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Would an Automatic Bid for the Mnt West Impact CU?

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by CsquaredCC, Apr 18, 2009.

  1. CsquaredCC

    CsquaredCC Well-Known Member

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    I wanted to get a CU fan's perspective as too whether they thought a MWC bid would have any impact on the program at CU?

    I have argued that the Big 12 will be campaigning heavily against letting the MWC into the BCS because of the proximity in location of MWC programs to those of the Big 12 North programs. I think a BCS bid would increase the viability of programs like BYU, Utah, Wyoming, New Mexico, and CSU due to the annual exposure and payouts BCS games generate and allow for quicker improvements in facilities at those programs.

    I have also argued that impact of a MWC bid could effect CU the most of any Big 12 program. Six new BCS programs with access to BCS money would exist with 600 miles of their campus making in-state and regional recruiting far more competitive. Thoughts?

    Full Disclosure: I am a CSU season ticket holder, but am by no means here to flame the board. I just thought it was an interesting topic that could have an effect on both school's programs.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. BuffsRising

    BuffsRising Well-Known Member

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    Frankly, no. A BCS bowl would give each MWC team about $2 million each, at the most, and that's not enough to really close the gap between say, CSU and CU in terms of facilities. And we really don't recruit against you that much, let alone BYU, Air Force, Wyoming, etc.

    If you started beating us on the field again, that would help you guys, but its going to be a while before Fairchild gets you going.
     
  3. Clean Undies

    Clean Undies Flagship of the 12-Pac Club Member

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    I'd argue an automatic BCS birth to the MWC wouldn't impact CU very much.

    The underlying economics for the MWC wouldn't change that much. The TV markets served by the MWC wouldn't become larger or more lucrative. The distance between MWC schools wouldn't become any closer. The traditions and academic quality wouldn't change. These are all factors in the recruitment process. These are also important drivers for lucrative network coverage. I doubt football fans east of the Mississippi would watch more MWC games, just as people in the Mountain time zone don't care about Big East or ACC football now.

    All that would change is a guaranteed BCS birth in a January bowl game. How the BCS money is allocated among MWC schools matters little to CU.

    You could argue that TCU or SDSU would prosper in the BCS the most, due to their locations in major TV markets, and would make it tougher for CSU to have a winning record within their own conference.

    You could also argue CU fans would want to ease up on their OOC schedule if CSU all of a sudden became a BCS school. If other B12 schools only play one BCS school, why should CU play CSU and some other BCS program before facing conference play?
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2009
  4. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    I disagree with you douche bags. Look at this year. CU plays the rammies and cabooies. If the MWC were a BCS conference, our kicking each of there asses would be a feather in our cap.
     
  5. Dunken

    Dunken Member

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    NO it would not......GO BUFFS!!!!!!!!
     
  6. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    It might make OCC scheduling a little more regional. Two games against MWC teams instead of the traditional one. Other than that, I don't think it would have much impact on CU.
     
  7. The Guest

    The Guest Guest

    I suspect a BCS/MWC affiliation could potentially create genuine challenges for CU in the recruiting realm.

    The Mountain West demonstrated that it could hang with the big boys in out-of-conference play this last season. The MWC's early success early in the season against pretty much the entire PAC 10 coupled with the bowl shockers demonstrated that the conference's teams were up to the standard--at least at that moment in time.

    In my mind the Mountain West faces two significant challenges to consistently winning recruiting battles with the bigger name BCS programs. The first issue is television coverage. The Mountain West doesn't get enough. The second is the Conference prestige. How many CU players say "I just wanted to play some Big XII football"? You hear it all the time.

    Providing the MWC a BCS affiliation would go a long way to improving the conference's reputation and prestige. How that affects CU really depends where our program is if the MWC becomes a BCS conference. If CU has returned to the national spotlight where our school's name sufficiently draws attention from top level recruits than CU shouldn't be too challenged by the top MWC teams. However, if the program remains mired in mediocrity, we could lose some major recruiting battles to Utah, BYU and whoever else might be sitting at the top of the conference.

    Ultimately an MWC BCS slot would further distribute the talent pool by creating a larger number of attractive suitors. The victims would be the lower half of the BCS teams. Let's hope that's not CU.
     
  8. sliderNcider

    sliderNcider MacLovin Club Member

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    I think it would. Kids want to play for championships, and if the MWC had an auto-bid, the MWC could recruit much, much better athletes IMO. This would close the talent gap.
     
  9. azbuff

    azbuff Club Member Club Member

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    If the damn MWC gets an automatic bid, CU should switch conferences because we would win that automatic bid at least five times every ten years.

    No, I don't think CU should actually switch conferences, but the MWC would be by far the weakest of the BCS conference and it pisses me off that they genuinely think they are entitled to an automatic BCS bid. Yes, Utah has had some good teams recently. Anyone here think one of those good Utah teams could have won a Big 12 Championship? I, for one, seriously doubt it.
     
