. Utah is winning big because of kids from both states and I have talked with a lot of Ute fans of late getting some valuable insight of that program.

 

[White_Rabbit]

Those seven and eight win seasons are seasons that CU fans will have to be happy with for the time being.

Funny you left out the 2008 and 2009 seasons where TT hit it big.

I did list it, it just got messed up with copy pasting.

2009 Texas Tech 8–4 5–3 3rd (South) Invited to Alamo* 23 21

Nice season.

You seem to be overlooking the fact that Texas Tech plays a Kansas State level OOC schedule every year. No way does Leach go 4-0 OOC playing Cal, Georgia, Florida State, Ohio State level schools every year.

 

[Duff Man]

Didn't I just disprove what you said about TX kids going to the Pac-10 with those two TX RBs who went to both Oregon schools? Just like with California kids, there will be always some kids who will stay in the state and go out of state. CU will have to recruit both states to be successful no matter what. That is something that Hawkins clearly failed to do but Barnett and Big Mac did a good job in that area. It has been proven to be true not only at CU but some Pac-12 schools as well. Utah is winning big because of kids from both states and I have talked with a lot of Ute fans of late getting some valuable insight of that program.

Two players disproves his point? Interesting.

 

[White_Rabbit]

Unlike Hawkins, Leach had a system at TT. That is something that CU needs to do and that is hire a coach with a system. If CU chooses to hire Big Mac, he needs to hire an offensive coordinator who has a system. I'm not sold on EB being the OC.

Your standards are pretty low. I'm pretty sure 99% of the coaches in America have a "system" that they will bring to CU. Not every coach is a moron like Hawk and tries to use 5 different offenses in 5 seasons.

Yes we will all admit that Leach would bring us more wins than Hawk. So did Barnett, actually Barnett and Leach are probably pretty similar overall. They'll beat the teams they should beat and maybe every so often they'll beat a team they shouldn't. That's their maximum potential as coaches. Leach at CU would at max win 10 games once and have a bunch of seasons where he goes anywhere from 6-6 to 8-4. If that's what you want from CU football, so be it.

 

[leftybuff]

Didn't I just disprove what you said about TX kids going to the Pac-10 with those two TX RBs who went to both Oregon schools? Just like with California kids, there will be always some kids who will stay in the state and go out of state. CU will have to recruit both states to be successful no matter what. That is something that Hawkins clearly failed to do but Barnett and Big Mac did a good job in that area. It has been proven to be true not only at CU but some Pac-12 schools as well. Utah is winning big because of kids from both states and I have talked with a lot of Ute fans of late getting some valuable insight of that program.

Qualifying words like "most" and "some", apparently are lost on you....


EDIT: Just for the hell of it, I looked at OU's roster, six kids from TX. My point was that a PAc 10 teams should not focus on TX, but rather Pac 10 country (CA, OR, UT, AZ, WA etc.) You can get kids from TX and nationwide, but your focus should be your region. Hiring a coach because he is a good TX recruiter is risky. TX kids prefer to play in a legaue with the TX schools. Of course, the fact that a handful may go out of state most certainly disproves the point.:rolling_eyes:

I played TX HS FB. Most every kid who aspired to CFB fantasized about an SWC or Big 8 school back then, usually UT, OU, aTm or the Nubs. My nephew played down there too and finished up a few years ago and it hasn't changed much. But then again, LaMichael and Jacquizz prove otherwise....

 

[NashBuff]

CU will always recruit CA heavily regardless of who is the coach. That will not change under Leach if he was to come to Boulder. You are all missing the point here and that is that CU has been at its most successful when CU has recruited both states with success.

What everyone is balantly failing to realize is that Arizona and Utah are doing the same thing that I am talking about.

http://utahutes.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/utah-m-footbl-mtt.html

That is the Utah roster. I count 14 players from Texas.

http://www.arizonawildcats.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/ariz-m-footbl-mtt.html

That is the Arizona roster. I count 15 players from Texas plus one more player went to Blinn JC.

I looked at the ASU roster and they don't have as many Texas players as those two but the two best teams of the P12 South is Arizona and Utah.

