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Why you don't go negative on recruits after they commit elsewhere
- Thread starter Buffnik
- Start date
nocoolnamejim
Well-Known Member
Side-conversation
As I said, longtime lurker. In particular, I've seen a lot of the comments in the recruit threads of kids that both schools are going after. Even your comment here shows it. "don't even (know) Boise exist(s)" and "it is difficult to respect a team that plays a cupcake schedule year in and year out" show that you both A. Know that Boise State exists and B. Have a negative opinion on the program.
Hard to claim that you both don't know a program exists while simultaneously ripping on it in the same post.
Without derailing the thread too much:
1. An incredibly common assumption is that Boise State PREFERS to play a "cupcake schedule" year in and year out. The available data contradicts this. Boise State does not have a magic conference change wand. It can't simply WILL itself into a different conference. An INVITE needs to be available. That's why, when tougher conferences have been available, Boise State has ALWAYS gone to them. In the last fifteen years alone...Big West, then WAC, then MWC, and now the Big East.
Boise State was originally going to join the MWC with Utah and BYU back in 2003, but then TCU swooped in at the last moment and took the spot. Then when Boise State DID join the MWC, Utah, TCU and BYU all left. Not much you can do about that.
I can assure you that if the Big-12 asked us to join tomorrow, Boise State would accept instantly.
2. Hard to say you're unaware of a program existing when it has finished in the top-25 pretty much every year for the last ten years. Got to be seriously uninformed as a college football fan to be unaware of a program that has been that good for over a decade. If anything, if you want to rip on Boise State, you should stick to things like "truck driver school" and the like because over the last decade or so, Boise State has been far, FAR more relevant than Colorado on the national scene for football.
And yes, to another silly reply, I'm aware that Boise isn't a state. Just like the Big-12 doesn't have twelve teams, the Big-10 doesn't have ten teams and the Big-East is a pretty silly name for a conference that is going to have Boise State and San Diego State (also not a state) in it.
Name recognition and branding matters and both University of Idaho and Idaho State are already taken by other universities anyway.
As I said, longtime lurker. In particular, I've seen a lot of the comments in the recruit threads of kids that both schools are going after. Even your comment here shows it. "don't even (know) Boise exist(s)" and "it is difficult to respect a team that plays a cupcake schedule year in and year out" show that you both A. Know that Boise State exists and B. Have a negative opinion on the program.
Hard to claim that you both don't know a program exists while simultaneously ripping on it in the same post.
Without derailing the thread too much:
1. An incredibly common assumption is that Boise State PREFERS to play a "cupcake schedule" year in and year out. The available data contradicts this. Boise State does not have a magic conference change wand. It can't simply WILL itself into a different conference. An INVITE needs to be available. That's why, when tougher conferences have been available, Boise State has ALWAYS gone to them. In the last fifteen years alone...Big West, then WAC, then MWC, and now the Big East.
Boise State was originally going to join the MWC with Utah and BYU back in 2003, but then TCU swooped in at the last moment and took the spot. Then when Boise State DID join the MWC, Utah, TCU and BYU all left. Not much you can do about that.
I can assure you that if the Big-12 asked us to join tomorrow, Boise State would accept instantly.
2. Hard to say you're unaware of a program existing when it has finished in the top-25 pretty much every year for the last ten years. Got to be seriously uninformed as a college football fan to be unaware of a program that has been that good for over a decade. If anything, if you want to rip on Boise State, you should stick to things like "truck driver school" and the like because over the last decade or so, Boise State has been far, FAR more relevant than Colorado on the national scene for football.
And yes, to another silly reply, I'm aware that Boise isn't a state. Just like the Big-12 doesn't have twelve teams, the Big-10 doesn't have ten teams and the Big-East is a pretty silly name for a conference that is going to have Boise State and San Diego State (also not a state) in it.
Name recognition and branding matters and both University of Idaho and Idaho State are already taken by other universities anyway.
**** you for dan hawkins :lol:
Welcome to the board. **** Boise!
nocoolnamejim
Well-Known Member
Not our fault you stole the wrong coach! Think about how you'd be doing right now if you stole Coach Pete instead.
***k you for Dan Hawkins!
Deserves to be repeated.
nocoolnamejim
Well-Known Member
He's better at certain things than others. Pete was always a lot better coach while both were here. Hawk was really good at working the media and fundraising. (At least when he was here.) He enjoyed the spotlight a lot more than Pete did.
But...sorry about that. In our defense, we did TRY to keep him here and spare you that. Just couldn't compete with what you could offer!