  10. stampy

    stampy Well-Known Member

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    I would be opposed to the MWC getting a stand-alone bid because as many have already pointed out, as a conference it just isn't strong enough to deserve it.

    I would be open to a shared WAC/MWC bid or maybe a WAC/MWC/USA bid where the best team out of those two or three conferences was awarded a BCS slot. There is usually one team out of those that is worthy of a BCS bid.
     
  11. fatbuff

    fatbuff Well-Known Member

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    **** the Mountain Worst, and the pussies in it.
     
  12. 66BUFF

    66BUFF FTW Club Member

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    yank the big east bid and combine them with the WAC/mwc for a shared bid
     
  13. Crash Davis

    Crash Davis MA....THE MEATLOAF!!! Club Member

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    The bottom line is there shouldn't be automatic bids at all. The champs of conferences like the Big 12 and SEC are going to be strong enough to get in most years anyway. The only time the automatic bid really matters for those conferences is when some 8-4 team sneaks into the CCG and pulls off the upset, and why the hell does that 8-4 team deserve an automatic BCS slot any more than a MWC or WAC champ?

    There are 5 BCS bowl games. The slots should go to the top 10 teams in the final BCS standings. Period. Maybe keep the 2-teams per conference max, but that's it.
     
  14. BuffsRising

    BuffsRising Well-Known Member

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    Way too rational. Also, you're forgetting the whole purpose of the BCS, and that's to allow the haves to hoard money and tv exposure for themselves. True competition isn't gonna happen without a clean playoff, and maybe not even then if the big boys rig the selection committee.
     
  15. SINKRATZ

    SINKRATZ Club Member Club Member

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    I'm against it for two very selfish reasons:

    First, The conferences of BCS bowl teams get money depending on how many teams from that conference play in BCS bowls - if one more conference gets an automatic bid, that means the likelihood of getting 2 Big 12 teams into a BCS bowl goes down and CU gets less money.

    Second, I'm against anything that could be good for CSU.
     
  16. CsquaredCC

    CsquaredCC Well-Known Member

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    I feel confident in saying that Utah would absolutely have won the Big 12 North last year. The Big 12 Championship game? Not likely. But the Big 12 North champion hasn't really been all that competitive in the championship game for a few years now.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  17. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    I totally agree. Automatic conference bids need to go. That would solve most of the problem right there.
     
  18. CsquaredCC

    CsquaredCC Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't agree more. The current system creates a clear competitive and financial advantage to those programs that reside in BCS conferences. Your idea would go a long ways in solving that problem and eliminate those advantages. Iowa State is a good example. They clearly aren't a BCS caliber program, yet they continue to reap the benefits of being affiliated with a BCS conference.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  19. sliderNcider

    sliderNcider MacLovin Club Member

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    Just found some interesting re: the MWC. Looks like a lot of people don't care IMO

    BYU: had the highest average attendance at 65,000 (27th)
    Utah: 42,500 (54th)
    Air Force: 38,000 (62nd)
    TCU: 30,000 (77th)
    New Mexico: 29,750 (78th)
    UNLV: 29,000 (80th)
    San Diego St: 28,000 (82nd)
    Wyoming: 20,000 (87th)
    CSU: LMAO @ the lammies 18,000 (88th):lol:

    Attendance isn't everything but I still thought that was pretty interesting
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  20. sweaty teets

    sweaty teets Club Member Club Member

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    pretty surprised at BYU. them people sure know how to get down.
     
  21. CsquaredCC

    CsquaredCC Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I think there is a strong argument to be made that CU would have won the MWC conference only one time (2001) since the inception of the conference 10 years ago.

    1999 - CU 7-5 Overall (Lost to CSU/CSU Thee Way Tie for MWC Champ.)
    2000 - CU 3-8 Overall (Lost to CSU/CSU MWC Champion)
    2001 - CU 10-3 Overall (BYU 12-0 Conference Record)
    2002 - CU 9-5 Overall (Lost to CSU/CSU MWC Champion)
    2003 - CU 5-7 Overall (Utah 10-2 Overall)
    2004 - CU 8-4 Overall (Utah 12-0/BCS Win)
    2005 - CU 7-6 Overall (TCU 11-1 Overall)
    2006 - CU 2-10 Overall (BYU 10-2 Overall)
    2007 - CU 6-7 Overall (BYU 10-2 Overall)
    2008 - CU 5-7 Overall (Utah 13-0 Overall/BCS Win)
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  22. CsquaredCC

    CsquaredCC Well-Known Member

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    MWC definitely has a ways to go on the attendance front. No question. Even so, the numbers don't look terribly different to those of the Big East:

