um ... last time I checked 2nd or 3rd in conference isn't a champion of a conference..
Utah St probably wins it. BSU isn't that good. Who's left ?
Wyo ? UNLV ? NM ? AFA ? maybe SDSU ?? the MWC sucks.
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We are in trouble
- Thread starter absinthe
- Start date
um ... last time I checked 2nd or 3rd in conference isn't a champion of a conference..
Utah St probably wins it. BSU isn't that good. Who's left ?
Wyo ? UNLV ? NM ? AFA ? maybe SDSU ?? the MWC sucks.
Sorry, it's early and vision still blurry. See the nm that you quoted?
I see this result as mostly the byproduct of bad recruiting by Hawkins and Embree. HCMM has had what? One recruiting class where he wasn't picking up the pieces? We have no PRich on offense, a strange group of RBs, and a defense that's got big problems.
Ugh.
Ugh.
:lol: And so it begins.
There is some truth to this
This is what I think too. You could see this coming when you saw the late Hawk and Embree recruiting classes (especially after attrition). Not defending anyone, because I don't think we looked particularly well coached last night (and halftime adjustments seemed non-existent) but our players are just...nice people...but lack the total package. We have some fast guys...but they're little. We have some big guys, but they're slow or not very athletic, or still very wet behind the ears. Talent-wise this IS a mid-level MWC team...and the coach's challenge is to do well in the pac-12 with mid-MWC talent. That's tough. It's also tough to recruit from that position to get better talent. This is why crawling out of these sorts of holes is so tough for programs (otherwise teams in multi-year slumps could just snap their fingers and get out, but they don't. Once you get into that recruiting death spiral, the forces and trends are against you. If you have tons of cache, like, say, an Alabama it's easier, but we don't have that).
For those saying that coaches have to come from the power conferences to be successful in them, um...that's absolute malarkey. TONS of successful college coaches came up from lower divisions (Jim Tressel pops to mind right away). There is no hard and fast rule about this. HCMM's pedigree is also much more than his tenure at SJSU, he's, at least on paper, a good level hire for what CU could expect to get.
Finally, there's something so CU about these kind of games. Even when we are a very good program, we have done this. I will never forget the 1989 season, which seemed so magical, and then we lose to ND (out of nowhere it seemed) in the bowl game, then start the next season with so much hope and go 1-1-1 in our first three games. I couldn't believe it. That year it turned out ok though...haha.
I am sorry we aren't better yet. But man...we need some difference makers on the field and we need upgrades on both lines. The fact that we are starting the people we are is mostly what HCMM's choices are limited to. He's got to find a way to win with (for the most part) what's left of the Embree and Hawk players. If you look at the ones HCMM has found since he's gotten here, I am pretty pleased with those guys (they ARE kinda diamonds in the rough, or at least better than expected in terms of how they play on the field versus what the recruiting rankings would have led you to expect).
None of us wants to admit (me least of all) how long this turnaround might take or how many setbacks we might have to endure on the way. It DOES feel a bit like the climb back fromt he 1979 season a bit. And that took a while, and had plenty of setbacks. But changing coaches every 2 or 3 years probably isn't a good thing. Especially after you've already done it a few times. But when you are pissed off at a game like last night's, well, it's certainly understandable.
Changing coaches every 2 years is a program killer. We have to give him the full 4 years to get his players in, we do. Sorry if you feel otherwise. Mac has improved us over Embree, not hard to do but he has. He has a proven track record in D1 football of turning a program around once his system is in place. Unless he has a historically bad season as embree did (the only team to not win a game at folsom), then he needs to have his chance to fix this. That is going to take 4 years. If he ends this season poorly, his seat will get warm. If he ends next season poorly, his seat will be very hot. If the team has not made a competitive leap by the season after then he will be gone.
As fans we can demand winning right now. We can be upset when we lose. But this is a process that requires patience. I am sorry if you feel otherwise, but the way the CU admin has supported football over the years, the coaches have had little to work with. The support is changing and we are getting more of the pieces expected from a D1 football program, but we don't have them all yet.
As fans we can demand winning right now. We can be upset when we lose. But this is a process that requires patience. I am sorry if you feel otherwise, but the way the CU admin has supported football over the years, the coaches have had little to work with. The support is changing and we are getting more of the pieces expected from a D1 football program, but we don't have them all yet.