Again, Leach will be able to recruit California and his name is still golden in Texas in light of TT's struggles after they fired him. Just imagine Leach being able to sell the Rockies and Boulder compared to west Texas and Lubbock and watch the recruits come in. The ceiling for success at CU is higher than what it will ever be at Texas Tech. Just count how many SWC and Big 12 titles TT has won in their history...'nuff said.

 

[Duff Man]

Again, Leach will be able to recruit California and his name is still golden in Texas in light of TT's struggles after they fired him. Just imagine Leach being able to sell the Rockies and Boulder compared to west Texas and Lubbock and watch the recruits come in. The ceiling for success at CU is higher than what it will ever be at Texas Tech. Just count how many SWC and Big 12 titles TT has won in their history...'nuff said.

You seem to throw out opinions and consider them fact. You have no idea whether Leach will be able to effectively recruit California. As far as your last sentence, Leach did nothing to help that number... just sayin'.

 

[NashBuff]

You seem to throw out opinions and consider them fact. You have no idea whether Leach will be able to effectively recruit California. As far as your last sentence, Leach did nothing to help that number... just sayin'.

When you consider coaching hires...do you go by opinions or facts?

Be honest with yourself, how would have Leach fared in the North without having to play OU and UT every year?

 

[Duff Man]

When you consider coaching hires...do you go by opinions or facts?

Be honest with yourself, how would have Leach fared in the North without having to play OU and UT every year?

Both, but you stipulate which ones are which. The idea that Mike Leach will automatically recruit California effectively is just something you're throwing out because you like Leach. You have no basis other than that.

Leach would have fared a little better in the North. But then you're expecting me to be impressed that a guy continued to do the same things over and over again to no avail (outside a couple seasons) in the South. Sounds like an innovative, adaptive football coach.

 

[White_Rabbit]

He would have had us battling Missouri for the right to get plowed by the Big 12 south winner every year I bet. So yet again, here we are at the same thing we've been saying all morning. He would be like Barnett, we'd beat the crappy teams and lose to the good teams. He's been better than average at beating everyone in the Big 12 except Texas and Oklahoma. He also would face much more difficulty since Colorado generally plays a pretty rough OOC schedule. At TT he played the likes of SE Louisiana State Tech for the first 4 games every year.

To assume that Leach would have ample success in recruiting the west coast is pure speculation on your part. At TT he probably rarely recruited anyone outside out Texas, why would he bother since he didn't have to. You might not know exactly how well someone will recruit a specific area, but you can base it on some probabilities.

 

[NashBuff]

Both, but you stipulate which ones are which. The idea that Mike Leach will automatically recruit California effectively is just something you're throwing out because you like Leach. You have no basis other than that.

Leach would have fared a little better in the North. But then you're expecting me to be impressed that a guy continued to do the same things over and over again to no avail (outside a couple seasons) in the South. Sounds like an innovative, adaptive football coach.

CU has recruited California for many years and that will not change regardless of who the coach is. Every coach that Mike Bohn interviews will be required to present him a list of assistant coaches that he would hire. Leach can get some west coast coaches on his staff in addition to ones from Texas and the midlands. Selling California kids on that offense wouldn't be a difficult task.

 

[Buffnik]

Why would Mike Leach in the North have been any different than Mark Mangino in the North?

Pretty much the same offense and coaching tree. Leach was just able to recruit the state of Texas better from Lubbock than Mangino was from Lawrence.

 

[NashBuff]

He would have had us battling Missouri for the right to get plowed by the Big 12 south winner every year I bet. So yet again, here we are at the same thing we've been saying all morning. He would be like Barnett, we'd beat the crappy teams and lose to the good teams. He's been better than average at beating everyone in the Big 12 except Texas and Oklahoma. He also would face much more difficulty since Colorado generally plays a pretty rough OOC schedule. At TT he played the likes of SE Louisiana State Tech for the first 4 games every year.

To assume that Leach would have ample success in recruiting the west coast is pure speculation on your part. At TT he probably rarely recruited anyone outside out Texas, why would he bother since he didn't have to. You might not know exactly how well someone will recruit a specific area, but you can base it on some probabilities.

If CU was to start winning like TT did under Leach, the best kids from both CA and TX would be beating down the door in Boulder to play for Leach.