    West Virginia = 60,400
    South Florida = 53,170
    Rugters = 43,663
    Louisville = 39,884
    UConn = 38,205
    Syracuse = 35,000
    Pitt = 33,300
    Cincinnati = 30,200

    I don't think it is too much of a stretch to think that a BCS bid would lure better opponents to MWC stadiums and increase attendance to figures similar to the levels of Big East programs.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  23. CarolinaBuff

    CarolinaBuff Weekend Poster Club Member

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    :yeahthat:

    Every time this discussion comes that's how I say it should be done. No auto bids. The one part of what you said that I disagree with is the part about the 2-team max per conference, that's one of the biggest problems with the BCS. Not to mention the total stupidity of that rule. :rolleyes:

    OK, so the payout to the BCS conferences is the issue. Simple answer - simply guarantee each of the BCS conferences at least the equivalent of a 1-team payout even if one of their teams doesn't qualify for a BCS bowl. :doh:

    :thumbsup:
     
  24. Clean Undies

    Clean Undies Flagship of the 12-Pac Club Member

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    It's ok by me if ISU or KSU or OSU left the B12 to make room for CSU.

    1) Having an other B12 school in the Mountain time zone would make Invesco a more likely candidate to host the conference championship game.

    2) It would be nice if CU had one conference foe within a day's round trip drive.

    3) CU could have more latitude in it's OOC scheduling.

    But for this to happen, CSU fans would have to step up and prove that Rams are more lucrative to the networks and the conference than the Clowns, Pussies, and Pokie Lite.

    I'm not convinced CSU is more lucrative than what Ames, Manhattan and Stillwater bring to the table. Sub 20K attendence and a share of the Denver media market isn't going to cut it. CSU has to prove football passions extend beyond the RMS/CU rivalry game.

    The premise of this thread smacks of an other CSU handout plea involving big brother. This topic would go over like a fart in church if asked on any other B12 school's fan board.
     
  25. 92Buff

    92Buff Well-Known Member

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    Farts in church are funny. :smile2:
     
  26. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    Comparing record of Big XII teams against MWC teams is like comparing battleships against tugboats. What the MWC fans do not get, or want to get, is that we are talking about a completely different season of football.

    Clearly a highly motivated MWC team can beat a BCS team that has lost it's motivation for the season like Utah did last year. That does not change the fact that if Utah had been in the Big XII North last year they would have had at least 3 and probably more losses. Mizzou thumps them, they lose at least one if not two to their south opponents. They also wear down because they do not have the size and depth to stay in against Big XII (or SEC, or Big X, or PAC 10) teams when playing week after week. To think that Utah played a comparable schedule last year is a complete joke. Their OCC included a terrible Michigan team that they barely beat, a middle of the road PAC 10 team that they barely beat at home and two (yes TWO) division 1AA teams. Their best competition in conference was a BYU team that got hammered in it's bowl game by a mediocre Arizona team and TCU team with virtually no offense. The rest of their schedule, the mighty Wyo Cowboys, NM Lobos, SDSU, UNLV, CSU, etc. Continue in your fantasies if you want to but CU would kick butt in the MWC until the players stopped coming because they want to play in a major conference.

    All this aside, I am also tired of the mid-majors constantly looking for a financial handout from the schools that generate the real revenue. The attendance numbers for the MWC have been posted earlier, what they don't mention is that these numbers are generated at substantially lower average ticket prices than those in the BCS conferences.

    Even if the Big East schools only average about 10,000 more fans per game, boost average ticket price by even $10.00 which is low based on the couple of team sites I looked at and you have a huge difference in revenue. Even greater is the difference in TV revenues, the TV markets in the Big East dwarf those in the MWC. There is a reason that if not invited to the BCS the MWC champ plays in a minor bowl in Las Vegas, nobody outside the conference really cares and the market in conference is not big enough to matter.

    Face reality, major college football is not about being nice and sharing. It is about making money. The BCS is set up for one reason, to make the most money for those schools that have the ability to generate the most money. When the mid-majors can prove that they can generate the dollars they will be invited to the club like Louiseville did. Nobody wants to give welfare to a bunch of minor players. CSU and the rest of the MWC needs to show that they can bring the dollars to the table in the form of TV ratings, ticket sales, and all the other revenues.

    Until then they need to shut up and stop begging...
     
  27. CsquaredCC

    CsquaredCC Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Apr 22, 2009
  28. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    I love how ram fans never include the big 12 south in their big 12 discussions. They always bag on the north, yet they can't beat CU but they would win the north.

    So, I guess the MWC is tcu and utah.
     
  29. CsquaredCC

    CsquaredCC Well-Known Member

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    I actually did address the Big 12 South. I thought Utah would have lost in the Big 12 Championship game and I never stated nor do I believe that CSU would have won the North last season.

     
  30. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    "Last season" How about any season. You know what i'm talking about,i t doesn't need explained, you've seen the posts over there the last 5-6 years.
     

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