I should also add that the hardest position to come in and bring in new, quickly found, players is on both OL and DL. You can find a LB or a safety or a running back here and there hiding. Big lineman though...those people are spotted by everyone. Harder to find the "looked overs" for those positions. I don't think HCMM has anyone he recruited on either the OL or DL starting does he? Are any of them even playing yet? And that's the core of our team's athletic deficiency problems. The QB isn't his guy either.
I'm not trying to defend the coach. I am trying to be realistic about what he has to work with. How long should a guy have to upgrade the talent level? What's a reasonable expectation? (And before you say "The Rams don't have significantly better talent than CU", I beg to differ. That QB or that RB would have been starting for us too. Those OL guys would have too. Those LBs too. Hurts to say that...but it's true.
I'm not trying to defend the coach. I am trying to be realistic about what he has to work with. How long should a guy have to upgrade the talent level? What's a reasonable expectation? (And before you say "The Rams don't have significantly better talent than CU", I beg to differ. That QB or that RB would have been starting for us too. Those OL guys would have too. Those LBs too. Hurts to say that...but it's true.
Talent aside, it's very deflating when we were out-toughed and the other team wanted it more, and those are huge factors when 2 teams that are relatively equal square off. And we're talking about trying to get to 6 wins with what should be 3 virtual gimme non-conference games on the schedule.
FlatironsBuff
Well-Known Member
Bro, slow your roll. We talkin' 'bout Rice. RICE. Maybe if we get 5 wins......we can compete.
I wish we were that good. Rice won 10 games last year. I'm gonna make a noose now.
FlatironsBuff
Well-Known Member
Sorry. Thought the sarcasm/Iverson font was on.
Let's hire back Barnett....HS Seniors were what...5 years old at the time of the "scandal"...?
This era of CU football is old and tired. I'm apathetic when it comes to CU football. I used to have butterflies a week prior to our first game....I took a half day off on Friday....and stayed 2 hours later than I was supposed to because work deadlines were more interesting than the start of the CU football season.
We can't fire another coach after two seasons....we are going to have to let the MikeMac thing play itself out. Hopefully it will turn out well....it may not....if it doesn't, oh well, I have more important things to worry about.
Blech
This era of CU football is old and tired. I'm apathetic when it comes to CU football. I used to have butterflies a week prior to our first game....I took a half day off on Friday....and stayed 2 hours later than I was supposed to because work deadlines were more interesting than the start of the CU football season.
We can't fire another coach after two seasons....we are going to have to let the MikeMac thing play itself out. Hopefully it will turn out well....it may not....if it doesn't, oh well, I have more important things to worry about.
Blech
Wow we suck.
I didn't have a good feeling going into this game. Knew the DL would be abysmal after seeing our final depth chart. Knew the offense would struggle to create separation.
I revisited the Athlon Sports article in which Pac-12 coaches talked anonymously of our team:
“The best player was a defensive end, Chidera Uzo-Diribe, who’s gone. He was strong, one of their best players the last couple of years. Losing him will be big.”
“They’ve been really young the last few years, so if they can get the right personnel in there, they have a chance. They almost always have good first-half game plans."
The two bolded comments look to be the best of the bunch. Adjustments are really lacking. DL play is really lacking. Those two facts will haunt us all season. Only way Mac turns this around is by evaluating & firing his underperforming assistants. With SEC, ACC, NFL stints, he should have a much better coaching tree to pull from than say.. Hawkins. He also has to prevent attrition. Only way his recruiting turns us around is if our 2 deep is full of 21/22 year olds in 2 years.
Final thought: Was there any bigger disappointment than the student section?
I revisited the Athlon Sports article in which Pac-12 coaches talked anonymously of our team:
“The best player was a defensive end, Chidera Uzo-Diribe, who’s gone. He was strong, one of their best players the last couple of years. Losing him will be big.”
“They’ve been really young the last few years, so if they can get the right personnel in there, they have a chance. They almost always have good first-half game plans."
The two bolded comments look to be the best of the bunch. Adjustments are really lacking. DL play is really lacking. Those two facts will haunt us all season. Only way Mac turns this around is by evaluating & firing his underperforming assistants. With SEC, ACC, NFL stints, he should have a much better coaching tree to pull from than say.. Hawkins. He also has to prevent attrition. Only way his recruiting turns us around is if our 2 deep is full of 21/22 year olds in 2 years.