~~
Of course they would. And if Julie Bowen asked me to dinner, I'd accept instantly too!
And there is a reason why, when the schools were leaving the Big 12 like rats from a sinking ship, and Texas was the second most desperate dater "in" Austin, frantically looking for someone to join the Big 12, that they didn't consider Boise for a second. And it has nothing to do with Boise currently being relevent in college football because they clearly are. It's because they wouldn't bring any value to the Big 12 TV contract, and in fact, would take much more from the deal than they would give. Did Texas pick West Virginia because they are better than Boise? No, they picked them because they bring more "value" to the TV deal than Boise would.
So, enjoy the fact that Boise is probably going to be an in AQ conference and stop getting your panties in a bunch on a CU board.
I did love it when you beat OU. That was a great game.He's better at certain things than others. Pete was always a lot better coach while both were here. Hawk was really good at working the media and fundraising. (At least when he was here.) He enjoyed the spotlight a lot more than Pete did.
But...sorry about that. In our defense, we did TRY to keep him here and spare you that. Just couldn't compete with what you could offer!
nocoolnamejim
Well-Known Member
Now I'm a little slow due to my vocational school education, but I'm detecting a theme that the Dan Hawkins era was not considered to be a rousing success by the Colorado fanbase! :lol:
I don't think he would have left. If I've got my facts remembered correctly, he has a son in poor health and doesn't even like to travel much for recruiting. Someone told me that UCLA had a real shot at him this year mostly because the primary doctor took a job at UCLA.
Beyond that, he's happy and not the type to risk that chasing the ego gratification of running the program at one of the big school elites.
Does that capture it pretty well?
He's better at certain things than others. Pete was always a lot better coach while both were here. Hawk was really good at working the media and fundraising. (At least when he was here.) He enjoyed the spotlight a lot more than Pete did.
But...sorry about that. In our defense, we did TRY to keep him here and spare you that. Just couldn't compete with what you could offer!
Hawkins is a fraud. The only thing he ever delivered on was having the ego you need to be the head man.
nocoolnamejim
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree with any of that. The Big-12 was always a huge long shot. That's kind of my point. Original post I was replying to said that Boise State needed to hurry and join the Big-12. My point being that such a thing is not exactly within my school's control. It's like telling me that I need to hurry up and arrange a foursome between me, my wife, Scarlet Johansson and Natalie Portman. I can get to work on that, but it's not exactly like I can WISH REAL HARD and have it happen.
In essence, I was saying that the person I was replying to was creating an unfair and unrealistic standard to achieve. Ideally, Boise State would love to be where you guys are...in the Pac-12. But most rational Boise State fans realize that, regardless of our football success, we have some work to do in terms of other areas like academics, overall athletic reputation, TV market, etc. I would argue that my school has a broader TV pull than just our our local TV market (which really SHOULD be calculated as the entire state of Idaho and not just Boise metro and the a few parts of places like Utah, Nevada, etc. but I digress.)
Not getting my panties in a bunch. I acknowledge that there were other candidates that brought more to the table where the Big-12 is concerned than my school, despite our on the field success. I was rebutting a specific point about the implication that Boise State VOLUNTARILY plays a bunch of cupcakes and prefers to do so rather than "hurrying up and joining a REAL conference to play big boy football".
My problem with Boise State scheduling is that you haven't been willing to take 1-for-2s to beef up the schedule. If you're really a top program and you're playing the the WAC or MWC, you need to do that and make sure you get 3 good BCS programs on your non-conference schedule. This is because the other 9 weeks you're playing teams that the BCS programs consider "C" opponents (with maybe a couple "B" teams mixed in depending on the year).
I'm with you then. I don't think Boise prefers playing a weak schedule. Most of it is due to a relatively weak conference, which can't necessarily be helped (and hopefully improved with the move) and some of it is because the big boys either don't want to play them, or certainly won't do a home-home due to the loss of revenue from playing in Boise.
All that said, I can assure you that you dodged a bullet by not being in the Big Tex, er, Big 12 conference.
nocoolnamejim
Well-Known Member
Mostly. The UCLA thing is a total falsehood. They were never in the running for him and the doctor thing is a load of crap. But otherwise, yes. Think about the unique things about Boulder, Colorado that make you guys love it. (For example, in a recruit thread I was lurking a while back, somebody posted panoramic shots of both Boise and Boulder and I have to admit that Boulder is absolutely breathtaking. From the air it's just so much greener and more scenic than Boise in those particular shots.)
