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We now take you to Ann Arbor Michigan

Pilotbuff said:
There seems to be a pattern here with Michigan and in particular Mr. Harbaugh. I think it’s one thing to set up to the line but it’s another to bend the line and certainly a problem when you cross the line. I think we are starting to see a pattern of Michigan going beyond the line, if just barely, but beyond the line nether the less. When you start to add up all the, just beyond the line infractions, and the NCAA has yet to determine that, it doesn’t take much to see that Michigan/Harbaugh is willing to cross lines if even just barely.
If you don’t take a stand against Michigan/Harbaugh now when does the line crossing stop? On merit, is this really any different than when the Astros stole signs during the playoffs and World Series? In baseball, there has always been signs, disguised as a way of telling pitchers and base runners what to do instead of just yelling out, “throw the fastball down and in.” When does sign stealing cross the line of an unfair advantage? Would tapping into an OC’s headset and hearing the play in real time be an unfair advantage? Because if you know the hand signals it’s essentially the same thing.
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El Gringo said:
Ah, so it’s not to prevent “giving” the bigger schools a financial advantage, rather to prevent the bigger schools from taking advantage of their greater resources. That makes sense. Thanks.
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Same thing in Baseball in that you can only have 2 paid assistants. Think there is around 300 D1 baseball schools and most of them do not have the budget for 3 paid coachs
 
Liver said:
the ncaa will probably be so upset with michigan it will give michigan state the death penalty.
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Ill Allow It Spanish GIF
 
MtnBuff is a Michigan homer. This particular infraction is very on brand for Michigan. Folks need to check out Michigan’s performance against the spread during the Harbaugh era pre 2021, and then post 2021 when they started cheating. They were sub-500 pre 2021 and about 22-11 since then.
 
Buffman64 said:
MtnBuff is a Michigan homer. This particular infraction is very on brand for Michigan. Folks need to check out Michigan’s performance against the spread during the Harbaugh era pre 2021, and then post 2021 when they started cheating. They were sub-500 pre 2021 and about 22-11 since then.
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No, at no point in this discussion have I said that Michigan doesn't deserve everything coming to them for this.

They cheated, and it isn't the first time they have cheated and this isn't even the first school their coach has cheated at.

The record I think is more about talent than stealing signs. The record has gotten better as the talent has gotten better but we also know that they were cheating during Covid to get talent so what would make anybody sure that they haven't been cheating more than the times they got caught.

My only point is that in the big scheme of things this cheating probably hasn't made a huge difference. Again if Indiana or Northwestern were doing it they would still be losing games.

The wouldn't have done it though if they didn't think it gave them some advantage though and even one or two games means that they are in a second level bowl instead of the playoffs.
 
MtnBuff said:
No, at no point in this discussion have I said that Michigan doesn't deserve everything coming to them for this.

They cheated, and it isn't the first time they have cheated and this isn't even the first school their coach has cheated at.

The record I think is more about talent than stealing signs. The record has gotten better as the talent has gotten better but we also know that they were cheating during Covid to get talent so what would make anybody sure that they haven't been cheating more than the times they got caught.

My only point is that in the big scheme of things this cheating probably hasn't made a huge difference. Again if Indiana or Northwestern were doing it they would still be losing games.

The wouldn't have done it though if they didn't think it gave them some advantage though and even one or two games means that they are in a second level bowl instead of the playoffs.
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You are such a Michigan apologist. You always have been.
 
MtnBuff said:
My only point is that in the big scheme of things this cheating probably hasn't made a huge difference. Again if Indiana or Northwestern were doing it they would still be losing games.
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Uh. Wut

If you know exactly which play a team is a calling an audible to, does that not give a *HUGE* advantage to the D?

Basically the biggest advantage that the offense has is that the defense has to react to them, not the other way around
 
It’s impossible to say what the tangible benefit has been for Michigan, but that’s kind of beside the point here. Just like free tattoos didn’t actually help Ohio State win games or some family benefits for Reggie Bush didn’t help SC win games, those programs had the hammer dropped. This was actual on-field cheating and we have people trying to excuse it because “they probably would have won anyway”.

**** that. Show cause for Harbaugh, postseason ban for 5 years, reduction of scholarships by 20 for 5 years. All current players get to transfer for free regardless of whether they’ve already transferred and it also doesn’t count against their one time transfer. Drop the ****ing hammer and send a message, NCAA, you gutless ****s!
 
Buffman64 said:
You are such a Michigan apologist. You always have been.
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Don't know where you have gotten that but you are nuts. You have me confused with somebody else.

If you think I am a Michigan apologist because I keep and will keep calling out Penn State for Sandusky, Michigan State for Nasser (and other issues,) Nebraska for decades of abuse, Ohio State for Gym Jordan, etc. then that's on you not on me.

I called out Michigan and Harbaugh for the recruiting violations during Covid, I pointed out how often Harbaugh had failed against the top teams in the conference prior to the recent turnaround.

A Michigan apologist, that is simply hilarious.
 
Fred 2 said:
I’m not getting this stealing signs thing! So what? If you can’t hide them that’s a you problem! people have been stealing signs for over a 100 yrs. That’s part of sports! This is the dumbest issue and overblown bs. Btw, I’m not a harbaugh fan but this is getting stupid
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I can't even imagine how many years you've been stealing oxygen!
 
Uncle Ken said:
Off the top of my head, there are three advantages in football:

1. Talent

2. Coaching (building skills of that talent)

3. Deception

Taking away deception that exists in play-calling and play design feels like an enormous advantage. Particularly when playing teams with similar talent.
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You forgot Altitude
 
Buffman64 said:
MtnBuff is a Michigan homer. This particular infraction is very on brand for Michigan. Folks need to check out Michigan’s performance against the spread during the Harbaugh era pre 2021, and then post 2021 when they started cheating. They were sub-500 pre 2021 and about 22-11 since then.
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MtnBuff said:
No, at no point in this discussion have I said that Michigan doesn't deserve everything coming to them for this.

They cheated, and it isn't the first time they have cheated and this isn't even the first school their coach has cheated at.

The record I think is more about talent than stealing signs. The record has gotten better as the talent has gotten better but we also know that they were cheating during Covid to get talent so what would make anybody sure that they haven't been cheating more than the times they got caught.

My only point is that in the big scheme of things this cheating probably hasn't made a huge difference. Again if Indiana or Northwestern were doing it they would still be losing games.

The wouldn't have done it though if they didn't think it gave them some advantage though and even one or two games means that they are in a second level bowl instead of the playoffs.
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Buffman64 said:
You are such a Michigan apologist. You always have been.
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Impressive being able to draw this conclusion on one of AllBuffs most storied posters from all the info gained since…August 2023
 
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