Final thought: Was there any bigger disappointment than the student section?
we didn't lose the game on adjustments, imho.
we lost it on talent, toughness, and execution.
college game plans can only be adjusted on the fly so much. this is about getting your ass kicked sideways and back and forward by the little guy in the corner of the bar.
we lost it on talent, toughness, and execution.
college game plans can only be adjusted on the fly so much. this is about getting your ass kicked sideways and back and forward by the little guy in the corner of the bar.
pcbuff
Well-Known Member
My thoughts
I tried to give my two cents this morning and for some reason it looks like it didn't get on the site. If this is repetitive I apologize.
1.) Stars matter. Their five star transfer running back was at a level higher than everyone else on the field. It wasn't a matter of if he would break it open, but when.
2.) Our line sucks and this problem has gone on long enough that someone needs to be canned. I can't remember a time when our D pressured the QB and this put a herculean task on the secondary.
3.) Our o line's only effective block is power run. Any attempt at misdirection, which is so critical in the spread, was blown up by excessive penetration. Again, I understand the chaos a first game firing creates, but in this case I think the message sent outweighs the chaos.
I like Sefo and Spruce.
This summer I spent a lot of time with top ten coaching staffs. They believe our staff doesn't understand what it takes. I am worried they were right.
We folded after the phantom pass interference. The momentum shift was too dramatic. We need a counter punch, and Our D coordinator seemed to keep the rush very vanilla.
It is painful right now. I am a fan and will cheer loudly when we win, and attempt to not bash the program in the interim.
Peace, out.
I tried to give my two cents this morning and for some reason it looks like it didn't get on the site. If this is repetitive I apologize.
1.) Stars matter. Their five star transfer running back was at a level higher than everyone else on the field. It wasn't a matter of if he would break it open, but when.
2.) Our line sucks and this problem has gone on long enough that someone needs to be canned. I can't remember a time when our D pressured the QB and this put a herculean task on the secondary.
3.) Our o line's only effective block is power run. Any attempt at misdirection, which is so critical in the spread, was blown up by excessive penetration. Again, I understand the chaos a first game firing creates, but in this case I think the message sent outweighs the chaos.
I like Sefo and Spruce.
This summer I spent a lot of time with top ten coaching staffs. They believe our staff doesn't understand what it takes. I am worried they were right.
We folded after the phantom pass interference. The momentum shift was too dramatic. We need a counter punch, and Our D coordinator seemed to keep the rush very vanilla.
It is painful right now. I am a fan and will cheer loudly when we win, and attempt to not bash the program in the interim.
Peace, out.
CSU does not have more talent, in-game coaching is absolutely what lost us the game.
And PC you say a bunch of coaches are saying MacIntyre doesn't have what it takes (which I find hard to believe based on other comments from PAC 12 coaches), but Tom Osborne thinks MacIntyre is a coaching superstar.
Didn't Bill McCartney say that about Dan Hawkins?
HCMM has not proven he and his staff know what it takes at this level. He, however, unlike HaLk, should have at least seen what it takes during his career.
2 full staffs have been fired already. part of the reason we are in this mess in the first place.
I know who I want to fire. I think I'm excited about firing 2-3 guys, but wouldn't mind seeing half or more the assistants go after the season, depending on the replacements.
SECOBuffsFan
Active Member
Staff upgrades are needed
You must not keep up with college football that closely. Staff changes are quite common. Florida State replaced nearly half of their assistants and won the natty
My point was that the DL is a problem of multiple staffs, not just this one. If we can upgrade the staff at the end of season than we should.
Comparing anything we are doing to a financial and football juggernaut like FSU is silly. They don't have to search too hard to get people lined up for vacant positions.
One would hope, but his comments on recruiting say otherwise (i.e, it is not just coachspeak).
You really are slow. Let me help you with some nuance. Smart coaches always say great things about their in conference rival coaches when they know they own those coaches. This is a tradition going back decades. Why would a smart coach bad mouth a guy he knows he can lay a beat down on every year? Use your head. I know from personal experience this occurs.
Tom Osborne is the anti-Buff. He hates our program and spent much of his working career trying to **** us over. And more importantly who gives a **** what he thinks?
Now let's turn to this notion of in-game adjustments. Some things can be done of course, but not nearly as much as drooling fans like you believe. Nth is isn't the nfl. The staff gets limited time to work with them and the less experienced your team, the harder it is to make big in game adjustments.
Finally, and this is well before your time, you know who was a really ****ty game day adjuster? The real coach Mac. We'd scream and yell about his lack of adjustments too. But you know why he won so much? Recruiting, motivation, and a vision of how to win.
Sorry but you've crossed over into the land of obstinately naive now.