I come from a Sooner family myself and what you guys fail to realize is that Leach's offense worked very well with a JUCO QB and WRs who were recruited to OU as option football players. Leach didn't spend much time at Kentucky either and look at what he did for UK and compare that to what UK was like before him and Hal Mumme came to Lexington. The man can coach and you cannot dispute that.

 

[leftybuff]

Why would Mike Leach in the North have been any different than Mark Mangino in the North?

Pretty much the same offense and coaching tree. Leach was just able to recruit the state of Texas better from Lubbock than Mangino was from Lawrence.

Leach could run, whereas Mangino sort of waddled....

 

[azbuff]

I'd take Leach. Wouldn't be my first choice, wouldn't be excited that we hired him, but wouldn't be pissed either.

Give EB 3 to 4 years and he will consistently win 8-10 games a season. I'm not sure he could win the "big ones", but I'm willing to take my chances. He would not be a failure.

 

[NashBuff]

Why would Mike Leach in the North have been any different than Mark Mangino in the North?

Pretty much the same offense and coaching tree. Leach was just able to recruit the state of Texas better from Lubbock than Mangino was from Lawrence.

If MM had more time at KU, it's very possible KU ends up winning more than losing unlike this season. MM and Leach are two very good coaches but I'd prefer Leach over MM anytime. Both are far better coaches than Hawkins is and that is why we are having this debate. Mike Stoops also comes from the Bob Stoops coaching tree and look at what Mike Stoops has done at UA, Leach at TT, and Magino at KU. Those three schools cannot hold a candle to CU when it comes to the history of football at those schools. The same could be said about Northwestern and Gary Barnett.

Leach will be able to do more at CU than TT. The question with ANY hire will be will it happen? If Leach fails at CU, you cannot fault Bohn for trying to bring in the best coaches. I will be bummed that Bohn is forced out as the CU AD as a result but that is the nature of the business.

 

[White_Rabbit]

If CU was to start winning like TT did under Leach, the best kids from both CA and TX would be beating down the door in Boulder to play for Leach.

I do not believe that is true at all, but ok.

Leach would be decent at CU. Not great, not awful. Decent. If that's what you want, so be it.

 

[NashBuff]

I'd take Leach. Wouldn't be my first choice, wouldn't be excited that we hired him, but wouldn't be pissed either.

Give EB 3 to 4 years and he will consistently win 8-10 games a season. I'm not sure he could win the "big ones", but I'm willing to take my chances. He would not be a failure.

I love what EB could do at CU but he never has been an OC at any level and that is the same issue that ultimately befalls Hawkins. Leach has been both an OC and HC. Leach was the OC for at least three schools (D2 Valdosta State in GA, Kentucky, and Oklahoma) and HC for one in Texas Tech.

Leach seems to be the safest hire.

 

[leftybuff]

I love what EB could do at CU but he never has been an OC at any level and that is the same issue that ultimately befalls Hawkins. Leach has been both an OC and HC. Leach was the OC for at least three schools (D2 Valdosta State in GA, Kentucky, and Oklahoma) and HC for one in Texas Tech.

Leach seems to be the safest hire.

You have heard this man in presser's haven't you? He'd be very entertaining, but the Boulder PC police would be on his *** from day one. I am not sure that kind of sideshow would be conducive to rebuilding the program D II Danny drove into the ground.

 

[SINKRATZ]

Nash are you his agent? Seriously. I admire you for completely going to the mat for the guy and I realize no one is going to talk you out of your feelings on this one, but you're like the guy running through the streets wearing a helmet and a straightjacket screaming that everyone else is crazy. I admire your persistence...personally Leach is way down my list.

 

[Duff Man]

If CU was to start winning like TT did under Leach, the best kids from both CA and TX would be beating down the door in Boulder to play for Leach.

Again, you keep throwing out statements like this with no real grounding in reality. Even when TT was winning under Leach, they weren't getting the best kids out of TX (outside of rare exceptions). But now you're saying he can get those top Texas recruits in an entirely different conference just because Boulder > Lubbock?

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

While I personally would enjoy Mike Leach in Boulder (admit it, his quirks would be entertaining in Boulder) I know that he would never be a candidate for the job - largely BECAUSE of those quirks.

 

[whatthebuff]

How about Tim Beckman? Coach of... Toledo!