The amount of money you can offer an individual is ONE FACTOR in determining where that individual wants to be. There are other things other than simply the amount of money that play in. I alluded to how beautiful Boulder is. Is this not a selling point that is an advantage that you guys have that other places might not have? Same thing with Pete and Boise State. A lot of folks think they just need to throw a sufficiently high amount of money out there and that's all there is to it.
What's lost is the same thing from my first post on the site: that people are looking for different things. Some people, for instance, would LOVE to live in LA and be able to watch the Lakers, bump into Marlon Brando at a local gas station or whatever. For Pete, there are a few jobs that would really worry me...but the list is pretty small.
Colorado, for what it's worth, is the sort of spot that would have worried me a few years back. Don't think he'd go there now because of the rebuilding project and, no offense, he's turned down better offers. Stanford last offseason REALLY worried me. Penn State WOULD HAVE worried me before the scandal. I honestly wondered if they were going to make a run at him when JoePa finally retired over the last couple of years. Oregon would be my biggest nightmare. Cal would be one he'd consider, but he'd never accept places that you'd expect like USC, Florida, etc.
nocoolnamejim
Well-Known Member
That gets down to finances really. This is a pretty common issue that a lot of folks have with Boise State's schedule. They look at what, for example, Florida State did once upon a time and say, in essence, "Go do that and we'll take you seriously."
But to be perfectly frank, BSU can't really afford to do that sort of thing. We NEED that home game revenue. Someone mentioned TV contract money earlier in the thread here. We were basically making about 1.5M per year in our TV contract. (Varies a bit between WAC and MWC, but that's the ballpark figure.) That MWC contract is locked in until 2016. 2016!
Compare that to the $20M a year or so that AQ teams make depending on AQ conference. Heck, even going to the Big East as a football only member, we're looking at a jump of AT LEAST to 8-10M a year when they get their new deal.
Now think about the populations of Colorado vs. Idaho. State funding doesn't exactly bridge the gap. Boise State has done something a little unusual in that they grew VERY fast to elite football levels, but without an elite infrastructure. We don't have a bunch of rich alumni. We're not a major media market. We're not in a recruiting hotbed. Don't have a beautiful warm climate with lots of beaches. Not a huge population of taxpayers to get a lot of state funding. Small and outdated stadium. etc.
Two-for-Ones sets things like stadium expansion and facilities improvement that are needed to make ourselves an attractive candidate for a better conference way back. (Which in turn means we don't get the better TV money...vicious circle.)
The proof is what you've seen the last couple of years when other schools have been willing to work WITH US to make the money work. For example, we've been willing to do one-and-dones with schools like Va Tech and Georgia on, essentially, their home turf if they're give us enough so that we're not taking a major financial hit doing so.
Basically, the standard that Boise State has asked for is EITHER 1M in guaranteed payout for a one-and-done. (Which is what schools pay cupcakes to come and take a beating for) OR a return game. And this is just for financial reasons.
If I hadn't hated you and your cosmetology school before, making me think about that would have done it....
I call BS on this. Boise has options other than playing home cupcakes. If Boise is a legit contender they will be willing to prove they are a contender. Fresno for a period of time was well known for the idea that they would play anyone, anywhere. If you want to prove yourselves suck up you pride and go play a money game at Ohio State or Michigan, take the dollars and play at LSU. If Wyoming can schedule Texas, Tennessee and Nebraska Boise can play real teams on the OOC schedule. If not, don't complain when you don't get invited to BCS bowls or taken seriously.
The Guest
Guest
For the record, most CU fans hate Big Bang 2 a lot more than they hate Boise State.
:lol:
Here's an article from the Tacoma paper on the subject with several recruits, including, Walker, quoted: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/01/08/1974157/rejected-fans-nastiness-a-nuisance.html
There was also an update on Walker's recruitment. Bielema is doing his in-home on Friday and UDub is trying to ignite interest with him.
There was also an update on Walker's recruitment. Bielema is doing his in-home on Friday and UDub is trying to ignite interest with him.
I'm astounded that people think they don't have responsibility/influence.
"To be honest, every time I think of UW, I think of their nasty fans – more so than Oregon."
That has to be the ultimate slap-down for UDub fans. :smile2:
SuperiorBuff
Well-Known Member
Welcome, but I don't buy that. The last 3 coaches poached from Boise have failed, not just D2.
BehindEnemyLines
beware the habu
I dunno. I think Petey is a lot better than the 3 previous HC's that went elsewhere.
SuperiorBuff
Well-Known Member
They said that each time too. The current is better than the old guy.